No traction control found on Gordon's car....

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PitViper

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Maybe this will quiet down all the ABGr's.....

From Jayski's web site.....

Gordon's Car Cleared of Traction Control: Perhaps you noticed last week’s race winner Jeff Gordon having difficulty completing a proper burnout after winning last week’s race. You might have also noticed Gordon was able to run through Atlanta Motor Speedway’s corners so high that he was kicking up dirt and dust, but never pulled the car’s rear end into the wall. If so, you were not alone as a vast number of those who toil in the Winston Cup garage noticed these things as well, including NASCAR officials. According to NASCAR PR staff, Gordon’s car was torn down, inspected with a fine toothed comb and special attention paid to the ignition system. NASCAR officials did take the rear end from Gordon’s car into the Conover, N.C., R&D center, where the unit, away from the prying eyes of the competitors, was cleared later in the week. This confiscation was not widely publicized within the industry, but few were surprised when they did hear the news. One driver simply said of the impounded piece, “It doesn’t surprise me. I was running as hard as I could and I certainly couldn’t pull half the moves that [Gordon] was. Nope. It doesn’t surprise me, that they took it and that they didn’t find anything wrong.
 
I think for the most part, people realize its the SKILLS that put him where he is today.
 
hold up, now I'm not saying gordon has trac control and yes he is a very talanted driver but they had reports that said trac control can be undetected in places like the ignition box and can be controlled and undetected with a cell phone.
 
This is a subject that won't go away until they legalize it. Today's technology is such that they can virtually make it impossible to detect. Even the local scene has this problem and if those low, low budget teams can do it, any and all of those teams in the upper series certainly can do it. Probably most of those who are questioning others are guilty.
 
Originally posted by PitViper@Nov 3 2003, 08:03 AM
Maybe this will quiet down all the ABGr's.....

From Jayski's web site.....

Gordon's Car Cleared of Traction Control: Perhaps you noticed last week’s race winner Jeff Gordon having difficulty completing a proper burnout after winning last week’s race. You might have also noticed Gordon was able to run through Atlanta Motor Speedway’s corners so high that he was kicking up dirt and dust, but never pulled the car’s rear end into the wall. If so, you were not alone as a vast number of those who toil in the Winston Cup garage noticed these things as well, including NASCAR officials. According to NASCAR PR staff, Gordon’s car was torn down, inspected with a fine toothed comb and special attention paid to the ignition system. NASCAR officials did take the rear end from Gordon’s car into the Conover, N.C., R&D center, where the unit, away from the prying eyes of the competitors, was cleared later in the week. This confiscation was not widely publicized within the industry, but few were surprised when they did hear the news. One driver simply said of the impounded piece, “It doesn’t surprise me. I was running as hard as I could and I certainly couldn’t pull half the moves that [Gordon] was. Nope. It doesn’t surprise me, that they took it and that they didn’t find anything wrong.
Idoubt that they will hush, and many will criticize the decision.
 
Is it possible that he learned a few tricks from Juan Pablo Montoya's team when he was at Indy with those guys? (maybe that's were the cell phone technology came from?) :D
 
Gordon may not have traction control now but there is no doubt that they were using it back in their hayday!!! Evernham is one smart crew chief/car owner!
 
;) You poor misguided souls! What will it take for all of you to realize just what you have wittnessed here? Jeff has done more, in the face of better competition, than ANY driver before or since! He has ability that few others have had. Some of you are pulling for goodolboys that might NEVER win a race. But Jeff is always a threat. You all know that HE is the greatest DRIVER you have ever seen. SO why not just watch and enjoy him? Yep a few have had better records in the distant past.. Against lessor competition and ability. Today he is the drivers driver. Admit it! Look at all the records since he came to NASCAR. Who's name is on top? YEP! Get over your envy and watch the guy with admiration. THAT is what you should have for him.
;) B
 
I agree he is a great driver....the traction control is a myth IMO. If he had it Nascar would have found it, his ability against the competition out there today is great,but to put him in a class by himself isn't right. There are about a half dozen drivers i would put at his level..... Newman,Johnson,Stewart,Busch,R.Gordon(yes Robby can drive just about anything) and maybe Jr.
 
I am not going to argue the possibility of "does he or doesn't he" here.
I really don't THINK so, but I DO feel there are other drivers that are
even more suspect than Jeff Gordon. I won't name names, but I am
sure all you intelligent folks know to whom i am referring. LOL
And I agree. with the faction that says, "legalize" the darn thing.
That would make everyone equal again, and put fairness back in the game.
Nuff outta me on this. :lol: :D :rolleyes:
 
Traction Control rumors have only been in Nascar for a few years! What about all the years prior to this: Was Nascar checking for it???? Apparently not. Many of the Racing Publications have it in writing that Traction Control was used by many of the teams. Now that Nascar is looking for it the teams are probably not using it like they used too! Just plain common sense! I wouldn't doubt that Evernham was one of the first guys to figure out traction control. I guess we will never know for sure though!
 
...hold up, now I'm not saying gordon has trac control and yes he is a very talanted driver...

And you are posting a pic of Lil'E's car as someone who does use traction control. That I can believe...
 
I wouldn't say he is the greatest, but he is among the best. He has done a lot not only because of some great talent, but also from being on one of the great teams. I look at JJ and some of the other young guns that come in with little WC experience and win or contend at least very often. I therefore put a lot of what the drivers have been doing as a result of being on top notch teams.
 
You Know At some Point during 4 titles.....The Jeffy Boy had to be using Traction Control!!
 
Do any of you folks have any idea what you're talking about here?
All this talk of using cell phones to turn it on and off, etc? It doesn't need to be turned on and off at all.

Even with TC, a Cup car has more than enough power available to enable it to do a burnout without any problems at all.

We used a form of TC back in the 60's with a simple modification to a GM dual point distributor; I have seen several different types of TC which took advantage of varible valve timing arrangements, including one homemade unit on an old flathead V8 that used a piece of the tooth off an old York rake as a spring.

TC can be as simple as a circuit in the ignition box, the distributor; or even in the tachometer.
It honestly doesn't offer any real advantage, other than allowing a smooth driver to be a little more consistant. A poor driver is still going to be a poor driver and it would take a lot more than the TC units being used in NASCAR to make him a winner.

Of course, the TC used in passenger vehicles is an entirely different animal. Those units control wheelspin by using the ABS system and speed sensors at the wheels or driveshaft to detect wheelspin and apply the brake on the wheel which has lost traction. TC systems of this type rely on a computer, wheel speed sensors and either the ABS system, which is not found on Cup cars, or some of the earlier systems would short out one or more cylinders, which is obvious to all within hearing distance by the sound of the engine and can lead to serious engine damage as unburned fuel can wash down the cylinder walls causing excess friction, burned pistons and premature engine failure.
In short, not a very good system at all.
Most technologically up to date race cars use a system which shuts off the fuel injectors instead of the secondary ignition system, which eliminates this problem.
This same thing applies to the rev limiters as well. Shutting off the ignition system while still dumping fuel into the cylinders is not conducive to long engine life at all.

Honda was using technology in its Formula 1 cars that allowed the engineers in Japan to monitor and adjust different parameters of the cars performance while the cars were on track, in competition. They could make changes in the engine management, ABS, and active suspension systems, all by computer and satellite transmissions.
And this was several years ago.

One has to wonder how far the technology has progressed since that time.

We know that the driver is no longer needed; the cars can be raced by remote control and that's about as safe as we can make racing for the drivers, isn't it?
Let's take them out of the car, put them in a nice climate controlled, rubber room, strap them into their chairs to elimintate the chance of physical confrontations, make sure the remote control units are soft rubber foam with no sharp edges, and let them race.
We probably should make sure they're far enough apart so they can't spit into each other's faces as well.
But then, what would Jimmy Spencer do?
 
Excellent post boB, my question is the TC stuff, suposedly used on cup cars, is it nothing more than a unit that sees a spike in rpm and knocks ignition timing back a few degrees for just a second or two.
 
There is certainly some interesting Technology out there now a days! I have read that TC can be turned on and off from the stands with a device! Now if its true or not >> Im not sure! It was in a highly respected Stock Car Publication!
 
Great explanation boB. There are places that the TC really works for those better drivers though and one such place is here in Winston Salem at Bowman Gray Stadium where some of the modifieds are using TC. Those who are the better drivers really do take advantage of the TC by cutting close to a half a second off a lap. But the track is completely flat and only a 1/4 mile. When you get to the bigger tracks with banking, while it will still help, it won't be so noticable but still affective. These guys in the cup cars need every advantage they can get just to help them go a 1/10 of a second faster. Today's technology makes it hard for any one thing to do that and the teams must work day in and day out just to find that one little advantage. People believe that TC will do this for them, but it's a lot more than just that. One team that works on aero might make up for another teams use of TC and it's a wash. If TC were really that much of an advantage, NASCAR would either police it better or make it legal. They haven't done either and that makes me believe that it isn't the problem the press and many fans have tried to make it.
 
Nothing Like Good Old Bowman Gray Stadium >> racing around the High School Football Field >> thats definately some Grass Roots Racing !!!
 
Flyboy, actually it's not a high school football field. The Winston Salem State Rams are the only ones who use the field for football, a step up from high school football. Maybe you ought to come up here once in a while and watch some racing in the bull ring.
 
I didn't make it up there last summer. Spent most of my saturday's at Concord Motorsports park (a great track I must say) I will certainly head that way next summer! I can't believe you can run cars on such a small track! I gotta see this!
 
Originally posted by Betsy@Nov 6 2003, 11:08 AM
;) You poor misguided souls! What will it take for all of you to realize just what you have wittnessed here? Jeff has done more, in the face of better competition, than ANY driver before or since! He has ability that few others have had. Some of you are pulling for goodolboys that might NEVER win a race. But Jeff is always a threat. You all know that HE is the greatest DRIVER you have ever seen. SO why not just watch and enjoy him? Yep a few have had better records in the distant past.. Against lessor competition and ability. Today he is the drivers driver. Admit it! Look at all the records since he came to NASCAR. Who's name is on top? YEP! Get over your envy and watch the guy with admiration. THAT is what you should have for him.
;) B
Hello betsy,welcome to the forum.
Post often,as I really enjoyed Ur 19th post,couldn't agree more.

Although Newman,Johnson,Vickers,Jr. and others might acquire the credentials in the future,at present there is no other active driver with as many wins and Championships as Jeff Gordon,those are solid facts. ;)
 

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Originally posted by Betsy@Nov 6 2003, 10:08 AM
;) You poor misguided souls! What will it take for all of you to realize just what you have wittnessed here? Jeff has done more, in the face of better competition, than ANY driver before or since! He has ability that few others have had. Some of you are pulling for goodolboys that might NEVER win a race. But Jeff is always a threat. You all know that HE is the greatest DRIVER you have ever seen. SO why not just watch and enjoy him? Yep a few have had better records in the distant past.. Against lessor competition and ability. Today he is the drivers driver. Admit it! Look at all the records since he came to NASCAR. Who's name is on top? YEP! Get over your envy and watch the guy with admiration. THAT is what you should have for him.
;) B
I'll agree with on some of the things that you said but he is NOT the greatest, He has along way to go before we can can him the greatest, among the current drivers top 3, but as in all-time nope not the greatest. I'll give you top-10 all time.
 
Originally posted by barelypure@Nov 6 2003, 05:07 PM
...hold up, now I'm not saying gordon has trac control and yes he is a very talanted driver...

And you are posting a pic of Lil'E's car as someone who does use traction control. That I can believe...
:rolleyes:
 
HELLO,
Just was wondering how you and a few other people are such experts?
At what you may ask? To know things that even Nascar techs who Im
sure know their job dont,was there or is there some thing you knew that they didnt? Why is it when 24 does good he has to be cheating? To say that is ok everyone has the freedom of speech. Can we say if it were 8 or20 no one would say these things? Or lets not forget certain so called legends, it would be ha ha funny. Nothing was found and if you have all this great tech knowledge you can see if a remote can be used or a cell phone at the end of Dec to get your K.C. CHEIFS TO THEIR BIG WIN . :D :p
 
Alright, I may be an F1 buff, but i watched my nascar this season, and I dont see why the cheating factor is so closely associated w/ Gordon. Lets turn the spotlight onto Newman. He won like 8-9 races, and totally cleaned up when it came to poles. On most occasions he was always the fastest car on track, and he either won or crashed most the of time. I want Nascar to tear a couple of his cars down w/ a fine tooth comb. It was great seeing a rising star like him dominate but not win the championship, but it doesnt add up.
 
Originally posted by BebiF1@Dec 12 2003, 07:24 AM
Alright, I may be an F1 buff, but i watched my nascar this season, and I dont see why the cheating factor is so closely associated w/ Gordon. Lets turn the spotlight onto Newman. He won like 8-9 races, and totally cleaned up when it came to poles. On most occasions he was always the fastest car on track, and he either won or crashed most the of time. I want Nascar to tear a couple of his cars down w/ a fine tooth comb. It was great seeing a rising star like him dominate but not win the championship, but it doesnt add up.
I'm pretty sure they tore a few of Newman's cars down & Nascar found nothing. I believe the time I'm thinking of was when Harvick & J. Gordon, in a round-a-bout way, accused him of cheating. I just don't remember which race it was, but that it happened late in the season...September or October.
 
Originally posted by tam259/24@Dec 10 2003, 11:09 PM
HELLO,
Just was wondering how you and a few other people are such experts?
At what you may ask? To know things that even Nascar techs who Im
sure know their job dont,was there or is there some thing you knew that they didnt? Why is it when 24 does good he has to be cheating? To say that is ok everyone has the freedom of speech. Can we say if it were 8 or20 no one would say these things? Or lets not forget certain so called legends, it would be ha ha funny. Nothing was found and if you have all this great tech knowledge you can see if a remote can be used or a cell phone at the end of Dec to get your K.C. CHEIFS TO THEIR BIG WIN . :D :p
If you are talking to me, I never claimed that I was an expert and what I usually say is my opinion or I qoute from article's or tv shows, also as far as the 8 goes every time a DEI car wins a plate race or dominates it you always hear that NASCAR giving the DEI crew a special plate or bends the rules just for the DEI crew. It does'nt matter who wins the race there are always critics.
 
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