Point Standings if there was no "Chase"

RowdyBusch

RowdyBusch

Team Owner
Joined
Jun 3, 2016
Messages
303
Points
223
1. Kevin Harvick - 671 Points (1 win)
2. Brad Keselowski - 647 Points (4 wins) -24 from leader
3. Kurt Busch - 627 Points (1 win) -44 from leader
4. Joey Logano - 606 Points (1 win) -65 from leader
5. Kyle Busch - 601 Points (4 wins) -70 from leader
6. Carl Edwards - 593 Points (2 wins) -78 from leader
7. Martin Truex Jr - 573 Points (1 win) -98 from leader
8. Jimmie Johnson - 552 Points (2 wins) -119 from leader
9. Matt Kenseth - 545 Points (2 wins) -126 from leader
10. Denny Hamlin - 542 Points (1 win) -129 from leader

This would be a great season for a points battle without a Chase format. Mr. Consistent Kevin Harvick would be one bad race away from making this very close. Any driver in the top 10 is capable of going on a hot streak based on performance this season. Alas...
 
Don't even talk about regular points. It's painful to look at knowing it's not real. Very close...tenth place only 3 races back is very tight 3/4 of the way through the season.
 
While I dislike the Chase as much as anyone else, I don't see the point in having 'If There Was No Chase' discussions. It's there, we're stuck with it, it isn't going away any time soon. Just rip tha t BandAid off and move on.

Ditto trotting out a list based on the old '43 through 175' points system.

Rip those BandAids off and move on.
 
One thing this list does show is that you certainly don't need 16 cars in the chase.
Harvick could sit out 3 races and still beat Hamlin. So ask yourself "why would a win qualify you?" Top 10 in points would be much better.
 
Proving the theory "If it ain't broke , don't fix it" . Nascar is determined to break new ground . I'm wondering if jumping over 20 school buses can't be far away .
 
Means not a damn thing, and everybody knows it.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
While I dislike the Chase as much as anyone else, I don't see the point in having 'If There Was No Chase' discussions. It's there, we're stuck with it, it isn't going away any time soon. Just rip tha t BandAid off and move on.

Ditto trotting out a list based on the old '43 through 175' points system.

Rip those BandAids off and move on.
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It's just a thread on a forum man, I'm not trying to change the world. But what if.... ;)
 
Team Penske said:
One thing this list does show is that you certainly don't need 16 cars in the chase.
Harvick could sit out 3 races and still beat Hamlin. So ask yourself "why would a win qualify you?" Top 10 in points would be much better.
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If Ryan Newman gained a position or two a few years ago at Homestead he would have been a zero race win champion. It will take something like that to get people talking. I seriously doubt even then that we will ever see a season long points system again, Brian France is just too smitten with gimmicks. I hope the guy that sneaks into the Chase on points wins it all with a string of eighth place finishes and Brian has some splainin' to do.
 
RowdyBusch said:
1. Kevin Harvick - 671 Points (1 win)
2. Brad Keselowski - 647 Points (4 wins) -24 from leader
3. Kurt Busch - 627 Points (1 win) -44 from leader
4. Joey Logano - 606 Points (1 win) -65 from leader
5. Kyle Busch - 601 Points (4 wins) -70 from leader
6. Carl Edwards - 593 Points (2 wins) -78 from leader
7. Martin Truex Jr - 573 Points (1 win) -98 from leader
8. Jimmie Johnson - 552 Points (2 wins) -119 from leader
9. Matt Kenseth - 545 Points (2 wins) -126 from leader
10. Denny Hamlin - 542 Points (1 win) -129 from leader

This would be a great season for a points battle without a Chase format. Mr. Consistent Kevin Harvick would be one bad race away from making this very close. Any driver in the top 10 is capable of going on a hot streak based on performance this season. Alas...
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IMO, it does no good to look at the classic championship format as we don't know how individual teams would have raced differently if the correct format was still being used. It is fun for a discussion though.
 
RowdyBusch said:
If Ryan Newman gained a position or two a few years ago at Homestead he would have been a zero race win champion. It will take something like that to get people talking.
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Cool. Let's wait for that.
 
RowdyBusch said:
1. Kevin Harvick - 671 Points (1 win)
2. Brad Keselowski - 647 Points (4 wins) -24 from leader
3. Kurt Busch - 627 Points (1 win) -44 from leader
4. Joey Logano - 606 Points (1 win) -65 from leader
5. Kyle Busch - 601 Points (4 wins) -70 from leader
6. Carl Edwards - 593 Points (2 wins) -78 from leader
7. Martin Truex Jr - 573 Points (1 win) -98 from leader
8. Jimmie Johnson - 552 Points (2 wins) -119 from leader
9. Matt Kenseth - 545 Points (2 wins) -126 from leader
10. Denny Hamlin - 542 Points (1 win) -129 from leader

This would be a great season for a points battle without a Chase format. Mr. Consistent Kevin Harvick would be one bad race away from making this very close. Any driver in the top 10 is capable of going on a hot streak based on performance this season. Alas...
Click to expand...
Thanks for posting. I like looking at these numbers. It reminds me of what we could be having..... A legitimately decent run for a Championship without points resetting and the like. Each week of the season was equally important towards the final goal of the Championship caliber teams.
 
I would LMAO if a non-winner of a single race pulled off winning the championship. Might cause the brain to pop a vein..just sayin'
 
Bobw said:
I would LMAO if a non-winner of a single race pulled off winning the championship. Might cause the brain to pop a vein..just sayin'
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I think my favorite lottery winner would be Paul Menard as having him win it all with no victories would be sweet. if for no other reason than to see if the look on his face changed. Another zero win guy I would like to see win it would be Ryan Newman or have someone like Chase Elliott get hot at the right time and top 5 his way to a champ with zero wins of course.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
I think my favorite lottery winner would be Paul Menard as having him win it all with no victories would be sweet. if for no other reason than to see if the look on his face changed. Another zero win guy I would like to see win it would be Ryan Newman or have someone like Chase Elliott get hot at the right time and top 5 his way to a champ with zero wins of course.
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That would be great.

We could post the old points after Homestead and crown the real Champeen. Prolly Kyle Busch, Jimmie Johnson, Brad Keselowski, Kevin Harvick, Joey Logano, Denny Hamlin, Carl Edwards, Matt Kenseth, Kurt Busch, Dale Jr. ... one of those guys.

Junior would be good ... with no wins.
 
I've been wondering about the real point system. Position 4 is already more than a race behind, by the end of August it would be a 2 horse race. (I still think the points leader deserves a spot in the final race).
 
RowdyBusch said:
If Ryan Newman gained a position or two a few years ago at Homestead he would have been a zero race win champion. It will take something like that to get people talking. I seriously doubt even then that we will ever see a season long points system again, Brian France is just too smitten with gimmicks. I hope the guy that sneaks into the Chase on points wins it all with a string of eighth place finishes and Brian has some splainin' to do.
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Thing is though, if Newman had gained a position he would have won, so he wouldn't have been a winless champion.
 
Another thing, if there were no chase, the races would turn out different. Teams would race differently, use different strategy ect.
 
freakonomics-apple-orange-inside--large-msg-115581113811.jpg
 
RowdyBusch said:
1. Kevin Harvick - 671 Points (1 win)
2. Brad Keselowski - 647 Points (4 wins) -24 from leader
3. Kurt Busch - 627 Points (1 win) -44 from leader
4. Joey Logano - 606 Points (1 win) -65 from leader
5. Kyle Busch - 601 Points (4 wins) -70 from leader
6. Carl Edwards - 593 Points (2 wins) -78 from leader
7. Martin Truex Jr - 573 Points (1 win) -98 from leader
8. Jimmie Johnson - 552 Points (2 wins) -119 from leader
9. Matt Kenseth - 545 Points (2 wins) -126 from leader
10. Denny Hamlin - 542 Points (1 win) -129 from leader

This would be a great season for a points battle without a Chase format. Mr. Consistent Kevin Harvick would be one bad race away from making this very close. Any driver in the top 10 is capable of going on a hot streak based on performance this season. Alas...
Click to expand...

Kyle Busch, greatest driver of the past decade that's never dominated even one season. :dunce:
 
I hate the Chase, and would like it's absurdity to be pointed out but....I think a Champion with no wins will permanently damage the integrity of the sport. As much as it would be fun to see Brian try to explain how a format he originally implemented because of a champion winning only one race led to a champion with no wins at all, I can't hope for it.
 
Could just as easily happen under any previous format and almost did. Matt Kenseth.
 
aunty dive said:
Could just as easily happen under any previous format and almost did. Matt Kenseth.
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I don't think you can say "just as easily." The prior championship required consistency over the whole season. If you were upfront consistently, you were likely to win at least a one race. In contrast, the current format requires you to be decent for 3/4s of the season and follow that up with a few good races. Far easier to sneak in there with no wins, as Ryan Newman demonstrated.
 
29-4 said:
I don't think you can say "just as easily." The prior championship required consistency over the whole season. If you were upfront consistently, you were likely to win at least a one race. In contrast, the current format requires you to be decent for 3/4s of the season and follow that up with a few good races. Far easier to sneak in there with no wins, as Ryan Newman demonstrated.
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I think I can.

It almost happened with Kenseth ... he was very consistent all season and in spite of the fact that he was "likely" to win at least once, he could just as easily have finished second at Vegas - there were 16 lead changes and he only led twice.

Newman made it in on consistent performance and remained so until the end ... if he hadn't he wouldn't have had a shot. One could say that based on all of that, he was "likely to win at least one race." He didn't.
 
I think consistency is still important, even for race winners. For the pre chase champions it was all about consistency (they'd take a good points day if they couldn't win). I have no problem with a non winner taking the championship. A long season depends on consistency. Consistency is the true merit of a team.
 
ReturnTrip said:
Kyle Busch, greatest driver of the past decade that's never dominated even one season. :dunce:
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#CHAMPION....Didn't the Seattle Mariners dominate a season (116 wins) several years back? Probably don't remember that, huh? Know why? Didn't win the series. Didn't win the American League. Good job dominating the regular season though.
 
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Revman said:
#CHAMPION....Didn't the Seattle Mariners dominate a season (116 wins) several years back? Probably don't remember that, huh? Know why? Didn't win the series. Didn't win the American League. Good job dominating the regular season though.
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More of a * than a #.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Nope, these must be the real standings because just last week Racing-Forums said teams don't sandbag or experiment before the Chase.
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The teams most definitely run their race differently when their incentive is to race for points rather than weighting the incentives toward winning. Especially with the ridiculously low points bonus you get for a win compared to the points yield of settling for a safe top-10 finish. Nascar's flat points scale is the reason for that, and not any R&D experiments real or imagined.
 
Revman said:
#CHAMPION....Didn't the Seattle Mariners dominate a season (116 wins) several years back? Probably don't remember that, huh? Know why? Didn't win the series. Didn't win the American League. Good job dominating the regular season though.
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Meh...that argument really doesn't translate to NASCAR because competitors face all other competitors every week in motorsports, where stick and ball sports are a 1 vs. 1 competition which necessitates a playoff. I've seen the "2007 Patriots" argument here 1,000 times before, but it's just not the same thing.

Doesn't mean I enjoy Kyle's championship any less though. ;)
 
ToyYoda said:
Meh...that argument really doesn't translate to NASCAR because competitors face all other competitors every week in motorsports, where stick and ball sports are a 1 vs. 1 competition which necessitates a playoff. I've seen the "2007 Patriots" argument here 1,000 times before, but it's just not the same thing.

Doesn't mean I enjoy Kyle's championship any less though. ;)
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I hear ya, but champions win when the chips are down IMO. @ReturnTrip was suggesting that it was necessary to dominate a season to be considered great. I disagree. The game has changed.
 
ToyYoda said:
Thing is though, if Newman had gained a position he would have won, so he wouldn't have been a winless champion.
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My memory failed me, I didn't realize he finished second, I just remember the points.
 
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