dale jr, never seen anyone lose more close races

hidesert cowboy

hidesert cowboy

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I like many around here am a dale jr fan. I have to admit I have NEVER seen a driver come so close and just fail to seal the deal like dale jr. Granted I don't think anyone could have held off harvick at the very end after the last restart. This has to be getting old. I personally would have door slammed harvick coming to the white when he got to the outside. create a craven busch moment again. I can look back and think of probably 8 wins that have slipped from jr's grasp for whatever reason in the last 3 years. 4 of them involve kevin harvick. dale jr vs harvick martinsville, dale jr runs out of gas final corner at charlotte harvick wins. this year at phoenix and again at darlington. beyond that hamlin beat him at homestead last year and JJ out ran him on 2 tires at dover. This has become something that almost seems mental. The number one problem dale jr has is restarts he had help last night and it just about won the thing for him. But the problem is when you almost always lose a couple spots on restarts everytime that is just too tuff to make up. He needs 4-5 laps to bring the car up to speed again. It just sucks Darlington is such a cool track and a win there is way better than a win just about anywhere else.
 
hidesert cowboy said:
I like many around here am a dale jr fan. I have to admit I have NEVER seen a driver come so close and just fail to seal the deal like dale jr. Granted I don't think anyone could have held off harvick at the very end after the last restart. This has to be getting old. I personally would have door slammed harvick coming to the white when he got to the outside. create a craven busch moment again. I can look back and think of probably 8 wins that have slipped from jr's grasp for whatever reason in the last 3 years. 4 of them involve kevin harvick. dale jr vs harvick martinsville, dale jr runs out of gas final corner at charlotte harvick wins. this year at phoenix and again at darlington. beyond that hamlin beat him at homestead last year and JJ out ran him on 2 tires at dover. This has become something that almost seems mental. The number one problem dale jr has is restarts he had help last night and it just about won the thing for him. But the problem is when you almost always lose a couple spots on restarts everytime that is just too tuff to make up. He needs 4-5 laps to bring the car up to speed again. It just sucks Darlington is such a cool track and a win there is way better than a win just about anywhere else.
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Nothing he could do. Harvick was much faster
 
before the last restart, that sealed the deal for harvick, i was looking forward to seeing how johnson and junior would race each other to the finish. actually wanted to see if jimmie would run clean. or not, because i'm convinced junior would have played fair, the complete opposite of what many of you believe his father was like.
 
Does anybody on the track really want to race Harvick as hard as they might race others ? Nobody gonna mess with the "bully Harvick"
Give the dude the best car on the track and the rest should just stay home IMO
 
DaBiff1618 said:
Nothing he could do. Harvick was much faster
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FLRacingFan said:
Nobody was beating Harvick last night. He restarted about 5th on the initial restart and made quick work of everyone in front of him.
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Pretty much. Even if Junior had taken the high line in 3 and 4 when they were coming to the white flag like he said he should have done, Harvick would have passed him. Harvick was quick on the bottom all race long, and his car was so fast that even if Junior had four fresh tires, it would have been difficult to hold him off. If anything, I just wish that Clint wouldn't have wrecked Kurt during that first G-W-C, because that would have been a heck of a run to the checkered flag. Oh well. Harvick and his team deserved the win.

There's nothing wrong with Junior. As a fan, I'm impressed that he's even been in position to win so many races this year. Seeing him come so agonizingly close time and time again is far better than seeing him running mid-pack and not having a shot at a victory at all.
 
In all fairness, Dale Jr hasn't needed a win since Feb. 23rd due to this "awesome" new points system. Really not much reason for him to go out of his way for a win right now.
 
ToyYoda said:
In all fairness, Dale Jr hasn't needed a win since Feb. 23rd due to this "awesome" new points system. Really not much reason for him to go out of his way for a win right now.
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umm ok its the southern 500 thats like not a big deal I guess. Dale jr should have done whatever it took to keep harvick behind him off 4 because 1 and 2 is a really tuff place to pass at. if he keeps harvick behind him, ie not along side I say he holds the lead again going back into 3 and 4 after the white, I would have door slammed harvick, I know they are friends but how bad do you want it. This race in and of itself isn't why I started this thread its because coupled with other races the ones that have slipped away for whatever reason are growing quite large in number.
 
hidesert cowboy said:
umm ok its the southern 500 thats like not a big deal I guess. Dale jr should have done whatever it took to keep harvick behind him off 4 because 1 and 2 is a really tuff place to pass at. if he keeps harvick behind him, ie not along side I say he holds the lead again going back into 3 and 4 after the white, I would have door slammed harvick, I know they are friends but how bad do you want it. This race in and of itself isn't why I started this thread its because coupled with other races the ones that have slipped away for whatever reason are growing quite large in number.
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Wanting it badly doesn't work in this case, he simply wasnt going to hold Harvick off regardless of desire.

Harvick blew by him like a car that was in a different class and he was, he could have taken him in 1 and 2 as well.

Not trying to troll you I am just curious, as a door slammer advocate why are you a Dale Jr fan? The two just seem to be incompatible imo.
 
Maybe Jr isnt that good of a driver. Been a merchandise cash cow for years and is horribly over rated. He wasnt top 5 material for most of the night, he got up there on tire strategy. Harvick had the winning car. We saw the same thing in the nationwide race that we saw Saturday night. 4 tires are much faster than 2. No way Jr holds him off.

lisa said:
Harvick had 4 tires, Jr only 2. He didn't stand a chance. What did you want Jr to do? Wreck Harvick?
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BUT THATS WHAT HIS DAD WOULDVE DONE :sarcasm:
 
Kyle18fan said:
Does anybody on the track really want to race Harvick as hard as they might race others ? Nobody gonna mess with the "bully Harvick"
Give the dude the best car on the track and the rest should just stay home IMO
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All the billy bad bravado doesn't equal speed, you either have speed, or you dont.

Consder Kurt Busch, he isnt physically intimidating, but he nor Kevin would take nothing off of each other.

Kyle he isnt a physical fighter type either, but he is an animal on the track.

Just my two cents, I am not even sure if I know what I mean.
 
hidesert cowboy said:
umm ok its the southern 500 thats like not a big deal I guess. Dale jr should have done whatever it took to keep harvick behind him off 4 because 1 and 2 is a really tuff place to pass at. if he keeps harvick behind him, ie not along side I say he holds the lead again going back into 3 and 4 after the white, I would have door slammed harvick, I know they are friends but how bad do you want it. This race in and of itself isn't why I started this thread its because coupled with other races the ones that have slipped away for whatever reason are growing quite large in number.
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Which races are you referring to specifically that Junior has voluntarily let slip away? At Dover last year, two tires and clean air beat four tires. He used his stuff up trying to pass Kenseth for second at Homestead, made one little mistake and never made up the ground he lost. He won Daytona. At Phoenix, Harvick was the class of the field. At Vegas, he ran out of gas momentarily coming out of turn 2. On Saturday night at Darlington, Harvick was the class of the field (along with Gordon), and Junior would still probably have stolen the win if not for Clint wrecking Kurt on the first G-W-C.

The only one of those close losses that you could claim that he gave away was Homestead. Even then, all it took was one little slip up, and I'm not so convinced that the race was his anyway, despite DW hyping it up like it was. Denny Hamlin and Matt Kenseth are two of the best in the business.

As @Greg and @lisa alluded to, what more do you want Junior to do? Start roughing everyone up and taking them out for wins? That's not how he conducts business and it's a huge reason why I'm a fan of his. He's smart enough to know how well that plan will go over with the rest of the boys once they get tired of being intentionally wrecked by him and decide to have at it, and he ends up with a wadded up race car every week.
 
Greg said:
All the billy bad bravado doesn't equal speed, you either have speed, or you dont.

Consder Kurt Busch, he isnt physically intimidating, but he nor Kevin would take nothing off of each other.

Kyle he isnt a physical fighter type either, but he is an animal on the track.

Just my two cents, I am not even sure if I know what I mean.
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I understand completely Greg, I wish that Kyle would have been up there to race for that win. It really wouldnt have mattered much though, the 4 was the class of the field
 
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I bet Jr wish he had another lap in him at the coke 600 a few years back & at Las Vegas this year.
 
Mr. Gregory said:
Which races are you referring to specifically that Junior has voluntarily let slip away? At Dover last year, two tires and clean air beat four tires. He used his stuff up trying to pass Kenseth for second at Homestead, made one little mistake and never made up the ground he lost. He won Daytona. At Phoenix, Harvick was the class of the field. At Vegas, he ran out of gas momentarily coming out of turn 2. On Saturday night at Darlington, Harvick was the class of the field (along with Gordon), and Junior would still probably have stolen the win if not for Clint wrecking Kurt on the first G-W-C.

The only one of those close losses that you could claim that he gave away was Homestead. Even then, all it took was one little slip up, and I'm not so convinced that the race was his anyway, despite DW hyping it up like it was. Denny Hamlin and Matt Kenseth are two of the best in the business.

As @Greg and @lisa alluded to, what more do you want Junior to do? Start roughing everyone up and taking them out for wins? That's not how he conducts business and it's a huge reason why I'm a fan of his. He's smart enough to know how well that plan will go over with the rest of the boys once they get tired of being intentionally wrecked by him and decide to have at it, and he ends up with a wadded up race car every week.
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you know there is always some reason or another, my point is for whatever reason there seems to be a reason why the wins don't happen. I went back and watched busch craven again. The tracked raced EXACTLY then that it did last night. The key is keeping the guy behind you off 4 by whatever means necessary. trying to pass in 1 and 2 means someone is probably going to wreck. The same thing was going on back then craven was quite a bit faster in that race just like harvick. JR made a huge mistake leaving the outside open coming to the white, if jr keeps harvick behind off 4 by blocking or whatever he holds the lead until they get back to 3 and 4 coming to the checkers. I know thats a tall order but it should have been the attempted plan.

It seems like the last few years the drivers racing for wins are avoiding contact. I am not saying wreck a guy to win, but a busch craven finish could have been last night too.
 
hidesert cowboy said:
I like many around here am a dale jr fan. I have to admit I have NEVER seen a driver come so close and just fail to seal the deal like dale jr. Granted I don't think anyone could have held off harvick at the very end after the last restart. This has to be getting old. I personally would have door slammed harvick coming to the white when he got to the outside. create a craven busch moment again. I can look back and think of probably 8 wins that have slipped from jr's grasp for whatever reason in the last 3 years. 4 of them involve kevin harvick. dale jr vs harvick martinsville, dale jr runs out of gas final corner at charlotte harvick wins. this year at phoenix and again at darlington. beyond that hamlin beat him at homestead last year and JJ out ran him on 2 tires at dover. This has become something that almost seems mental. The number one problem dale jr has is restarts he had help last night and it just about won the thing for him. But the problem is when you almost always lose a couple spots on restarts everytime that is just too tuff to make up. He needs 4-5 laps to bring the car up to speed again. It just sucks Darlington is such a cool track and a win there is way better than a win just about anywhere else.
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I've never seen anyone win more close races than Kevin Harvick and I've lost count on how many times he's miracled wins. There's a reason they call him The Closer.
 
hidesert cowboy said:
you know there is always some reason or another, my point is for whatever reason there seems to be a reason why the wins don't happen...

...It seems like the last few years the drivers racing for wins are avoiding contact. I am not saying wreck a guy to win, but a busch craven finish could have been last night too.
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Things were a little different then. I would argue that the whole "boys have at it" era pretty much killed the possibility of seeing another finish like that. The risk of retaliation is just too high.

I wish Junior could have won more of those races too, believe me, but most of those times I brought up, there just wasn't much else he could do. As someone else may have pointed out, in most of them, he had a good car but not necessarily a dominant car, which forced the team to use strategy to try to put themselves in a position to win. Sometimes strategy works out and sometimes it just doesn't. It almost worked out on Saturday night, but it didn't. That's just the way it goes.

Our boy does run hard every week and you can tell just from watching his interviews that he wants it just as bad as everyone else, if not more. There isn't much more that I can ask for as a fan. Obviously you feel differently and we'll just have to agree to disagree. :cheers:
 
I know that it's not politically correct to say it any more . And please don't hate me for saying it . But second in this league is pretty damn good on any weekend , let alone Darlington . There were forty-one one other drivers out there that were unable to do it . Some of them were very talented . I even remember some races where Dale Sr. 'settled ' for second . Just sayin.
 
I used to watch Rusty and SR battle on sunday...I used to get soooooooo mad at the cautions that seemed to always fall when SR needed it. I think NASCAR has its favorites. I respect SR and enjoyed watching him race but man those cautions!
 
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