What about ref in Control Tower to see if the accident debris caution mask or a racing deal

Nascar has zero interest in opinions on how they run their races. Darrel Waltrip spoke out about debris cautions several years ago, he recommended they lay out the debris from the yellows after the races to squash any controversy, Mike Helton responded to his recommendation by calling DW a cheat.
 
I dont like BS cautions. But what would a referee in the tower accomplish?
Cautions typically need to be displayed in real time and without delay once the need has been established.
A referee could only serve in a responsive or retroactive manner to rule if the caution was justified.

So what happens if they rule that it wasn't justified? It isnt like they can do a rewind or reset. Once the caution is thrown the ramifications are usually irreversible.
I would have Nascar handle any needed evaluations themselves.
A referee would only be placebo for the fans and a diversion at the best.
A should have, could have generator that offers no remedy for the caution that has already happened.
Also it needs to be understood that many cases are subjective, with some gray areas.
There will always be some questionable calls. Even if the drivers and fans were less passionate, or less likely to whine.

Nascar knows what they are doing and what they want. I would rather just see them committed to less BS debris cautions without some ceremonious referee.
 
Maybe we should give each team one 'Caution Challenge' per race? When the caution comes out, the leader of the race can question its validity. They could red flag the race while the Caution Challenge is being reviewed back at the main headquarters in Charlotte. If it deemed that the debris caution was not necessary, the leader is then given a 5 second head start on the next restart. If the debris caution is upheld, the leader becomes the first car a lap down.

tumblr_n860jlYVmP1qzgwh4o1_500.gif
 
Cautions need to be dealt with right away. There is no point in second guessing a caution during the race - we can handle it here. Questioning a caution after it has been called is like questioning balls and strikes. At some point it is up to an individual to call 'em the way they see 'em.
 
I'm all for getting rid of the BS cautions, but this idea wouldn't work. Who would the 'ref' be other than an employee of NASCAR? The best solution is for the media to start demanding that NASCAR show the debris. When the public sees that a lot of these cautions are for water bottles, balloons, dirt etc. change may be demanded.
 
Greg said:
I dont like BS cautions. But what would a referee in the tower accomplish?
Cautions typically need to be displayed in real time and without delay once the need has been established.
A referee could only serve in a responsive or retroactive manner to rule if the caution was justified.

So what happens if they rule that it wasn't justified? It isnt like they can do a rewind or reset. Once the caution is thrown the ramifications are usually irreversible.
I would have Nascar handle any needed evaluations themselves.
A referee would only be placebo for the fans and a diversion at the best.
A should have, could have generator that offers no remedy for the caution that has already happened.
Also it needs to be understood that many cases are subjective, with some gray areas.
There will always be some questionable calls. Even if the drivers and fans were less passionate, or less likely to whine.

Nascar knows what they are doing and what they want. I would rather just see them committed to less BS debris cautions without some ceremonious referee.
Click to expand...

Very, very well said.
 
The OP believes that NASHCASH is causing crashes on occasions when there is insufficient debris to throw a field-bunching caution. I think I have that right.

Ted and I saw the same UFO at Mid Ohio.
 
ted@economy said:
I saw Nascar NOT throwing a lot of caution flags in the awful excuse for a race . They could have thrown multiple cautions on every single lap . I did see a UFO land and leave in disgust though.
Click to expand...

I am sure that a debris caution could be called on just about all the laps as there is always something on the track. It is the interpretation of what is debris and when marble sized ball of neoprene becomes car and driver killin'
 
29-4 said:
I'm all for getting rid of the BS cautions, but this idea wouldn't work. Who would the 'ref' be other than an employee of NASCAR? The best solution is for the media to start demanding that NASCAR show the debris. When the public sees that a lot of these cautions are for water bottles, balloons, dirt etc. change may be demanded.
Click to expand...
I'm game for celebrity judges . Some Olympic athletes , some stick and ball stars, maybe a singer or two . Justin Beiber would be a great judge . Too bad Marilyn Munroe is gone , she had a great eye .
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
... we should give each team one 'Caution Challenge' per race?... If it deemed that the debris caution was not necessary, the leader is then given a 5 second head start on the next restart. If the debris caution is upheld, the leader becomes the first car a lap down.
Click to expand...

Excellent idea!

But it would be tough at Bristol and Martinsville. If the lead car has a 10 second lead, and wins their challenge, he will probably overtake cars at the end of the line. Cause Cars from p2 through p40s start will be like a delayed accordian.

But that can be fixed too. Simply make all cars coming up to speed, leave the high groove against the wall open until they cross the start finish line.
That way the leader can safely zing by them.

The caution referee will simply need to watch out for restart lane violations as well.
 
Greg said:
Excellent idea!

But it would be tough at Bristol and Martinsville. If the lead car has a 10 second lead, and wins their challenge, he will probably overtake cars at the end of the line. Cause Cars from p2 through p40s start will be like a delayed accordian.

But that can be fixed too. Simply make all cars coming up to speed, leave the high groove against the wall open until they cross the start finish line.
That way the leader can safely zing by them.

The caution referee will simply need to watch out for restart lane violations as well.
Click to expand...
You always have to be a spoilsport and overthink everything. :mad:

Now I gotta go back and rethink my solution to the perceived problem. :D
 
  • Like
Reactions: sdj
The Trumpmeister is the obvious choice.

However, he won't be available until November 9th.
 
In F1 they have stewards who make calls that can affect the race well after an incident or even days after the race (I don't think we want that).

NASCAR might want to require anything that can be thrown out of a car have the car number on it (but cleaver teams would put a competitors number on it).
 
29-4 said:
I'm all for getting rid of the BS cautions, but this idea wouldn't work. Who would the 'ref' be other than an employee of NASCAR? The best solution is for the media to start demanding that NASCAR show the debris. When the public sees that a lot of these cautions are for water bottles, balloons, dirt etc. change may be demanded.
Click to expand...
GoPro helmet cams on the guys that pick up the debris. Problem solved.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Maybe we should give each team one 'Caution Challenge' per race? When the caution comes out, the leader of the race can question its validity. They could red flag the race while the Caution Challenge is being reviewed back at the main headquarters in Charlotte. If it deemed that the debris caution was not necessary, the leader is then given a 5 second head start on the next restart. If the debris caution is upheld, the leader becomes the first car a lap down.

tumblr_n860jlYVmP1qzgwh4o1_500.gif
Click to expand...
Also 15 yards and loss of down?

And who's that sports car driver in the video?
 
I meant racing accident refs to determine if, for example, a flat tire into the wall as a good attempt but the team to gain speed or a text from the control tower to put in above the required camber to entertain the 30,000 fans, 600% less then 10 years ago.
 
Why don't “we” refrain from further discussion on the topic before “they” happen upon the thread and decide some or all of it is a good idea.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
GoPro helmet cams on the guys that pick up the debris. Problem solved.
Click to expand...
Then the argument goes from whether or not it exists to whether or not the debris found is caution worthy. It would be a lot of investment for very little return. The conspiracy theory crowd will never be pleased with whatever NASCAR does.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Then the argument goes from whether or not it exists to whether or not the debris found is caution worthy. It would be a lot of investment for very little return. The conspiracy theory crowd will never be pleased with whatever NASCAR does.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's difficult for me to see all the bugaboos since I'm don't buy into the theory in the first place.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Yeah, it's difficult for me to see all the bugaboos since I'm don't buy into the theory in the first place.
Click to expand...
You'll probably also have the crowd that will say that they are showing you a piece of debris that wasn't actually on the track. Or, if they would actually show them picking it up, it'll be that some other worker threw it down. It would never end. I don't really know how big of a deal it is anyway, to NASCAR that is. I mean the people that are accusing them of throwing debris cautions are still tuning in on Sunday to watch the race. If they aren't watching then how can they comment as to if a caution is or isn't necessary? Much ado about nothing.
 
Yeah I mean It's a tough pickle. I guess thoguh try to ref. If it's broke fix it. We all agree the yellow flag process is wrong, so lets fix it. Replay has done wonders for the Olympics (it is even used in Greco Roman wrestling, the most popular sport in the world) bits tongue.
 
4tires17gals said:
Yeah I mean It's a tough pickle. I guess thoguh try to ref. If it's broke fix it. We all agree the yellow flag process is wrong, so lets fix it. Replay has done wonders for the Olympics (it is even used in Greco Roman wrestling, the most popular sport in the world) bits tongue.
Click to expand...
I don't agree that the process is broken. There are changes I'd like to see AFTER the yellow is already out to reduce the length of the caution. I think NASCAR is sometimes a bit quick to call a caution, but I'm mostly satified with the current decision making process.
 
If we had accident refs we would be green until lap 360 and then have 4 accidents from 360 to lap 407. That is not the NASCAR I want either. I think alot of the problems came after Dale Sr. passed away. His merchandise hauler had lines of 8 and 9 hours.
 
I don't agree that there is something wrong with the system either. If one ever gets a chance to listen to Nascar radio you will find that management has nothing to do with creating a caution . In most cases , debris will be reported by multiple teams , then race control will ask corner workers to visually verify the reports. If they concur , race control will order the caution flag. By the time the workers get to the spot , the debris could be someplace else , after being knocked about by several cars. It could also be fluids . I 've seen it embedded in other cars , knocked up in the stands, knocked into the infield, all sorts of things. Never seen it picked up by a UFO , but it could happen . Point is , if it isn't there when the camera gets there , doesn't mean it wasn't . If anybody is to blame , it may be your Favorite driver .
 
4tires17gals said:
If we had accident refs we would be green until lap 360 and then have 4 accidents from 360 to lap 407. That is not the NASCAR I want either. I think alot of the problems came after Dale Sr. passed away. His merchandise hauler had lines of 8 and 9 hours.
Click to expand...
Give it a rest.
 
4tires17gals said:
If we had accident refs we would be green until lap 360 and then have 4 accidents from 360 to lap 407. That is not the NASCAR I want either. I think alot of the problems came after Dale Sr. passed away. His merchandise hauler had lines of 8 and 9 hours.
Click to expand...
I haven't understood a single thing you've said in this entire thread.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Maybe we should give each team one 'Caution Challenge' per race? When the caution comes out, the leader of the race can question its validity. They could red flag the race while the Caution Challenge is being reviewed back at the main headquarters in Charlotte. If it deemed that the debris caution was not necessary, the leader is then given a 5 second head start on the next restart. If the debris caution is upheld, the leader becomes the first car a lap down.

tumblr_n860jlYVmP1qzgwh4o1_500.gif
Click to expand...

This is great snark. Too bad Brian France would read this and go "THAT'S A GREAT IDEA!"
 
29-4 said:
I'm all for getting rid of the BS cautions, but this idea wouldn't work. Who would the 'ref' be other than an employee of NASCAR? The best solution is for the media to start demanding that NASCAR show the debris. When the public sees that a lot of these cautions are for water bottles, balloons, dirt etc. change may be demanded.
Click to expand...

Anyone remember when Bill Weber was announcing the races?

"Caution is out for debris. When we see it, we'll show it to you."

For a while, Fox was doing the same thing. I'd love to see Fox and NBC make those demands again.
 
ted@economy said:
I don't agree that there is something wrong with the system either. If one ever gets a chance to listen to Nascar radio you will find that management has nothing to do with creating a caution . In most cases , debris will be reported by multiple teams , then race control will ask corner workers to visually verify the reports. If they concur , race control will order the caution flag. By the time the workers get to the spot , the debris could be someplace else , after being knocked about by several cars. It could also be fluids . I 've seen it embedded in other cars , knocked up in the stands, knocked into the infield, all sorts of things. Never seen it picked up by a UFO , but it could happen . Point is , if it isn't there when the camera gets there , doesn't mean it wasn't . If anybody is to blame , it may be your Favorite driver .
Click to expand...

Didn't that happen earlier this year? Teams kept screaming about debris and the caution came out right as someone hit it?
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Didn't that happen earlier this year? Teams kept screaming about debris and the caution came out right as someone hit it?
Click to expand...

Saw a racing truck today " Marquis Racing #37" not pulling a racecar though , pulling a commercial trailer . New England maybe ?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom