As if the Chase isn't already a joke; Tony's substitution takes it further

dpkimmel2001

dpkimmel2001

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Yeah, I know the rules. No need to explain it to me. I was born at night but it wasn't last night.

The whole deal of Chase Waivers is bad enough, in my eye's, but allowing Tony to still be Chase eligible after exiting the car this weekend makes even more of a mockery of the Chase.

So Ty is going to jump in the car during the first pit stop to finish the race for Tony. Yeah, I get it. If Tony is fragile enough that he can't even start this race, he shouldn't get credited for the results of this race. JMO
Oh, as I see it, this is the first I hate the Chase Thread since March of 2015. ;)
 
I'm just waiting patiently for Chase to make the ummm ... Chase.
 
Cool your own jets there @Acs.

I think that it's BS that a relief drivers win could gain a spot in the Chase for the driver that chose not to race. You don't have to agree with my opinion.

Of course Tony is never going to close this gap. That's not the point. The fact that it's able to happen is the issue as far as I'm concerned. It shouldn't even be a possibility, period.
 
But ... but ... but think of the storylines, dpk. The drama, the heart-tugging looks back at Tony's storied career, his injuries and his comeback from the depths of depression caused by his poor performances as he struggled to cope with the switch to Fords.

This is magical stuff. Daytime sports soap-opera. Appearances on Oprah and Dr. Phil to reveal the depth of Tony's unhealthy relationship with his pet pig. Stuff like that ...

I, for one, will be pulling hard for Ty Dillon this weekend. :rolleyes:
 
So what happens if Jimmie or someone else, already with a win, gets injured and has to sit out a few races? Are they still in The Chase?
 
BobbyFord said:
So what happens if Jimmie or someone else, already with a win, gets injured and has to sit out a few races? Are they still in The Chase?
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I could only guess that they are. It really doesn't seem to matter why anyone would sit out a race or races, everyone so far has remained Chase eligible.
 
aunty dive said:
But ... but ... but think of the storylines, dpk. The drama, the heart-tugging looks back at Tony's storied career, his injuries and his comeback from the depths of depression caused by his poor performances as he struggled to cope with the switch to Fords.

This is magical stuff. Daytime sports soap-opera. Appearances on Oprah and Dr. Phil to reveal the depth of Tony's unhealthy relationship with his pet pig. Stuff like that ...

I, for one, will be pulling hard for Ty Dillon this weekend. :rolleyes:
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Yep, a good headline..... That's for sure.
 
So were you all just as pissed when a driver could be subbed out and the replacement would have a good points day? Because back then that counted for a championship just as much as a win does now, only a good points run is a lot easier to achieve than a win. Good ol days right?
 
BobbyFord said:
So what happens if Jimmie or someone else, already with a win, gets injured and has to sit out a few races? Are they still in The Chase?
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As long as they can stay in the Top 30, I assume they're in the Chase.

As to Tony's situation, the Chase is BS anyway. This is just another corn kernel in the cow pie.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Every time I get an email from NASCAR I can't help but think it may just be my Chase Waiver. Hasn't happened yet but I still haven't ruled it out.
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Florida lottery's new 'BZF!' game. Scratch to reveal three matching NASCAR sponsor logos and get a Chase waiver for that series. Go on line and register your game piece ID number for the Second Chance drawing for a berth in the K&N finale.
 
I mean, I kinda am iffy on it cause of the fact he missed races...but had he not missed one and got out the car, and someone won it for him, I'd not have a problem with it as the rule has been for as long as I remember the one who starts the race, gets the credit of the win. Can't exactly remember right now who it was, but someone had got their first Nationwide Series win when I think, Denny Hamlin?? was the one in the car at the end of the race. The win credit went to the one who started it. So I'm guessing your problem @dpkimmel2001 is more or less to the fact he already missed races, and now won't even be finishing the one Sunday. Right?
 
Blaze88 said:
I mean, I kinda am iffy on it cause of the fact he missed races...but had he not missed one and got out the car, and someone won it for him, I'd not have a problem with it as the rule has been for as long as I remember the one who starts the race, gets the credit of the win. Can't exactly remember right now who it was, but someone had got their first Nationwide Series win when I think, Denny Hamlin?? was the one in the car at the end of the race. The win credit went to the one who started it. So I'm guessing your problem @dpkimmel2001 is more or less to the fact he already missed races, and now won't even be finishing the one Sunday. Right?
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Not even just that. I'm still looking for it but it was said before by NASCAR that you can't have a relief driver at Homestead behind the wheel win the Championship race. Why then could a relief driver earn you a spot in the Chase? They have mentioned this on NASCAR Radio today.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think there's a chance in heck that Tony is ever getting back into the top 30 anyhow but this should not even be a possibility.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Not even just that. I'm still looking for it but it was said before by NASCAR that you can't have a relief driver at Homestead behind the wheel win the Championship race. Why then could a relief driver earn you a spot in the Chase? They have mentioned this on NASCAR Radio today.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think there's a chance in heck that Tony is ever getting back into the top 30 anyhow but this should not even be a possibility.
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Yeah, the only rule I know about is Final 4 one. I mean, I sorta agree they should do something with that as it could be a bit messy. But yeah, Tony isn't Kyle so it's not really much of a chance he makes the Top 30, and he even has more races to do it in.
 
Probably a non-issue, as I doubt Tony will make it into the Top 30 in points by the time the checkers fly at Richmond in September. Hell, he only finished 28th last year starting all 36 races.
 
NASCAR has a great playoff system but they totally ruined its credibility when they let guys miss 6, 8, 10, 12 races and still get a Chase spot.

To me, it's the same as letting the Carolina Panthers only play 10 games and, if they go 7-3, they get a playoff spot and a 10-6 or 11-5 team doesn't.

And before someone says "Stop comparing it to stick and ball", NASCAR implemented a "Stick and ball" system so the comparisons apply.

That said, I don't think NASCAR had any room not to let Tony in after letting Kyle in last year. I think the collective media got it wrong when saying NASCAR was right to let Kyle in and wrong to let Tony in. It contributes to the inconsistency we all rail about.
 
ToyYoda said:
Probably a non-issue, as I doubt Tony will make it into the Top 30 in points by the time the checkers fly at Richmond in September. Hell, he only finished 28th last year starting all 36 races.
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Its' not that hard to make the top 30 in points missing a bunch of races. Kyle proved that last year -- and he would've still made it if he only won one race and finished top 20 in the others. Kyle and Gibbs had that whole thing figured out.

However, Tony has been a backmarker the past few years.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
NASCAR has a great playoff system but they totally ruined its credibility when they let guys miss 6, 8, 10, 12 races and still get a Chase spot.
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Great? I'll go with exciting. I mean, what elimination isn't when it comes to sports? I agree with you 1000% on the credibility side though. That doesn't seem to be all that important of a trait when it comes to a NASCAR Champion.
 
Nascar opened a bag of worms when they gave Busch a waiver. If a driver is already in the chase and stays high enough in the points then I guess the rules would be that as long as the points driver started then things would be OK. I have less of a problem like in Busch's case where it was because of a racing accident. However Tony's accident wasn't on a Nascar track so he shouldn't get one. I'm just thinking that since it was Tony and his supposed farewell year that it would hurt the attendance and sales if they didn't. Nascar will need to clarify their already messed up Chase rules.
 
oldgoat said:
Nascar opened a bag of worms when they gave Busch a waiver. If a driver is already in the chase and stays high enough in the points then I guess the rules would be that as long as the points driver started then things would be OK. I have less of a problem like in Busch's case where it was because of a racing accident. However Tony's accident wasn't on a Nascar track so he shouldn't get one. I'm just thinking that since it was Tony and his supposed farewell year that it would hurt the attendance and sales if they didn't. Nascar will need to clarify their already messed up Chase rules.
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NASCAR's Chase rules propped the back door open long before Kyle got his free pass. Anytime you see words like 'waiver' or 'at NASCAR's discretion' or 'actions unbecoming', you know someone is leaving themselves some wiggle room.
 
If we're being honest with ourselves, this whole argument has a very high percentage of being moot in a few months. I'd put Tony's chase chances at less than 20% right now, based strictly on performance.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
NASCAR has a great playoff system but they totally ruined its credibility when they let guys miss 6, 8, 10, 12 races and still get a Chase spot.

To me, it's the same as letting the Carolina Panthers only play 10 games and, if they go 7-3, they get a playoff spot and a 10-6 or 11-5 team doesn't.

And before someone says "Stop comparing it to stick and ball", NASCAR implemented a "Stick and ball" system so the comparisons apply.

That said, I don't think NASCAR had any room not to let Tony in after letting Kyle in last year. I think the collective media got it wrong when saying NASCAR was right to let Kyle in and wrong to let Tony in. It contributes to the inconsistency we all rail about.
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If the Jags won 7 games over 2 years I would let them in the playoffs with home field advantage.........:D
 
AdoubleU24 said:
If we're being honest with ourselves, this whole argument has a very high percentage of being moot in a few months. I'd put Tony's chase chances at less than 20% right now, based strictly on performance.
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True but it is the principal of the whole situation.
 
It's better than Ty winning for Tony and then revoking his win, contradicting a rule thats been in place since probably before I was born. At least they're being consistent.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
True but it is the principal of the whole situation.
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Exactly.

Use Earnhardt Jr as an example. Say something happens that causes a winless Earnhardt Jr to sit out the July Daytona race. He climbs in the car to take the green and then pits to have a relief driver take over the wheel. Somehow, someway that relief driver takes home the win at the end of the day. Is that something that should really make Earnhardt Jr. Chase eligible? Heck, I'm a huge Earnhardt Jr. fan and even I can see the injustice in that. It wouldn't be right. It shouldn't be a possibility.
 
I am doing my best not to think about this sort of thing right now and just enjoy the racing on a week to week basis. I will admit that I wince every time I see drivers that were a lap or 2 down magically appear back on the lead lap but I am biting my tongue as hard as I can.

It is not for me to say whether people should like the current chase format or not but I can say unequivocally that Nascar's method of crowning a champion is a disgrace and a complete joke. Other rules and procedures make a mockery of true competition which is very hard to take and IMO don't help retain current fans or attract new ones.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Exactly.

Use Earnhardt Jr as an example. Say something happens that causes a winless Earnhardt Jr to sit out the July Daytona race. He climbs in the car to take the green and then pits to have a relief driver take over the wheel. Somehow, someway that relief driver takes home the win at the end of the day. Is that something that should really make Earnhardt Jr. Chase eligible? Heck, I'm a huge Earnhardt Jr. fan and even I can see the injustice in that. It wouldn't be right. It shouldn't be a possibility.
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I agree 100%
 
I do not like the case either, but its better then the fae outcomes of the NFL to enable revenue sharing and 5 wild card teams in contention. Look at the steelers seahawks game in novemeber where the field goal kicker threw the ball to seattle twice.
 
Saw this somewhere else....won't this encourage marginal teams to sub-in relief drivers at the road courses? I suppose it was already possible before this announcement, but still adds to the ridiculousness of this playoff system.
 
^ You mean ... have your driver qualify and start the race, then get out and put a ringer in who manages to win the race, securing a Chase spot for your marginally talented driver?

Yeah ... that sounds plausible.
 
29-4 said:
Saw this somewhere else....won't this encourage marginal teams to sub-in relief drivers at the road courses? I suppose it was already possible before this announcement, but still adds to the ridiculousness of this playoff system.
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Never thought of that. Good point. It is entirely possible. Teams will exploit everything they can. It wouldn't surprise me.
 
Again, these substitution rules were in place a loooong time before the chase came along. Take it up with the ghost of Bill Sr or whoever made that rule instead of using it as an excuse to bash the chase and Brian France.
 
29-4 said:
Saw this somewhere else....won't this encourage marginal teams to sub-in relief drivers at the road courses? I suppose it was already possible before this announcement, but still adds to the ridiculousness of this playoff system.
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I heard BK Racing is hiring Montoya to sub for an "injured" David Ragan after the green at Sonoma this year. :D

The current Chase structure is ridiculous for so many reasons. A guy could win 35 races, finish 2nd at Homestead, and technically lose the "championship." Again, it's obviously not likely, but it's the principle of the matter.

Everyone knows the championship is no longer legitimate. It lost some credibility after '03, and all of it after '13.
 
Acs said:
Again, these substitution rules were in place a loooong time before the chase came along. Take it up with the ghost of Bill Sr or whoever made that rule instead of using it as an excuse to bash the chase and Brian France.
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I guess they could do something where they credit the person the win, but not a chase spot.....
 
The 2007 New England Patriots were probably one of the best NFL teams of all time. They went undefeated all the way up until the Super Bowl, but were upset by the Giants. In many sports it doesn't matter how great a season you had, if you cannot be the best on that crucial day then sorry. Somehow those fans manage to carry on without whining about "legitimate" champions.
 
Acs said:
The 2007 New England Patriots were probably one of the best NFL teams of all time. They went undefeated all the way up until the Super Bowl, but were upset by the Giants. In many sports it doesn't matter how great a season you had, if you cannot be the best on that crucial day then sorry. Somehow those fans manage to carry on without whining about "legitimate" champions.
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I could live with the first chase incarnation with 10 drivers in 10 races as it allowed for some bad luck without ruining your shot at the title. What Nascar has now is a lottery that negates the importance of the first 26 races and makes a mockery of things.
 
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