Rule on intentional causing a caution

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Last years rule book:

Any driver who, in the judgment of NASCAR officials, intentionally causes, or attempts to cause, a caution (yellow flag) condition by stopping or spinning out or any other action:
a fine, and/or loss of championship points, and/or loss of finishing position in the Event.

From an old NASCAR rule book (1999):

In the General Scope of Penalties section, under Race Procedures:
(N) Any driver who intentionally causes or atempts to cause a caution(yellow flag) condition by stopping or spinning out, or any other action: a fine and/or lap or time penalty.

I would think that someone who has raced with NASCAR as long as Jr. has, would be quite familar with the rule book and should have more common sense than to make the statements which he did; both on the radio during the event and to the media following it.

Maybe a steep fine and moved back to 43rd position for that event would get the spoiled little brat's attention.

Then again, probably could never happen; after all, his name is Earnhardt!

Actually, I'm rather shocked with the whole situation; I honestly thought that Jr. was starting to show a bit more maturity. I guess I gave him too much credit, too soon.
 
I don't think they're considering any punishment. Darby said that admission of guilt wasn't proof that it was intentional. Go figure. :cuckoo:
 
Ole Ironhead raised a mushmelon.

The kid's dumb enough to brag about cheating and then he gets away with it 'cause his last name's Earnhardt.

Yep, go figure!

Ooops, I overlooked the "in the judgement of NASCAR officials" part. I guess that says it all!
 
How true, how true!
A first time event as big as that, and I missed it.
I was busy Sunday, had company and only tuned in in time to catch the last restart and the finish.
 
I just cannot accept that NASCAR isn't gonna penalize the brat.
Yeppers, I like him, and feel he is going to be a champion one day.
But this blatant act needs to be addressed and a fine ond/or penalty
assessed!!!!! If they don't do something, It will sure send a
message to all the other drivers. HUH??????? :wacko: ;) :unsure: :eek:
 
From what I've read I think Jr will be fined (at the very least).....and possibly loose a few points too. :(

I won't be happy if he looses points. But he does deserve it.
 
Brat? sometimes you people really irk me, I admit that what he did was wrong and if he broke a rule doin it then he should be punished, I'm sure if your favorite driver did the same thing you would'nt be to happy with the name calling
 
"admission of guilt wasn't proof that it was intentional."


Missed that the first time----absolutely incredible. Johnny Cochran couldn't have said it better.


And bet your Rick Wilson bumper stickers Junior will not lose a single point . And people wonder what we 'conspiracy theorist' are smoking?
 
Originally posted by steveluvs3@Mar 30 2004, 08:45 PM
Brat? sometimes you people really irk me, I admit that what he did was wrong and if he broke a rule doin it then he should be punished, I'm sure if your favorite driver did the same thing you would'nt be to happy with the name calling
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Do you think that DEJr cares what people say about you?
 
Originally posted by steveluvs3@Mar 30 2004, 05:45 PM
I'm sure if your favorite driver did the same thing you would'nt be to happy with the name calling
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I would have thought you understood by now..........there's a very real and irrational hatred of Dale Earnhardt (and anything Earnhardt) by a fairly sizable minority of NASCAR fans. It follows the same logic as the hatred of Bill Gates and everything Micorsoft. I haven't been able to figure it out. Don't guess there's logic to it...........it's just there.
 
I guess your right wrangler, but it seems like they hate jr. more than when sr. was alive, all I got to say "don't hate the player, hate the game"
 
Originally posted by DE_Wrangler_2@Mar 30 2004, 07:55 PM
I would have thought you understood by now..........there's a very real and irrational hatred of Dale Earnhardt (and anything Earnhardt) by a fairly sizable minority of NASCAR fans. It follows the same logic as the hatred of Bill Gates and everything Micorsoft. I haven't been able to figure it out. Don't guess there's logic to it...........it's just there.
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Sizable minority? :p
 
Oh and John Darby apparently only heard Junior bragging about what he did over his in car radio. He did not realize that Junior made those comments to reporters after the race. Honestly you have to treat this with great caution. You have to set a precedent. Because NASCAR now freezes the field it is easy for one to cause a caution and not lose a lap. IMO a monetary fine and a loss of 25 owners and drivers points should be handed down. We CANNOT have drivers intentionally spinning out to cause a caution. It is dangerous. Period. To brag about it shows that Junior still has some learning to do.
 
Originally posted by N2racin88@Mar 30 2004, 06:16 PM
Oh and John Darby apparently only heard Junior bragging about what he did over his in car radio. He did not realize that Junior made those comments to reporters after the race. Honestly you have to treat this with great caution. You have to set a precedent. Because NASCAR now freezes the field it is easy for one to cause a caution and not lose a lap. IMO a monetary fine and a loss of 25 owners and drivers points should be handed down. We CANNOT have drivers intentionally spinning out to cause a caution. It is dangerous. Period. To brag about it shows that Junior still has some learning to do.
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You won't get an argument from this Jr fan on that!! :) :cheers:
 
Maybe I hang out at the wrong places, but I haven't seen any real hatred of Junior. Lot's of people don't pull for him, but that's a far cry from hating him.
No driver is infallible and they will make a stupid mistake from time to time (Lord knows my favorite has) and when he does one can expect that he will be made fun of or roundly criticized depending on the nature of the error.
I don't hate Junior, but I can see where he should have kept his mouth shut about the spin because it will cause him nothing but trouble. The anger that I have over the incident is directed entirely at the stupidity of Nascar's initial response to it. I have heard today that the spin is under review. I think the light has gone on (finally) in Darby's brain and he has realized this is something that cannot be overlooked due to problems it could cause down the road if it became a popular ploy by drivers who could use a caution.
 
I don't really think there is a hatered for JR. At the track Sun. a good 40% of the 165 thousand fans had on Jr stuff.
 
Originally posted by N2racin88@Mar 30 2004, 06:11 PM
Sizable minority? :p
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I'm just guessing, but from posts concerning Jr I would say about 25% are from posters who, in some way, express a degree of hatred of the man and/or his father. That, to me, means its a minority but still a fairly large percentage. Maybe I should have said "vocal" minority. :D
 
Well, it's pretty obvious if left to their own devices Nascar would never, ever penalize Jr for any infraction----those with enough courage and memory knows SR got by with every trick in the book a thousand times. However, public opinion might actually force Nascar's hand on this one. Let's hope so----because I am one of those that actually likes Jr personality-wise. I just can not stand the so blatant favoritism he is occasionally shown by the sanctioning body. THEY are who I get pi$$ed at moreso than Jr himself.
 
I think this forum needs to be named: The Nascar Conspiracy Forum
 
There is no conspiracy here. What Junior did was intentional. He admitted it.

The 2004 Nextel Cup Rulebook is clear on this issue. Section 12-4 (N) reads, "Any driver who in the judgment of NASCAR officials intentionally causes or attempts to cause a caution condition by stopping or spinning out or any other action: a fine, and/or loss of points, and/or loss of finishing position in event."

Kurt Busch was fined $10k for purposely spinning someone in a non points event. The stakes are higher now and it is easier then ever to cause a caution and not get lapped because of the field being frozen. Had Junior not done what he did he woud have finished out of the top 20 more then likely. Taking away 25 points is the least NASCAR could do.
 
I think this forum needs to be named: The Nascar Conspiracy Forum
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Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me. :lol:
 
Jeeeeezzzzzzzzzz!!!!!!! MY calling Jr a brat is the same as me calling one of my kids a brat.
AS I said in my post, I reallly do like Jr.

As for the "hatred" thing, that is really silly. I haven't heard of ANYONE claiming to hate Jr.

I have said my fav has done some bonehead stuff, as well as other drivers; but that does NOT
mean I hate nor even dislike them.

Sooooooooooo, I guess that's about all. Chill, please.
 
Ricky Creven stopping on the track I presume? Oh and here is what Bobby Lobonte thinks:

"There probably should be something done," Labonte said. "I don't know what the penalty should be or could be, but it definitely needs to be where it doesn't matter who you are (if a penalty is or isn't issued)."
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NASCAR better do something quick cause "the crap is startin to pile up" IMO I think he should be fined, but no points cause jamie just got fined $10,000 and on probation for spinning out matt on the cool down lap.
 
Originally posted by N2racin88@Mar 30 2004, 10:04 PM
Ricky Creven stopping on the track I presume? Oh and here is what Bobby Lobonte thinks:

"There probably should be something done," Labonte said. "I don't know what the penalty should be or could be, but it definitely needs to be where it doesn't matter who you are (if a penalty is or isn't issued)."
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That quote by Bobby Labonte really tells me that the drivers notice these things as much as us fans do.

What gets me mad about this is that during the non-points All-Star race, Busch spun Robby Gordon and purpose and bragged about it afterwards almost in the same manner as Junior did (on the radio at the time and to the media afterwards), and he gets fined. So you mean to tell me that in a higher-stakes points race, Junior wont get fined or taken points away?

:bslfag:
 
Yeah...and at Bristol of all places, which is an extremely tight track in the first place. That could have been a diaster.

Of course , if Junior would have spun (by deliberation as he admits) and caused a multi-car wreck, he damn sure would never have admitted it.
 
A fine? Seriously? That's like making a kid smoke for catching him smoking!

Some of the poorer sportsman - but richer drivers - would gladly pay a few thousand dollars to have a caution whenever they need it.

Enforce the damn rules and park 'em for a week. It's one thing to endanger yourself but when you NEEDLESSLY puts someone in danger I'd be the first in line to have a word with this person.

I'd rather be on the track with some guy who's smoked pot 3 days ago.
 
Originally posted by steveluvs3@Mar 30 2004, 09:43 PM
NASCAR better do something quick cause "the crap is startin to pile up" IMO I think he should be fined, but no points cause jamie just got fined $10,000 and on probation for spinning out matt on the cool down lap.
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Sorry bro. Points needs to be taken away. I look at it this way. Had he not spun out he would have went a lap down and then went a couple more down when he pitted. He would not have recovered from that. The best I can figure is he would have finished in the mid 20's at best. 25 point deduction which seems to the standard deduction still leaves him with 110 points for the race. That is still more points earned then what he would have earned had he not spun out. They need to make a point and not worry about the backlash of all the Junior fans. If they do not deduct any points then I'll come out a say that NASCAR does not have any balls.
 
Originally posted by Patrick9999@Mar 31 2004, 05:52 AM
Enforce the damn rules and park 'em for a week. It's one thing to endanger yourself but when you NEEDLESSLY puts someone in danger I'd be the first in line to have a word with this person.

I'd rather be on the track with some guy who's smoked pot 3 days ago.
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I think you're getting a little carried away now, park him for a week? Give me a break. :blink:
 
I think he needs to be fined and points deducted, and the penalty should be consistant no matter who the offender is.
 
If he is fined it will be something small. Not much more than walking around money that will easily be made up in increased merchandise sales at the next race for his add notoriety.
They won't take away points. He is the Golden Child set up to win the championship this year. NASCAR is pushing the envelope to get more tickets sold and more viewers on TV.
Why else is his likeness crammed down our collective throats each and every race? Heck, he is constantly being shown during the Busch race just because he's a car owner.
Hopefully they won't do anything. Hopefully people will start to notice. Hopefully NASCAR will realize the errors of their ways and relegate him to Kevin Harvick status. That boy was in the same situation and now you very seldom hear his name mention except to show when someone is passing him. How the mighty have fallen. :blink:
 
Originally posted by Eagle1@Mar 31 2004, 02:39 PM
I think he needs to be fined and points deducted, and the penalty should be consistant no matter who the offender is.
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I agree 100% Eagle1. According to an article from an international news service, fines have been levied in the past for similar offenses although I could find none. The fact remains it is a direct violation of the rules and as such is subject to penalties.

No matter, a fine and point deduction is warranted and necessary to establish and maintain credibility for the governinig body.

After preaching from the highest soap box found on the newly implemented equity within NASCAR, must admit I look like the fool in trying to sell that now.

NASCAR has come a loooooooooong way in being fair and they have some issues to deal with, starting with this one.

Gotta admit, failure to make a call on this one is a major mistake by NASCAR and by blowing it, they make me look bad. Something I alone can do without thier assistance!!!!!!! :bounce:
 
From Jayski:

UPDATE 2: Section 12-4 (N) in the NASCAR Nextel Cup rulebook prohibits such action and lists what type of action is to be taken. It also states Earnhardt could be fined, lose championship points and lose his finishing position in the race.(Roanoke Times)(3-31-2004)
 
One thing about a Bristol race...the message boards really light up with po'd people after it's over!
 
Well 25 points and a pocket change fine seems about right.
 
Originally posted by Gollum@Mar 30 2004, 09:30 PM
I don't really think there is a hatered for JR. At the track Sun.
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Only on this forum.
 
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