All About Winning

SlicedBread22

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So now Dale Jr and Harvick are virtual locks for the chase this year.

...but did anyone notice Penske team mates Brad Keselowski and Joey Logano, who both had a great race (starting 1-2 and finishing 3-4) seemed disappointed with their finishes?



Joey Logano lined up directly behind Kevin Harvick and followed him nose-to-tail around the track and across the line for the final restart. Logano was stalking the leader, looking for what he knew would be his only chance to win Sunday’s race at Phoenix International Raceway.
Logano aggressively darted inside of Harvick and briefly flirted with making it a three-wide race before he ran out of real estate. The move didn’t work, but he had to go for it.
Under NASCAR’s new emphasis on winning, there was little upside to Logano staying put.

“It’s all about the win, right?” said Logano, who was third on the final restart and settled for fourth. “Third place really doesn’t mean anything. Last year, you may have taken a third place and the points, but this year it’s like, ‘Hey, go for it.’

As Harvick celebrated with his new Stewart-Haas Racing teammates, he was greeted by owner Gene Haas, who seemed bewildered by the consequences of the win.

“The points aren’t nearly as important as the wins,” he said in an almost questioning tone. “We’re talking about the Chase already.”

Brad Keselowski, who has two third-place finishes and is a mere six points out of the Sprint Cup points lead, isn’t stoked about what he has left on the table.

“It feels good to run up front, be competitive, but under this system, wins are the only things that count,” he said. “Last year, you would have said seconds and thirds are great, but this year they’re not. They’re so-so. Just know we have to be a little bit better and move on from here.”

From HERE


So while many NASCAR fans have dreaded the revision of the points system. It seems to be creating a better reason for these drivers to go all out than ever before. Which I think means were about to see some great racing this season.

I don't know about you guys (or why this wont come off italics) but I think this attitude by the drivers will only intensify throughout the regular season as the races wind down and the wins become even more important.

Also I am aware this could have gone in the playoff changes thread.. once again.. thought it deserved its own. Now that we have some results and without 35 pages of complaints first. :)



"It feels good to run up front, be competitive, but under this system, wins are the only things that count. Last year you would have said seconds and thirds are great, but this year they're not."



 
I still hate it. If a team works hard all week, hard enough to earn a top-5 finish, they ought to have at least something to show for it. Fox didn't even show the points after the race on Sunday, that's how important they are now.
 
It's still about as real to me as fairies, unicorns, and ancient college football poll titles. Some fans will choose to believe in it and some will not. Guess which group I'm in.

For some reason IndyCar can manage the best on-track product of all series without some goofy stick-and-ball tournament replete with brackets and eliminations. Maybe that's sacrilege on this board but I'm just saying.
 
I wonder how long it'll be before we start to see frequent "questionable" and deliberate contacts between drivers.
 
I promise you we will not have more than 16 diff winners this year so points are still a factor. Remember, Jr would have won the championship last year on points, not wins, if this system were in effect. I don't agree with this system at all but it's what we have. Every driver & the fans know that the accomplishment of winning a cup title has been diminished so let's enjoy some racing.

My .02 - If this system was surrounded by only a 10 driver chase it would be much more interesting. Then it wouldn't be just 1 win & in. 2+ wins and good points days would actually matter.
 
Honestly, I don't care what the format is--it doesn't change anything for me. Drivers drive their asses off. They get momentum. Etc. etc. People said that Jimmie's Titles would be tainted because of the Chase. They aren't. You understand the rules. You run to maximize your performance. Nothing changes. BTW-- I don't agree that Jr. would have won last year with the new system. Everybody would have run differently. Apples to oranges.
 
I get the emphasis on winning, but that doesn't diminish what the 4 accomplished this weekend, and it sure as hell doesn't minimize what your Penske guys did. No question I would prefer my JGR/MWR guys to have that type of momentum and handle on the new package going into Vegas. No different than last year in this respect. You need to run well in any system, and the current cream is rising to the top just as it always does.
 
My .02 - If this system was surrounded by only a 10 driver chase it would be much more interesting. Then it wouldn't be just 1 win & in. 2+ wins and good points days would actually matter.
Great point. Having only 10 drivers in the Chase would make this a little more interesting. They could still do eliminations after every 3rd Chase race, just that they would eliminate two drivers per round instead of four. This would also pretty much require winning twice instead of once to virtually lock down a Chase berth.

Still doesn't validate the championship any more, but at least it would be more interesting. I doubt we'll ever see a 10 driver Chase again though, because Brian didn't like it too much when some of the sport's biggest stars weren't getting in under that format.
 
Eliminations have always been there. They were simply called 'points'. The only thing that has really changed is the final 'winner take all' event. Other than that and the 'win and you're in', nothing has really changed.
 
I don't get it . You think this will make Logano try harder to win?????? He hasn't been doing that before ???? Really?????
I think it will make anyone try harder.. maybe not even try harder.. but take more chances bc its not as big of a deal to lose a few spots.

Why is everything about Joey with you? ;)
 
I think it will make anyone try harder.. maybe not even try harder.. but take more chances bc its not as big of a deal to lose a few spots.

Why is everything about Joey with you? ;)

Just trying to put your comment in perspective . It's easy to say that it'll make 'all those other drivers' try harder , but then , I wonder 'which drivers ' does he mean ?
 
Would he be the only driver to win under 2 separate formats?
 
Just trying to put your comment in perspective . It's easy to say that it'll make 'all those other drivers' try harder , but then , I wonder 'which drivers ' does he mean ?
It just happened that Joey was in that position this race. If it were another driver then they probably would have done the same. It has no bearing on the point of this thread...
 
I promise you we will not have more than 16 diff winners this year so points are still a factor. Remember, Jr would have won the championship last year on points, not wins, if this system were in effect. I don't agree with this system at all but it's what we have. Every driver & the fans know that the accomplishment of winning a cup title has been diminished so let's enjoy some racing.

My .02 - If this system was surrounded by only a 10 driver chase it would be much more interesting. Then it wouldn't be just 1 win & in. 2+ wins and good points days would actually matter.

You really shouldnt speak for every driver and all fans. I couldnt disagree with you more. The Champion will have earned the title. Thats all you can ask in any Championship format in any sport or competition. As for the op, I like that when a guy is sitting in the top 5 late he will now be more willing to take chances to get that ever so important win. People act as if because JR and Harvick are virtual locks for the chase that they will just sit back for the remainder of the season. Wins always meant a lot and now they mean even more. These guys are competitors and they want to be in victory lane. On the other hand it is strange as a fan to see a guy get a top 5 ot 10 and not feel as satisfied with the day. However, it promotes guys needing to take chances and scramble to get to the front to position themselves for a chance to get that win. It definitely makes those late restarts interesting.
 
I'm just going to enjoy the races however the point system is joke because mainly imo the reset of points. Make winning more important? fine but a driver should get rewarded for leading the points after the regular season. Just because you had one more win doesn't mean you had the better season. Keep the system if you must. Not going to bitch all the time about something not changing but tweak it to make it worthwhile to be good in the regular season instead of getting 2 wins and being mediocre the rest of the season only to be the points leader going into the playoffs.

It makes no sense.
 
Like I've said before, if you don't like this Chase format, don't worry because the first time it produces a result that Brian France doesn't like (*cough* Jimmie winning another championship *cough*), he'll change it to something else. He's kinda like a 12-year old with an Xbox who hits the reset button every time the game doesn't go his way. But, it's his Xbox, so I guess we all have to deal with it.
 
Like I've said before, if you don't like this Chase format, don't worry because the first time it produces a result that Brian France doesn't like (*cough* Jimmie winning another championship *cough*), he'll change it to something else. He's kinda like a 12-year old with an Xbox who hits the reset button every time the game doesn't go his way. But, it's his Xbox, so I guess we all have to deal with it.
"Win and in" isn't helping TV ratings at all so far so you're probably right. The overnight rating for Phoenix is the lowest for the second race of the season in FOX's fourteen-year tenure so far.
 
I just think were going to see a lot more guys going for it at the end of races.

It's looking that way. Kyle went for it at DIS and lost a ton of spots and ended up wrecking. Nobody had anything for Harvick, but they tried. The attitude is changing for the better. This could get raw before the chase starts.
 
"Win and in" isn't helping TV ratings at all so far so you're probably right. The overnight rating for Phoenix is the lowest for the second race of the season in FOX's fourteen-year tenure so far.

I think the racing has to change and stay aggressive for some time before the ratings will rise. I like what I see so far. Hopefully it's just getting started. Wait until those chase drivers who used to get in without a win are still winless late in the regular season.
 
"Win and in" isn't helping TV ratings at all so far so you're probably right. The overnight rating for Phoenix is the lowest for the second race of the season in FOX's fourteen-year tenure so far.
Can't blame it on the rain or the Olympics this week.
 
This could turn out to be like rollerderby . Three or four teammates slingshot one of their guys to the front then block for him to get him a win . Be better if they were all girls though.:)
 
I think the racing has to change and stay aggressive for some time before the ratings will rise. I like what I see so far. Hopefully it's just getting started. Wait until those chase drivers who used to get in without a win are still winless late in the regular season.
Exactly.. every week it becomes more important to get that win or a second one even to guarantee entry. After that its balls out for the win because they have nothing to lose. More aggressive driving.. more aggressive setups.. more aggressive racing. Fine by me :)
 
I think the racing has to change and stay aggressive for some time before the ratings will rise. I like what I see so far. Hopefully it's just getting started. Wait until those chase drivers who used to get in without a win are still winless late in the regular season.
TV ratings had plateaued over the last few years. The last four years the race that followed the 500 earned either a 5.3 or 5.0 overnight rating, and now all of a sudden a drop to 4.8. Either NASCAR chased off fans again or this is some sort of anomaly.
 
I suppose it was also the 2014 Chase format that convinced Hamlin to cut the dogleg and try to overtake both Johnson and Keselowski on the last lap in this same race last year.
 
I'm just going to enjoy the races however the point system is joke because mainly imo the reset of points. Make winning more important? fine but a driver should get rewarded for leading the points after the regular season. Just because you had one more win doesn't mean you had the better season. Keep the system if you must. Not going to bitch all the time about something not changing but tweak it to make it worthwhile to be good in the regular season instead of getting 2 wins and being mediocre the rest of the season only to be the points leader going into the playoffs.

It makes no sense.

I agree with that. If you lead the points standings at the end of the season you should be rewarded. I think they will do that after this season. I would imagine there will be tweaks to the points system after its first season.
 
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