Nationwide race @ Darlington

Gordon_Fan24 said:
Ok guys...just to define what a "bandwagon" is...this is fans that follow whoever is winning...two years ago they might have been a Kez fan, than suddenly, last year they were back to being a JJ fan...etc...

There is a difference in this and a rookie building a fan base. I have been a Gordon fan since I was 12 years old.....but I am liking some of these rookies as well....you can like more than one driver...gasp!
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I'm new to this!

Wasn't sure if I was a two-timing whore or what.. lolol
 
one of the better moves of the race was Larson booting the backmarker 17 out of the way. I didn't think Larson would do that in these days of being a politically correct race car driver
 
StandOnIt said:
one of the better moves of the race was Larson booting the backmarker 17 out of the way. I didn't think Larson would do that in these days of being a politically correct race car driver
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At the least, the 17 spotter should have told him to gtfo of Larson's way. Especially that late in the race. Larson bumped him twice and he still didnt get the idea. Any driver would have done the same. I hope o_O
 
BobbyFord said:
It was a great race and it's really good to be a NASCAR fan and see the fast, fresh drivers come up and show that they're capable of winning races but I'm not going to sit back and be ok with stupid posts about Kyle being finished in the Nationwide Series because some fresh, young talent have won a couple races. Kyle Busch has 65 Nationwide wins. He's far from his last win in the Nationwide Series. I do cheer for the Elliott and Larson, because they seem to be the only new drivers in the Nationwide Series that really have the ability to run with Kyle and the other Cup drivers.
In another thread we argued whether Jimmie was the best driver or not. Best current Cup driver with the best team? Arguably so. Best driver, not so much. Jimmie is fast in a Cup car with Chad Knauss as the crew chief; period. Jimmie isn't so fast in other cars without his Cup team. Trucks, no. Nationwide, no. Many posters here think that it's a cakewalk to win a Nationwide race and many question Kyle Busch's ability to drive. If you take into consideration the ability to competitively drive different cars that require different techniques to go fast, then Kyle is currently the best in NASCAR across the three series.
If you simply want to talk about Cup, then Jimmie, Chad and the HMS team are the ones to beat.
That doesn't mean that Kyle's accomplishments in NASCAR are any less impressive or meaningful than what Jimmie has accomplished. To me, it means that JJ is a one dimensional driver with a great Cup team.
If you consider what it means to be a great driver, then you have to consider the skill necessary to win, no matter what you're driving.
If you look at the big picture of what it means to be a great driver, then you can easily recognize that Tony Stewart (2011, 2005, 2002 NASCAR Sprint Cup Series Champion,1997 Indy Racing League Champion,1995 USAC Triple Crown Champion,1994 USAC National Midget Series Champion, 2006 IROC champion, 2005, 2007 Brickyard 400 Winner, 2009 Sprint All-Star Race winner, 2001, 2002, 2007 Budweiser Shootout Winner, 2006, 2008, 2009 Prelude to the Dream Winner, 2005, 2007, 2012 Gatorade Duel Winner, 2000 Turkey Night Grand Prix Winner, 2002, 2007 Chili Bowl Winner) is a far more accomplished driver than is Jimmie Johnson.
Granted, I recognize that this is a NASCAR forum, but I also recognize the necessary talent needed to accomplish what Kyle Busch has accomplished in NASCAR.
It pisses me off when people downplay talents that they themselves lack.
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You owe me money for reading that whole thing. lol
 
ChexOrWrex said:
At the least, the 17 spotter should have told him to gtfo of Larson's way. Especially that late in the race. Larson bumped him twice and he still didnt get the idea. Any driver would have done the same. I hope o_O
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apparently not that guy eh? Wonder if he will get out of Larson's way next week?
 
BobbyFord said:
It was a great race and it's really good to be a NASCAR fan and see the fast, fresh drivers come up and show that they're capable of winning races but I'm not going to sit back and be ok with stupid posts about Kyle being finished in the Nationwide Series because some fresh, young talent have won a couple races. Kyle Busch has 65 Nationwide wins. He's far from his last win in the Nationwide Series. I do cheer for the Elliott and Larson, because they seem to be the only new drivers in the Nationwide Series that really have the ability to run with Kyle and the other Cup drivers.
In another thread we argued whether Jimmie was the best driver or not. Best current Cup driver with the best team? Arguably so. Best driver, not so much. Jimmie is fast in a Cup car with Chad Knauss as the crew chief; period. Jimmie isn't so fast in other cars without his Cup team. Trucks, no. Nationwide, no. Many posters here think that it's a cakewalk to win a Nationwide race and many question Kyle Busch's ability to drive. If you take into consideration the ability to competitively drive different cars that require different techniques to go fast, then Kyle is currently the best in NASCAR across the three series.
If you simply want to talk about Cup, then Jimmie, Chad and the HMS team are the ones to beat.
That doesn't mean that Kyle's accomplishments in NASCAR are any less impressive or meaningful than what Jimmie has accomplished. To me, it means that JJ is a one dimensional driver with a great Cup team.
If you consider what it means to be a great driver, then you have to consider the skill necessary to win, no matter what you're driving.
If you look at the big picture of what it means to be a great driver, then you can easily recognize that Tony Stewart (2011, 2005, 2002 NASCAR Sprint Cup Series Champion,1997 Indy Racing League Champion,1995 USAC Triple Crown Champion,1994 USAC National Midget Series Champion, 2006 IROC champion, 2005, 2007 Brickyard 400 Winner, 2009 Sprint All-Star Race winner, 2001, 2002, 2007 Budweiser Shootout Winner, 2006, 2008, 2009 Prelude to the Dream Winner, 2005, 2007, 2012 Gatorade Duel Winner, 2000 Turkey Night Grand Prix Winner, 2002, 2007 Chili Bowl Winner) is a far more accomplished driver than is Jimmie Johnson.
Granted, I recognize that this is a NASCAR forum, but I also recognize the necessary talent needed to accomplish what Kyle Busch has accomplished in NASCAR.
It pisses me off when people downplay talents that they themselves lack.
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Comparing different series is silly. Tony Stewart has out-participated just about all of the big-time names in Cup when it comes to other series, so obviously he'll be more accomplished in other series. Jimmie has multiple off-road titles, and then quickly transitioned to stock cars and has limited his participation in other events ever since. He has concentrated on one series which has resulted in blowing out essentially all of Tony Stewart's NASCAR accomplishments. Does this mean he's a "better driver" than Tony is? Not at all. But to say that Tony Stewart is a better driver than everybody else because he has wins in many different series isn't valid. Is John Force a better driver than Tony Stewart because he has 16 NHRA tites to Tony's 0?

Kyle has accomplished so much in the Nationwide series because he commits to running it full time among a weaker group of drivers. Pretty simple. I don't have to have elite racing skills to be able to point that out :)
 
I made no previous comment addressing Kyle's presence in Nationwide on this thread, why would you have expected it?
 
You referenced another one dimensional driver; John Force.
My point was that people think winning a Nationwide race is a cakewalk. If so, why has Jimmie struggled in anything other than the 48 Cup car? My point was also that not every driver can be competitive in any car.
 
reck said:
LOL, no.

Why would he go to SHR when there will be room for him in about 2 years when Gordon hangs it up? That kid is going to the 24.
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There has to be some kind of connection, give it a thought.
 
Clutch said:
Is Kyle breaking the rules somehow?
If not why all the tears?
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Not against the rules at all. I don't mind Kyle at all, I'm just saying that it's easier to run well when the competition isn't as good. Would it be against the rules for Tiger Woods to show up at a local community golf tournament? Probably not, but that doesn't mean him winning it would mean just as much as him winning a PGA event.
 
Wingnutcnc said:
There has to be some kind of connection, give it a thought.
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Considering SHR already has 4 cars and Elliott has been 'linked' to the 24 since he was 15, it still looks like HMS is where he's realistically going to end up.
 
DSquad48 said:
Not against the rules at all. I don't mind Kyle at all, I'm just saying that it's easier to run well when the competition isn't as good. Would it be against the rules for Tiger Woods to show up at a local community golf tournament? Probably not, but that doesn't mean him winning it would mean just as much as him winning a PGA event.
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Kyle motivation for racing a full Nationwide schedule may be different than what you think..... but whatever the reason,.... it is up to HIM to do as he wishes.

Now Chase Elliot can say he definitely earned his last 2 wins in NNW.
 
DUN24 said:
Considering SHR already has 4 cars and Elliott has been 'linked' to the 24 since he was 15, it still looks like HMS is where he's realistically going to end up.
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With little doubt.
 
DSquad48 said:
Not against the rules at all. I don't mind Kyle at all, I'm just saying that it's easier to run well when the competition isn't as good. Would it be against the rules for Tiger Woods to show up at a local community golf tournament? Probably not, but that doesn't mean him winning it would mean just as much as him winning a PGA event.
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Stick to NASCAR. Was Jimmie's limited success in the Nationwide Series because the competition was too tough?
 
DUN24 said:
Paragraph?
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BobbyFord said:
See how you are?
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haha.gif
 
Clutch said:
Kyle motivation for racing a full Nationwide schedule may be different than what you think..... but whatever the reason,.... it is up to HIM to do as he wishes.

Now Chase Elliot can say he definitely earned his last 2 wins in NNW.
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I agree, and I don't care what races he chooses to run in whatever series. He obviously enjoys racing no matter what the series. I just don't regard him as any better of a driver because of the fact he has proven to be able to dominate a lesser series.
 
In any sport, you play (race) up to the level of your competition. Improves the NW regular's skills to catch up to/beat the cup guys in their series. Like KyBu said, "Dont like me here? Beat me." That is why I like some cuppers in NW, but I'm all for making them start in the back.
 
BobbyFord said:
Stick to NASCAR. Was Jimmie's limited success in the Nationwide Series because the competition was too tough?
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If you're speaking of his early years, I would assume it was because he was in lesser equipment. If you're referring to recent years, I'd say it's because he wasn't dedicated to running the series and developing a strategy for winning Nationwide races.
 
DSquad48 said:
I agree, and I don't care what races he chooses to run in whatever series. He obviously enjoys racing no matter what the series. I just don't regard him as any better of a driver because of the fact he has proven to be able to dominate a lesser series.
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Nor do I. I appreciate his talent but wonder why so many complain about him running NNW.
I'm sure that Kyle believes that racing on Saturday helps him on Sunday.....
Pretty obvious to anyone that a Sprint Cup win means way more to him or anyone than a Nationwide win. I thought that would actually go without saying.
 
DSquad48 said:
If you're speaking of his early years, I would assume it was because he was in lesser equipment. If you're referring to recent years, I'd say it's because he wasn't dedicated to running the series and developing a strategy for winning Nationwide races.
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Man, as a racer, I say that's a BS answer.
Are you seriously saying that Jimmie entered races that he wasn't "dedicated" to winning?
Either you just clowned your driver or you just clowned yourself.
Which is it?
 
BobbyFord said:
Man, as a racer, I say that's a BS answer.
Are you seriously saying that Jimmie entered races that he wasn't "dedicated" to winning?
Either you just clowned your driver or you just clowned yourself.
Which is it?
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I didn't say he wasn't dedicated to winning, I said he wasn't dedicated to running the series - by which I mean full time.
 
Clutch said:
Nor do I. I appreciate his talent but wonder why so many complain about him running NNW.
I'm sure that Kyle believes that racing on Saturday helps him on Sunday.....
Pretty obvious to anyone that a Sprint Cup win means way more to him or anyone than a Nationwide win. I thought that would actually go without saying.
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most of the hate comes because he really hasn't had any competition for the last couple of years so he wins a lot. Hell, I know this, tried not to hold it against him, but I still wanted to see other drivers win more races, but the talent wasn't there so I began to wonder myself. It isn't because he is a super great driver, just the lack of turnover and lack of talent in Nationwide for a couple of years. Pretty easy for all to see this year that he isn't going to dominate, sure, he will win some, but the competition is much stiffer this year...finally.
 
DSquad48 said:
How, exactly? There is different strategy for racing in different series.
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Forgive me if I am wrong but I took your "developing a strategy for winning NNW races" as a slight on Kyle.
I don't believe for one second that Kyle even remotely looked at finding a strategy to win in NNW.

He just loves to race....and like I said, it helps him on sunday.
 
StandOnIt said:
most of the hate comes because he really hasn't had any competition for the last couple of years so he wins a lot. Hell, I know this, tried not to hold it against him, but I still wanted to see other drivers win more races, but the talent wasn't there so I began to wonder myself. It isn't because he is a super great driver, just the lack of turnover and lack of talent in Nationwide for a couple of years. Pretty easy for all to see this year that he isn't going to dominate, sure, he will win some, but the competition is much stiffer this year...finally.
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Did you know that he's 5th in current Cup driver wins?
Damn talentless hack :mad:
 
StandOnIt said:
most of the hate comes because he really hasn't had any competition for the last couple of years so he wins a lot. Hell, I know this, tried not to hold it against him, but I still wanted to see other drivers win more races, but the talent wasn't there so I began to wonder myself. It isn't because he is a super great driver, just the lack of turnover and lack of talent in Nationwide for a couple of years. Pretty easy for all to see this year that he isn't going to dominate, sure, he will win some, but the competition is much stiffer this year...finally.
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I just dont believe that his motivation for racing NNW is to win. The dude is competitive as they come for sure but I really believe that it helps him on sunday :)
 
StandOnIt said:
Pretty easy for all to see this year that he isn't going to dominate, sure, he will win some, but the competition is much stiffer this year...finally.
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With the stiffer competition and Cup regulars its REALLY exciting in NNS!...I'm loving it!
 
I mean look at Stenhouse, two Nationwide titles and he stinks pretty bad in cup, not even close to Kyle Busch caliber. Austin Dillon..good driver so far I think he is doing better than Stenhouse who has two years experience. Larson ran last year, after he got his bell rung at Daytona, it took him a while to get up to speed. this year with only two years in Nascar period and Elliott with no experience but othing but raw talent, it is a whole different ball game..just wish Blaney wouldn't have got the shaft and left out because I think he has the talent to win a race in Nationwide with a good team.
 
BobbyFord said:
Explain which strategy a racecar driver engages in that doesn't involve winning. o_O
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No silly, I mean strategy in regards to car setup, adjustments, and pit stops. Notebooks are filled with information that teams draw upon each year to help them find the edge in regards to things like car setup. Let's face it, NASCAR is a team sport, and there's not doubt that the 48 team is the best team in Cup. Kyle Busch, over the years of racing in Nationwide, has developed a team that can pound out sub-12sec. pit stops are make the right calls when it comes to strategy at the end of a race.
Clutch said:
Forgive me if I am wrong but I took your "developing a strategy for winning NNW races" as a slight on Kyle.
I don't believe for one second that Kyle even remotely looked at finding a strategy to win in NNW.

He just loves to race....and like I said, it helps him on sunday.
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Definitely wasn't slighting Kyle in any way. Like I said, I enjoy Kyle and don't mind him running races in Nationwide at all. It's just generally regarded that Nationwide is a "lesser" series, and therefore Kyle's accomplishments in Nationwide shouldn't be held in as high regard as his Cup accomplishments. Perhaps I'm wrong in thinking that, but that's how I (and a lot of others) feel about it.
 
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