Make Xfinity Great Again

There's an influx of young talent coming through the ranks that should make this series good. I think owners will focus more on young talent and keep the cup guys out
 
There is one thing Mr. Penske alluded to and that is they race Xfinity at the
assistance of the sponsor. In other words to get sponsorship for a young Blaney
they had to run either Brad or Joey. We know Penske plays a part in Brad being able to run a truck team, same as Kyle is supported running his truck team.

Some where along the line the price of driver and car got so big that those who fund them now call the shots and write the contracts.
 
Nobody said Carl's efforts weren't admirable, but at no time was he competitive. Clearing out the Cup drivers to make room for the Carl Longs isn't going to save Xfinity. He wasn't competing with the few full-time X teams.

Look at ARCA. Rarely do Cup drivers compete in their events when the series are running together. There's still a huge gap between their haves and have-nots.
 
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RacerrecaR said:
He would have been more competitive had the big budget Cup teams not been in the series, which is basically what this entire topic is about.
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Teams not that much better than Carl Long's hung around long enough and were given a charter so sometimes perseverance pays off.
 
Revman said:
So then both series would be dead, and we would be left with only Cup. Fine, I guess, but I kind of like to get warmed up with the support races.
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Both series are dead already it is just that to this point no one had told you.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Nobody said Carl's efforts weren't admirable, but at no time was he competitive. Clearing out the Cup drivers to make room for the Carl Longs isn't going to save Xfinity. He wasn't competing with the few full-time X teams.

Look at ARCA. Rarely do Cup drivers compete in their events when the series are running together. There's still a huge gap between their haves and have-nots.
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There is a huge gap between the top 5 Cup teams and the second 5 and then another big gap between the second group of 5 and the third group of 5. After the top 15 you fall into a black hole of wannabes and back markers.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
There is a huge gap between the top 5 Cup teams and the second 5 and then another big gap between the second group of 5 and the third group of 5. After the top 15 you fall into a black hole of wannabes and back markers.
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That is the situation in every other race series on the planet ... amateur and professional.

It's the nature of the game, like it or not.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
All the people who seem to be fine with Xfinity all have one thing in common it seems.
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There are all kinds of reasons for the dismal state of the B series. If you're including me in your ongoing condemnation of a certain group of people here rather than dealing with their posts, I'd suggest that you don't.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
Teams not that much better than Carl Long's hung around long enough and were given a charter so sometimes perseverance pays off.
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Which of the chartered Cup teams are you referring to?

Mr. Long has turned over 11,000 laps in the 3 NASCAR series. To date, he has led 1 lap.
 
aunty dive said:
Which of the chartered Cup teams are you referring to?

Mr. Long has turned over 11,000 laps in the 3 NASCAR series. To date, he has led 1 lap.
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IDK who the owners are of cars that people like Jeffrey Earnhardt drive for but you get my drift.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
All the people who seem to be fine with Xfinity all have one thing in common it seems.
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Oh, I'm not fine with it. I just don't see the solution being kicking out the Cup drivers or Cup-owned teams.

Whoever fills the resulting vacuum isn't going to improve the level of competition. Sponsors who supported those departed teams aren't going to automatically flock to lesser outfits. They're more likely to leave the sport entirely than hook up with someone their target demographics haven't heard of.

What's the solution? First we have to agree on what the problems are. Before we can do that, we have to agree on what we want this series to be. We also have to recognize that what we want and what NASCAR wants may not be the same thing. Right or wrong, it's evolved into more of a developmental series than it was back in its glory days.
 
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Skoalbandit33 said:
IDK who the owners are of cars that people like Jeffrey Earnhardt drive for but you get my drift.
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Yes, I get your drift ... confirm your position with facts that support it.

The facts are thus ... Archie St. Hiliare's Cup team does not have a Charter. And ... his team is neither better nor worse than any or all of Carl Long's teams.
 
aunty dive said:
There are all kinds of reasons for the dismal state of the B series. If you're including me in your ongoing condemnation of a certain group of people here rather than dealing with their posts, I'd suggest that you don't.
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Andy can correct me if I am wrong but I think he was referring to Shrub's fanbois being the main driver of the X series as they believe an X and Truck win are equal to that of a cup win and that championships are not important well at least until Shrub won the lottery last year.

Regarding X and Trucks both series seem and an amalgamation of the 2 makes sense to me in order to concentrate money and talent however Nascar could very well be pleased at the current state of each lower series.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Oh, I'm not fine with it. I just don't see the solution being kicking out the Cup drivers or Cup-owned teams.

Whoever fills the resulting vacuum isn't going to improve the level of competition. Sponsors who supported those departed teams aren't going to automatically flock to lesser outfits. They're more likely to leave the sport entirely than hook up with someone their target demographics haven't heard of.

What's the solution? First we have to agree on what the problems are. Before we can do that, we have to agree on what we want this series to be.
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It appears to me that Nascar has a glut of product and 2 lesser series that people are not beating the doors down to support so would banning cup drivers be the death knell or would it lead a path back to relevance and something people wanted to see? IDK but whatever is taking place in X and Trucks doesn't seem to be working.
 
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aunty dive said:
Yes, I get your drift ... confirm your position with facts that support it.

The facts are thus ... Archie St. Hiliare's Cup team does not have a Charter. And ... his team is neither better nor worse than any or all of Carl Long's teams.
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The point is that there were some very poor cup teams that hung around long enough and received a charter.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
Andy can correct me if I am wrong but I think he was referring to Shrub's fanbois being the main driver of the X series as they believe an X and Truck win are equal to that of a cup win and that championships are not important well at least until Shrub won the lottery last year.

Regarding X and Trucks both series seem and an amalgamation of the 2 makes sense to me in order to concentrate money and talent however Nascar could very well be pleased at the current state of each lower series.
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I'd like to see the Trucks as more like golf's Seniors / Champions tour, a series for the guys who want to keep running but don't want the pressure of a schedule with 38 3-day weekends filled in with an assortment of test dates. Put in some cost saving measures - make all events have practice, Q, and racing on the same day; maybe even consider a true, IROC-style spec series. Heck, partner them on some weekends with the IMSA cars. Run 'em on dirt more often; I'm sure the manufacturers would eat that up. Keep them on courses where they can beat and bang; to me, that's always been a hallmark of this series, part of the identity that separated it from the other two national series. Maybe base the championship solely on who has the most wins.
 
aunty dive said:
I'll ask again ... which teams are you referring to?
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Any team that normally finished laps down and/or was considered a back marker for whatever time period needed to be given a charter. IDK who the owners are but cars like the one David Ragan drives plus Eggs Benedict, Clint Bowyer and whatever car Tommy Baldwin owns. They persevered and were rewarded for it and some may have even started out as start and park operations.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
Any team that normally finished laps down and/or was considered a back marker for whatever time period needed to be given a charter. IDK who the owners are but cars like the one David Ragan drives plus Eggs Benedict, Clint Bowyer and whatever car Tommy Baldwin owns. They persevered and were rewarded for it and some may have even started out as start and park operations.
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None of those teams ever came close to approaching Mr. Long's performance record.
 
How many teams participate in the 3 NASCAR series? I think there are a lot of teams. The drivers coming up or going down in their careers have more options that other series.
 
aunty dive said:
None of those teams ever came close to approaching Mr. Long's performance record.
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I said that teams that weren't much better than Carl Long's team but regardless some pretty awful teams were rewarded with charters just for sticking around long enough.
 
There's been some good races on the cup side this year but anyone who has watched the truck races has to agree that the truck series has been the **** this year, most if not all races has had the absence of cup drivers. A lot of guys making s name for themselves there and it's fun as hell to watch.


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Trucks should race like trucks and on tracks that will support them. Trucks are not race cars so get them up off the ground and let them look similar to what you can buy at the dealer. I think they should all be regular 4x4 and run on tracks 3/4 mile or less with tires that have threads.
 
The problem with Xfin is that it has steadily lost its identity and become a watered down, boring version of Cup. You have the same teams as Cup: Gibbs, HMS/JRM, Penske, Roush, RCR, and Ganassi, with some backmarker non-Cup teams mixed in that can barely even attract sponsorship. Who is the most competitive non-Cup team/driver...Ross Chastain, Jeremy Clements, Blake Koch, JJ Yeley? Guys that are lucky to even sniff the top 15. They just simply can't compete anymore since the gap has widened to an alarming difference and operating costs have soared through the roof.

You won't see Bill Baumgardner or Greg Pollex fielding championship caliber teams that are capable of beating the Cup guys. You won't see an old timer like Johnny Rumley winning at Dover or David Gilliland's makeshift team stealing a win at Kentucky or some kid named Matt Kenseth driving an unsponsored car for Robbie Reiser beating Tony Stewart for his first win. No more Bobby Labontes or Buckshot Joneses or Jason Kellers or Steve Grissoms winning races in their family owned entries. Memories of Dick Trickle winning at Hickory, Tim Fedewa and Curtis Markham and Andy Santerre winning at tracks like South Boston and Nazareth and Milwaukee. The Randy Lajoies and Mike McLaughlins and David Greens of the series running with Cup guys like Mark Martin and Dale Jarrett and holding their own.

I won't criticize the Truck Series too much because despite a few issues (mainly the tracks/schedule and caution clock) they still put on a good show almost every race. And the Cup Series isn't what it once was either, but has improved quite a bit over the last five years and still has a very promising future. But Xfin? It's been garbage for years. It's too stale, too predictable, too boring. The competition is weak and uninspiring. Quite simply, the Xfinity Series should be much better.
 
JimmieGordon2448 said:
There's an influx of young talent coming through the ranks that should make this series good. I think owners will focus more on young talent and keep the cup guys out
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Only if those guys come with sponsorship or big check books, if not, then the Cup drivers will stay.
 
The problem isn't the cup guys the problem is the equipment disparity and the brick cars that promote awful spread out racing. Even Iowa without cup guys was a snoozer. And let's be honest, as long as Toyota keeps winning some fans will whine whether it's Busch or not. Should've gone on Reddit and seen the bellyaching when jones won lol
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Not really. A lot of people have problems with Cup drivers in Xfinity, regardless of who they are. It's Kyle Busch fans who defend the current state of the series.
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That's BS man, and I think you know that. The bitching when the other Cuppers win almost nonexistent. They freakin' laugh about it on NASCAR Radio.
Kyle Busch fans defend his participation because we like to see him wheel everything. You know, fanboi stuff. Go Harvick.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I'd like to see the Trucks as more like golf's Seniors / Champions tour, a series for the guys who want to keep running but don't want the pressure of a schedule with 38 3-day weekends filled in with an assortment of test dates. Put in some cost saving measures - make all events have practice, Q, and racing on the same day; maybe even consider a true, IROC-style spec series. Heck, partner them on some weekends with the IMSA cars. Run 'em on dirt more often; I'm sure the manufacturers would eat that up. Keep them on courses where they can beat and bang; to me, that's always been a hallmark of this series, part of the identity that separated it from the other two national series. Maybe base the championship solely on who has the most wins.
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Completely agree with this. The Truck series should be full of the Mark Martin and DW types along with the 16 year olds. It would be old vs young and everything could happen on the shorter tracks and dirt tracks. Throw in the Glen and make Charlotte the only track that is not a short track. Get rid of the restrictor plate races or make them non-points events so the old guys can have the option of having a replacement driver.
 
I was never a fan of Mark Martin ( I did however liked watching him race) but was really disappointed when he did NOT race trucks upon his retirement. I think truck racing was
best when they had old timers teaching the young up and comers.
 
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