Nascar = too much power in their hands

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RobbyG Fan

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We dont know who the champion is yet. It depends on a judgement call that Nascar has to make. So in essence, Nascar will determine who the champion is, not the drivers and their teams.

Complete bull$hit!

Nascar has way too much power on their hands. This is a huge problem. It will destroy Nascar from the inside with credibility issues. There are too many grey areas in the rules.
 
Note: I could care less who wins the championship. I like all three drivers who were in the chase. I just dont like the fact that the championship will be decided by Nascar.
 
the rule is: you cannot pass or pull up to the left on a restart, but I don't blame ted, it looked like 16 spun the tires
 
Sorry, but Ted Musgrave made this decision. He made the decision to jump out of line and go left on the restart.

If NASCAR didn't black-flag him, then you would be hearing the complaint from the other side that NASCAR was afraid to make the right call because it would affect the championship.
 
Originally posted by steveluvs3@Nov 14 2003, 04:33 PM
the rule is: you cannot pass or pull up to the left on a restart, but I don't blame ted, it looked like 16 spun the tires
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Which is no different that what Brian Vickers did in the race at Texas. If he had not been penalized in that race, just think of what the Busch points race would be going in to this weekend. ;)
 
Originally posted by majestyx+Nov 14 2003, 05:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (majestyx @ Nov 14 2003, 05:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--steveluvs3@Nov 14 2003, 04:33 PM
the rule is: you cannot pass or pull up to the left on a restart, but I don't blame ted, it looked like 16 spun the tires
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Which is no different that what Brian Vickers did in the race at Texas. If he had not been penalized in that race, just think of what the Busch points race would be going in to this weekend. ;) [/b][/quote]
just what i said in another thread
 
Never thought I would be agreeing with Nascar but Ted was in the wrong. He was fighting for a championship and that move just cost him the championship.
 
Doesnt matter. I expect major repercussions from this. Im sure the Dodge camp is upset. The #1 team is upset. I wouldnt be surprised if this gets appealed. One has to wonder if this will also happen tomorrow. Bottom line is Nascar has too much power.
 
Of course Nascar has too much power but if he wasn't black flagged don't you think the other teams would be complaining.
 
It was a strange ending. But Musgrave made a choice and it cost him. I dout much of anythig will come out of it. He may as well start planning for 2004.
 
1 - This is not appealable. Calls that happen within the course of a race are "ball and strike" calls and can not be appealed.

2 - While Dodge will be disappointed in not winning the championship, GM would be just as disappointed (and mad) if the call where not made.

As to NASCAR having to much power, just who is supposed to enforce the rules? This is no different than any other sport. The decision of the officials often impact the outcome. If the officials aren't in charge of the rules, who will be?
 
Hmmm, NASCAR has too much power? I think the name of the series should tell you who and where the power is. Besides, this is nothing new and the power is what has brought this sport from the time when RJR gave tickets away to races, to what we have today, people having hard times getting tickets to some of the races. BTW, RJ Reynolds quit giving tickets away to it's employees many years ago.

Just remember, this is NASCAR, not just racing.
 
Don't know why some people think this was BS call, it was pretty flagrant if you ask me. Musgrave clearly made the move to pass before the line, actually was almost even with Setzer at the start finish, he screwed up and it cost him the championship. Rules are there for a reason,in this case the 1 clearly violated ther restart rule! Oh by the way Ted is my favorite driver in the CTS , so i'm not playing favorites here.
 
My cable went out, but I did end up seeing the end of the race today, as well as a replay of the restart. It was pretty clear to me that Ted did pull out to the left, despite his claim that he was trying to avoid a wreck. The rule is VERY clear, and CTS has made NO changes to the rules all season (unlike WCS which seems to change from week to week).
 
I posted these thoughts in another thread, but guess they should be here.

I feel bad for Ted, but Brian got screwed by that same rule at Texas this year.
Travis didn't spin his wheels and cause that back up on the restart. If you watch the replays you can see he was tight to the truck in front of him.
Also, if you listened to the interviews after with Andy Houston he said he was having trouble with his shifter and his carburator booged.
So as much as Ted was calling Travis a cheater, it was his own team mate that caused the back up.
Anyone catch what trucks brought out the cautions? 3 cautions, 3 Smith trucks, his extra trucks by the way.

I'm not sure either about rooting for a vehicle make, I cheer for drivers no matter what they drive. I even cheer for drivers that I do not like their owners. I've owned all the makes, and have had good ones and bad ones from all of them
 
Ted was clearly passing the 46 at the flag.
If your a champion you know the rules. Ted blew it big time & has no one to blame but himself.

Maybe if Ted was trying to loose ground on the inside at the flagstand instead of gaining na$car would have not black flagged him.
 
If Ted was trying to avoid a wreck wouldn't it have been in his interest to pull back and least not just be beside the truck. At least then maybe he could have had a arguement that he pulled out but didn't try to advance. I like Ted and hope his wife and him beat the cancer, but Nascar does have the rule and needs to enforce it. Otherwise the Chevy camp would have had the same complaint.
 
Originally posted by RobbyG Fan@Nov 14 2003, 10:24 PM
We dont know who the champion is yet.&nbsp; It depends on a judgement call that Nascar has to make.&nbsp; So in essence, Nascar will determine who the champion is, not the drivers and their teams.

Complete bull$hit!

Nascar has way too much power on their hands.&nbsp; This is a huge problem.&nbsp; It will destroy Nascar from the inside with credibility issues.&nbsp; There are too many grey areas in the rules.
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NASCAR has too much power ??? ANd it is a huge problem? A hugh problem for who ??

And if the problem is huge, what is an acceptable solution ??
Since NASCAR is a privately held entity, who should have the power ?? The car owners ?? The drivers ??

As for credibility, NASCAR is more responsive and aware today than it was last year. And last year they were more responsive and aware than the year before.

There are times when decisions made by NASCAR might be questioned, but NASCAR has responded in a way to improve thier credibility in all areas of concern. The drivers and the team owners know this and openly say so.

In this instance, Musgrave obviously violated the rules. NASCAR made a decision in keeping with the same decision they made with Vickers. That is a sign of fairness, not a sign of having too much power or lacking credibility.
 
Musgrave Did not pass Prior to the Green Flag and he should not be penalized! Pure and Simple! Musgrave was hosed just the same way that Vickers was Hosed in his incident! Nascar Mafia is still alive and Kicking!
 
Musgrave was in the ACT of pass, and therefore he did deserve the blackflag.
 
Whizzer, that's exactly what I was trying to say. While we might not like everything that comes from NASCAR, they are the sole ruler of the series and that's that. Yes, some of their rules are in flux, but for the most point, the owners, drivers and crews know what to expect. I didn't see Ted's move, nor did I see Brian's move earlier this year, but they seem to be exactly the same. Everything is subjective in this sport just like the other sports when it comes right down to the rules. Someone has got to make a decision and when that happens, someone will be happy and someone will be mad. That's life. Flyboy, ya gotta git over it! :)
 
Originally posted by nascar20@Nov 15 2003, 06:06 PM
Musgrave was in the ACT of pass, and therefore he did deserve the blackflag.
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By that logic, if that had been a race to the checkered flag for first, Musgrave should have been awarded the victory, because he was in the "Act of Winning." :rolleyes: I think that that so-called explanation originated as justification after the fact. It was a b.s. call at Texas, and it was a b.s. call yesterday. But at least it was consistent b.s..
 
Thank you Stridsberry!!! You all know..... this is racing.......its not parking your car in a parking lot. Its all about passing cars or trucks in this case and no pass was made! Nascar continually tries to affect outcomes of these races and championships! Its not right!
 
Originally posted by stridsberry+Nov 15 2003, 08:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (stridsberry @ Nov 15 2003, 08:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--nascar20@Nov 15 2003, 06:06 PM
Musgrave was in the ACT of pass, and therefore he did deserve the blackflag.
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By that logic, if that had been a race to the checkered flag for first, Musgrave should have been awarded the victory, because he was in the "Act of Winning." :rolleyes: I think that that so-called explanation originated as justification after the fact. It was a b.s. call at Texas, and it was a b.s. call yesterday. But at least it was consistent b.s.. [/b][/quote]
It wasn't a race to the checkered flag now was it, so lets all move on. :)
 
At least Nascar showed some consistency. If they had not this would become another gray area and I would think most everyone can agree that there is enough gray areas as it is.
:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
 
I don't think nascar has too much power. At least Nascar makes a decision and sticks with it. In my opinion they do a great job of making things fair.

Also one of the best things about racing is that drivers are paid for performance. There's more at stake and the competition is very intense. The drivers actually care about the fans and the sport unlike all the other me, me, me sports. I'm sick of players getting millions of dollars, not playing hard and still complain about not making enough money.

Ted did what he had to do, it just didn't work out. That's the great thing about such stiff competition. It's awesome for the fans. Nascar always has controversy, it's not necessarily a bad thing.

Just my opinion
 
Originally posted by rajflyboy@Nov 16 2003, 02:40 AM
Thank you Stridsberry!!! You all know..... this is racing.......its not parking your car in a parking lot. Its all about passing cars or trucks in this case and no pass was made! Nascar continually tries to affect outcomes of these races and championships! Its not right!
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The term "in the act of passing" is absolutely the same as an intended pass.

Musgrave pulled out of line and although he did not pass, he had momentum, thereby gaining an unfair advantage on the other competitors.

Call it what you will, but place the blame where it legitimately belongs.
In this situation, NASCAR, did NOT try to affect the outcome of the race.
NASCAR did NOT try to affect the outcome of championship.

Ted Musgrave did. He got caught. He paid a very high price.
 
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