2015 Rules Package Announced

In general I think both seasons had races with good closing stages but the middle of races get kinda processional.

nas America was saying all these changes are being done in close concert with Goodyear so they can bring softer tires, which is why they made the cars slower. THAT is the good news. The racing lost a lot when tire strategy went away.
 
@Greg Today, the racing is all about the engineering and the aero, and passing on a restart to get clean air. If these changes are being made to help Goodyear bring grippy tires that wear, it will make for more passing. I see these changes as baby steps in the right direction. The one thing I don't like is the spacer, but that's probably a Band-Aid until they switch to smaller displacement. 725 HP will still be a lot to handle under acceleration.
 
you can run a much higher lift cam with rollers, and do more with your cam with roller lifters. GM for one has been putting roller lifters in their V8's for over 20 years. Surprised me that Nascar engines were running flat tappets..oh well, should have known they just changed from carbs to fuel injection that they outlawed in 58.


Its true that rollers have advantages over flat tappets but to my knowledge rpms are limited, it is surprising though that Nascar has stayed with the flat tappets, kind of out dated. some of the lost horsepower from the tapered spacers will be brought back with the rollers
 
@Greg Today, the racing is all about the engineering and the aero, and passing on a restart to get clean air. If these changes are being made to help Goodyear bring grippy tires that wear, it will make for more passing. I see these changes as baby steps in the right direction. The one thing I don't like is the spacer, but that's probably a Band-Aid until they switch to smaller displacement. 725 HP will still be a lot to handle under acceleration.


They even have trouble hooking up the power of the nationwide cars, lots of "loose off" on some tracks. I bet the reduced power will do little to slow the cars down. these guys always find ways to go faster with less
 
(note: long response post warning, lots of scrambled thoughts hopefully not to hard on a readers patience. My biased effort with its limitations at seeing the context )

I agree we will see a difference, but the positive momentum thing isn't worth the other losses imo.
I want over powered cars that demand and get the most rapid deacceleration into and acceleration off the corners. I realize losing tenths of a second is next impossible to see with the naked eye and I don't care about that point. But the deacceleration/ acceleration ratio is very apparent and it is something to fight for keeping.

And loosing that basic crude beauty would be a true loss. It does take skill to keep the momentum but it isn't as interesting as watching more overpowered cars that are struggling to work their way through the corners. I also think it is a more diverse type of racing with more strategic approaches than just maintaining momentum.

The more overpowered cars will have more trying to out dive a driver into the corner, and others who are quicker off the corners. Momentum racing is more unforgiving and conforming you can't try as many lines because getting out of sequence is to just costly, hence you are more regulated and less risk taking. Track position will matter more than ever.

In simple terms they will be more bland spec cars, than a pure beastly race car. You can even momentum drive a 1973 Pinto or Vega because you need more speed down the Hill to go up the next Hill. While something that has too much entry and exit speed is more pure as a race car.

I believe the new rules are just more band aids for 1.5mile cookie cutters, Michigan and California. An effort to turn them into mini RP tracks. It will make for more pack racing, and it might help those tracks. But I would not trade any of that for the lost power throughout the schedule. The cars will be less beastly at places like Martinsville, the road courses, Pocono etc, and I do think less power hurts these tracks.

Technology is a Heaven/Hell thing in racing. The raw brutal power and it's beauty is the allure. The thing gets our blood going, at least it should be in my mind, otherwise I have totally missed something huge. But we can no longer have unadulterated power Otherwise Indy Cars would be 250 + down the Indy straights, maybe the corners too and still obliterating drivers in the style of the 60's and 70's. Cup cars would probably do 240 at the current RP tracks and a flyer(s) would have already produced a Lemans type of tragedy.

Wisdom had to sadly deal with those power and speed issues, but that almost thankless task was a requirement not some pointless change. We now have the safest car we have ever had and I don't think the HP reduction in this case has a thing to do with that concern. Without that concern I just cannot see the value, and something wonderful is needlessly getting sacrificed.

I hope I am proven wrong, but it is hard to know, Nascar's muzzling system will force us to wait and see, and the comments from those in the loop have their limitations. We will just have to hope for the best, there are a lot variables and this grand experiment is here to play out like it or not. With all the variables it is probably a 50/50 thing.

The only sure thing is that racing is great with a lot of elusive qualities, and that we as fans will continue to nitpick.
If this does work, I still have plenty of ammo to keep the hate on Brian.

A long post which was WELL WORTH MY TIME! Excellent analysis. I agree completely. The cool thing is--and perhaps the saving grace in all of this--is that the builders will not stand pat. They will try to recover what has been lost (probably impossible to get it all, but they will try). The racing will change, but this is a dynamic situation. As it changes, so will the racing to a degree IMO. I think we have to see this as a fluid situation, and as the engineers and teams work to get back what has been lost/changed, advantages will be gained and lost. For me, this adds interest. Optimistic and anxious to see how my TRD people respond.
 
Won't the lower horsepower result in closer racing? That seems like a net positive. There are a lot of tracks where the cars get strung out and it becomes a snoozefest.
 
Is there an actual NASCAR engine spec. sheet on duration, valve lift, spring tension and seat angles not to mention overlap?????? I don't see the HP reduction as being a big problem but rear gear reduction could lead to some frustration. It will be interesting to see how all this plays out and we all know, boys will be boys and they will hunt for ways around the rules.
 
Won't the lower horsepower result in closer racing? That seems like a net positive. There are a lot of tracks where the cars get strung out and it becomes a snoozefest.

Actually lower horsepower only brings cars closer together if you take the downforce off. IndyCar has done an amazing job stripping the downforce off and keeping the power at a manageable level and the majority of their oval races have been fantastic since 2012.

If you go low horsepower, high downforce, driver ability no longer matters. You're actually starting to see that this year watching in-car cams of Nationwide races. You barely have to burp the throttle at Chicago, Kansas, Texas, etc... which makes the cars painfully easy to drive and impossible to pass (too much dirty air caused by high downforce cars in front.)

I think the best option would be to keep the high horsepower and strip the thing of all downforce but... do we really want these things running 220+ down the straightaways at Michigan and California? The corners would be great but that's getting pretty high.
 
I firmly believe this package will work if Goodyear creates a SOFT tire that can run for a whole stint without blowing.

Soft tires wear.
Worn tires cause grip issues.
43 cars with varied levels of grip = to passing. Just watch races in the early 90s
 
I firmly believe this package will work if Goodyear creates a SOFT tire that can run for a whole stint without blowing.

Soft tires wear.
Worn tires cause grip issues.
43 cars with varied levels of grip = to passing. Just watch races in the early 90s
Tires that don't wear out don't blow.
Worn out tires blow out.
 
2016 Rules Package already in the works-
Hearing that in 2016 Toyota will be the only manufacturer and all the teams will be required to use a completely stock car so Nascar decided on the Prius, this will cut down on noise, pollution and cautions but the races may take between 10 and 12 hours since the average speed will be about 30-35mph and they have to pit every hour to recharge the car which means there will be only one guy on the pit crew( The Plug Guy.)

Stay tuned for updates!!
 
Tires that don't wear out don't blow.
Worn out tires blow out.

"The key will be the tires. It always is. Tires that wear out during a run can produce solid racing. So come next year, we’ll probably be talking about the same thing: Will the tire produce great racing or has NASCAR just made a bunch of changes that have challenged Goodyear? And with less testing, it will be interesting to see how gains made during the season could also impact the performance of the tires."

If that were the case Bobby, they wouldn't be putting so much effort into tires.

Per the sporting news link:

http://www.sportingnews.com/nascar/...passing?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
 
Aside from getting a tire cut, tires wearing down to the cords cause tire failure.

""I'm not against that. And at the end of the day, if the cars really have a lot of give-up in them and they are abusing tires and wearing tires out, (then) that's going to create the best racing for us.” -Jimmie Johnson
 
Tires can be manufactured to wear and not blow. If that wasn't the case there wouldn't be such a push for them to develop that exact type of compound.
 
nas America was saying all these changes are being done in close concert with Goodyear so they can bring softer tires, which is why they made the cars slower. THAT is the good news. The racing lost a lot when tire strategy went away.
I don't think tire strategy has gone away at all. I don't know how many two tire pits I have seen this year to get track position. The opposite happened last week. Joey got 4 while some didn't get any (Harvick) and some got two. Joey drove around all of them because of his fresher tires and won the race.
 
@DalrJr

Seen @NASCAR released lots of info on rules and such for 2015. Good direction. Like a lot of what I'm seeing.

If Jr's happy, I'm happy :D

Eh, to be fair, I think most drivers are too scared to speak out. Last time a driver spoke out, they got hit with a pretty hefty fine.
 
the freakin tires are fine IMO, very few failures unless a team has the camber so fluuked up nothing could have survived. Teams aren't paying attention to goodyear's minimum pressures, abusing the hell out of the tires, screw all that, put a high safety factor in the design to cover all that and let it roll. Ain't no way a tire maker is going to design for the edge when they have no control over their product after it leaves their hands.
 
Eh, to be fair, I think most drivers are too scared to speak out. Last time a driver spoke out, they got hit with a pretty hefty fine.
they probably made sure Jr was happy and got his approval. He is about the only driver that can talk smack about Nascar, Jr nation and all that.:rolleyes:
 
nobody is probably going to be entirely happy with all the changes, gives me something to look forward to next year to see what happens.
 
So, what's to prevent a team from doing wind tunnel testing?
 
Its true that rollers have advantages over flat tappets but to my knowledge rpms are limited, it is surprising though that Nascar has stayed with the flat tappets, kind of out dated. some of the lost horsepower from the tapered spacers will be brought back with the rollers
Well, it's like SOT said, they just went to fuel injection two years ago for pete's sake.
 
The well funded teams will be wearing out their shaker rigs...the underfunded teams will be waiting for the lastest version of Xbox Nascar 2015.
 
I firmly believe this package will work if Goodyear creates a SOFT tire that can run for a whole stint without blowing.

Soft tires wear.
Worn tires cause grip issues.
43 cars with varied levels of grip = to passing. Just watch races in the early 90s

That's the key as far as I'm concerned. NASCAR is working closely with Goodyear to do just that. Clearly, this is just the beginning.
 
The well funded teams will be wearing out their shaker rigs...the underfunded teams will be waiting for the lastest version of Xbox Nascar 2015.

That's the biggest problem I see. Underfunded teams will be left in the dust. Perhaps going back to the days of 8 to 12 cars on the lead lap will make late tire strategy payoff.
 
I firmly believe this package will work if Goodyear creates a SOFT tire that can run for a whole stint without blowing.

Soft tires wear.
Worn tires cause grip issues.
43 cars with varied levels of grip = to passing. Just watch races in the early 90s

Tires were as hard as rocks back then. reducing the spoiler size and downforce will have more to do with that than tires on a 1.5. Short track? sure, tires make a difference. saw that last week.
 
I don't think tire strategy has gone away at all. I don't know how many two tire pits I have seen this year to get track position. The opposite happened last week. Joey got 4 while some didn't get any (Harvick) and some got two. Joey drove around all of them because of his fresher tires and won the race.

It's still slightly relevant on old tracks, but not at repaves where rock hard tires are the norm.
 
The only part I don't like about the new rules is the ban on all team testing. As other has stated, it'll leave the underfunded teams in the dust. I thought the point of all these rule changes was to even up the competition, not drive them further apart.
 
The only part I don't like about the new rules is the ban on all team testing. As other has stated, it'll leave the underfunded teams in the dust. I thought the point of all these rule changes was to even up the competition, not drive them further apart.
Because Phil Parsons Racing could afford to rent out race tracks for weeks on end before?
 
They at least had that option.
If NASCAR enforces the P6 penalty for ANY testing, even non-NASCAR tracks, then I think it's okay for small teams. The problem with the 2009-2012 testing ban was it was worse for smaller teams because it just raised the prices for renting the Milwaukee Mile and Texas World Speedway.
 
The well funded teams will be wearing out their shaker rigs...the underfunded teams will be waiting for the lastest version of Xbox Nascar 2015.

Pretty sure a shaker rig is cheaper than taking a half dozen cars, 50 employees, and all the "necessities" 2,000 miles to a track.
 
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