the 78 failed post race?

Mr Excitement said:
In a statement released by Furniture Row Racing, team president Joe Garone points the blame for the post-race laser inspection failure of winning driver Martin Truex Jr.'s car at Kevin Harvick.

Furniture Row Racing president Joe Garone does not dispute the findings of a post-race laser inspection that failed the No. 78 car of his compnay's race-winning driver, Martin Truex Jr., following Sunday's NASCAR Sprint Cup Series race at Chicagoland Speedway.

But in a statement released by the Furniture Row on Monday afternoon, Garone did indicate that the organization believes there were extenuating reasons for the failure of Truex's No. 78 Toyota in NASCAR's post-race laser inspection station (LIS).

Garone said the No. 4 car of fellow Chase for the Sprint Cup participant Kevin Harvick was to blame for knocking Truex's car slightly out of whack.

Continued-------------->>> http://www.foxsports.com/nascar/sto...ys-kevin-harvick-to-blame-martin-truex-091916
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:lurk:
 
So how will NASCAR possibly police tolerances when damage from other competitors can throw a car out of whack? All of you advocating for the death penalty will be screaming when your driver's season is ended by a little love tap on the backstretch. Or I guess maybe lets just make NASCAR the no-touching league.
 
Acs said:
So how will NASCAR possibly police tolerances when damage from other competitors can throw a car out of whack? All of you advocating for the death penalty will be screaming when your driver's season is ended by a little love tap on the backstretch. Or I guess maybe lets just make NASCAR the no-touching league.
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careful what you mention....to me its a slippery slope to penalize a competitor for in race contract from someone else.

FLAG NASCAR? :confused:
 
TexasRaceLady said:
What sends shivers through me about taking away wins --- if the laser detects 1/1000th out of tolerance, that
minute amount takes away the win? To me, that's like burning down the house to kill a mosquito.
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I agree but if you give them a tenth of an inch they'll take it and go for a little more until the penalty hurts. Pit road speed is an example where they are given 5mph and they still push it.

NASCAR has to determine what an acceptable margin of error is for post race inspections. Teams have the ability to design fatigue into components that could change inspection parameters during a race. Cars get to bumping and banging and that can affect things. I wouldn't put it past the teams to use team cars to bump each other to get a favorable dent.
 
As with everything, it's either one extreme or another when coming from the court of popular opinion. Leave the win alone, dock points and a free advancement when cars "barely" fail post-race tech... I feel like that would be a happy-medium. JMworthlessO
 
"She was fifteen years old, going on thirty-five, Doc, and she told me she was eighteen, she was very willing, I practically had to take to sewing my pants shut. Between you and me, uh, she might have been fifteen, but when you get that......."

The above quote is from the Randle McMurphy character from "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's nest" discussing being out of tolerance and the consequences of being so.

No matter how hard we try there will always be gray areas and different interpretations but we must ruthlessly eliminate as many as possible and this is especially true for a sport or something wishing to be seen as a sport.
 
How many cars tapped Truex after the checker. Are team mates trying to cover something up?
 
No matter what anyone says here NASCAR is gonna do what they're gonna do.
It's The Chase, man. Suspense for all to see.
 
DUN24 said:
NASCAR picks and chooses who to throw the book at. I feel like a Toyota will come out smelling like a rose. They even went as far as stressing that he was barely out of spec. What difference does it make?!
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What do you base this thought on?

Championship Manufacturer:

2016 Toyota
2015 Chevrolet
2014 Chevrolet
2013 Chevrolet
2012 Chevrolet
2011 Chevrolet
2010 Chevrolet
2009 Chevrolet
2008 Chevrolet
2007 Chevrolet
2006 Chevrolet
2005 Chevrolet
2004 Chevrolet
2003 Chevrolet
2002 Ford
2001 Chevrolet
2000 Ford

Manufacturer - Number of Wins (as of 2015)

Chevy - 753
Ford - 639
Dodge - 217
Plymouth - 190
Pontiac - 155
Oldsmobile - 115
Mercury - 96
Toyota - 79
 
Classic Toyota fans getting their panties in a bunch.

No if you fail inspection, you should be punished. Whether you failed a little or a lot. Whether you drive a Toyota or a Ford or a Chevy.

There were two cars that failed inspection. Jimmie Johnson and Martin Truex. Both drivers should be docked their points. Truex double because he just did the same thing 2 weeks ago. It has nothing to do with make. And it has nothing to do with giving the death penalty for minor infractions. It has everything to do with enforcing the damn rules you have on the books and getting rid of the incentive to cheat to win races.
 
Revman said:
In order for the punishment to fit the crime, there must be flexibility in the interpretation of the rules, or jaywalkers run the risk of firing squads.
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I believe the punishment should fit the crime. As far as interpretation goes, either it is legal or it's not. Either it passes the laser test, or it doesn't. If it doesn't, and you let it pass, you don't need the rule. One thing is for sure, for serious violations, they need to start disqualifying finishes. If they did that, for whatever violation, I'll bet that rule wouldn't be violated any more. Do I think this violation deserves disqualification? Probably not, ( I don't know that much about the laser jig) but I don't know how much of an advantage it gave them. NASCAR needs to make the rules plain, and enforce them when they are violated. They are supposed to be a world class organization, they can't be making this stuff up as they go along.
 
RowdyBusch said:
What do you base this thought on?

Championship Manufacturer:

2016 Toyota
2015 Chevrolet
2014 Chevrolet
2013 Chevrolet
2012 Chevrolet
2011 Chevrolet
2010 Chevrolet
2009 Chevrolet
2008 Chevrolet
2007 Chevrolet
2006 Chevrolet
2005 Chevrolet
2004 Chevrolet
2003 Chevrolet
2002 Ford
2001 Chevrolet
2000 Ford

Manufacturer - Number of Wins (as of 2015)

Chevy - 753
Ford - 639
Toyota - 79
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Those stats plus the money Toyota has been throwing at the sport for the past 10 years are what I base that opinion on.
 
DUN24 said:
Those stats plus the money Toyota has been throwing at the sport for the past 10 years are what I base that opinion on.
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Post the Toyota books. I would love to see them....but I probably wouldn't be surprised. You might be.

TexasRaceLady said:
What sends shivers through me about taking away wins --- if the laser detects 1/1000th out of tolerance, that
minute amount takes away the win? To me, that's like burning down the house to kill a mosquito.
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You must be a Toyota fan. :sarcasm: Fanboi. LOL.

NASCAR fixes, teammates running into winners to cover up cheating, poor attendance, and TV ratings in the ****ter. It's been a full day kids. SMDH. Let's try something different this week, and just enjoy the ****** race. Unreal.
 
I sent an email off to the NFL this morning as Chicago Bears kicker Connor Barth lined up for a field goal last night but the ball hit the upright and bounced to the ground and therefore no points were scored. In my memo to the NFL I explained that the ball almost made it through the uprights therefore the kick was only minutely out of tolerance and therefore should count for something. OK....maybe it should not count for the full 3 points but at least 2 or 2.5 seeing it was less than an inch out of tolerance.

As supporting evidence I explained that in Nascar there was a clear line between what was within tolerance and what was out of tolerance unless things were only out of tolerance a little as that was OK. I explained that I could not quantify what a little out of tolerance meant but not to worry about that for the moment. IDK if I will get an answer but I will post the correspondence if I do.
 
For what it's worth, the advantage the 78 & 48 had (as measured by NASCAR) would amount to roughly .00005 seconds per lap based on engineering data. That's .015 TOTAL seconds over the course of a 300 lap race. It's the NASCAR equivalent of jaywalking. That's why the penalty is a P2, and why NASCAR would never consider taking away a win. To put that in perspective, missing a single lug nut on any one tire on any one pit stop would give you almost 30-40x more of an advantage.

Having said that, a rule is a rule. It was broken, and the proper penalty will be handed out as defined by the rule book. I still have no idea what all the fuss is about. Defined rule + defined penalty = case closed. But for some, no? Why?

I guess it's the smoking gun that NASCAR does a horrible job with the PR & communications effort surrounding inspections and penalties. People hear "failed post race laser inspection" and immediately think "cheater" which immediately leads to "win shouldn't count." They need to do a better job explaining differences in severity and racing effectiveness, and also the scale by which penalties are assessed, and why. Otherwise they find themselves where they are today..."letting cheaters win." Which, when you understand the physics of it, makes little sense. It's NASCAR's job to explain that.
 
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Skoalbandit33 said:
I sent an email off to the NFL this morning as Chicago Bears kicker Connor Barth lined up for a field goal last night but the ball hit the upright and bounced to the ground and therefore no points were scored. In my memo to the NFL I explained that the ball almost made it through the uprights therefore the kick was only minutely out of tolerance and therefore should count for something. OK....maybe it should not count for the full 3 points but at least 2 or 2.5 seeing it was less than an inch out of tolerance.

As supporting evidence I explained that in Nascar there was a clear line between what was within tolerance and what was out of tolerance unless things were only out of tolerance a little as that was OK. I explained that I could not quantify what a little out of tolerance meant but not to worry about that for the moment. IDK if I will get an answer but I will post the correspondence if I do.
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Is this a catch? Is this not a catch? clearly by your logic it should be 100% obvious every time. Dez and the cowboys should be fined and punished for protesting this since it was that clear, don't break the rules and try and cheat Cowboys. Oh and Dez probably drives a Japanese car, you know what they say about those dang Toyoder's.

 
DUN24 said:
I'm just throwing sh!t out there. Calm down fanboi.
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IMO if you lined up 100 Nascar fans and asked them if they had a strong manufacturer preference or felt winning the manufacturer trophy was of any importance you would receive a lot of blank stares. Of course there is always they odd person who deems that sort of thing important just as there are people that feel lumping a driver's lower series wins with cup wins is fair because it doesn't matter if the win in the lower series was akin to taking candy from a baby.

Allenbaba said:
For what it's worth, the advantage the 78 & 48 had (as measured by NASCAR) would amount to roughly .00005 seconds per lap based on engineering data. That's .015 TOTAL seconds over the course of a 300 lap race. It's the NASCAR equivalent of jaywalking. That's way the penalty is a P2, and why NASCAR would never consider taking away a win. To put that in perspective, missing a single lug nut on any one tire on any one pit stop would give you almost 30-40x more of an advantage.

Having said that, a rule is a rule. It was broken, and the proper penalty will be handed out as defined by the rule book. I still have no idea what all the fuss is about. Defined rule + defined penalty = case closed. But for some, no? Why?

I guess it's the smoking gun that NASCAR does a horrible job with the PR & communications effort surrounding inspections and penalties. People hear "failed post race laser inspection" and immediately think "cheater" which immediately leads to "win shouldn't count." They need to do a better job explaining differences in severity and racing effectiveness, and also the scale by which penalties are assessed, and why. Otherwise they find themselves where they are today..."letting cheaters win." Which, when you understand the physics of it, makes little sense. It's NASCAR's job to explain that.
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I think most people would agree that Nascar would screw up a one car funeral so making post race inspection a total cluster is not surprising. What Nascar should do instead of having degrees of punishment for this sort of thing is to set an arbitrary number of what is legal and what is illegal and what the consequences are of having an illegal car.

Acs said:
Is this a catch? Is this not a catch? clearly by your logic it should be 100% obvious every time. Dez and the cowboys should be fined and punished for protesting this since it was that clear, don't break the rules and try and cheat Cowboys. Oh and Dez probably drives a Japanese car, you know what they say about those dang Toyoder's.

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It was a Dallas Cowboy so of course it wasn't a catch.
 
Acs said:
So how will NASCAR possibly police tolerances when damage from other competitors can throw a car out of whack? All of you advocating for the death penalty will be screaming when your driver's season is ended by a little love tap on the backstretch. Or I guess maybe lets just make NASCAR the no-touching league.
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I don't understand WHY bent sheet metal will effect the tolerances between the chassis and the
rear housing alignment. They actually have to bend that housing before installing it in the car.
Are the brackets that hold the housing flexible??
 
Team Penske said:
I don't understand WHY bent sheet metal will effect the tolerances between the chassis and the
rear housing alignment. They actually have to bend that housing before installing it in the car.
Are the brackets that hold the housing flexible??
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The housing is straight. The axle bearing cups are welded to it at various angles to get to the camber and toe angles the teams want.

The mounting components are capable of movement which results in more rear-steer. The swerving is intended to move them back into compliance. Teams failing post-race are starting out too close to the edge of the envelope.
 
Wow things changes since my day. I would spend days with heat and cold in a press to do the same thing. :D
 
Acs said:
Is this a catch? Is this not a catch? clearly by your logic it should be 100% obvious every time. Dez and the cowboys should be fined and punished for protesting this since it was that clear, don't break the rules and try and cheat Cowboys. Oh and Dez probably drives a Japanese car, you know what they say about those dang Toyoder's.

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I went back to look at the video but it said it was blocked for usage by the NFL or something like that. A football catch or non catch cannot be measured by a laser machine for accuracy but coaches have the option of challenging the play if they feel the officials have made the wrong call. I have seen both games Dez was in this year and at his current pace I believe he will have a total of about 800 yards receiving at the end of the year. He has not done a lot since he signed the new contract. IDK what he drives but I have a Tundra and a couple of Nissans in the garage as well as 3 Kawasaki's and a Honda. You can call them foreign if you like but they were all assembled in the USA but my Neighbors Silverado, Impala and Fusion were assembled in Mexico.
 
This whole thread is pretty much 'air out the backside' . Question was asked and answered . (several times)
 
beantownkid10 said:
Classic Toyota fans getting their panties in a bunch.

No if you fail inspection, you should be punished. Whether you failed a little or a lot. Whether you drive a Toyota or a Ford or a Chevy.

There were two cars that failed inspection. Jimmie Johnson and Martin Truex. Both drivers should be docked their points. Truex double because he just did the same thing 2 weeks ago. It has nothing to do with make. And it has nothing to do with giving the death penalty for minor infractions. It has everything to do with enforcing the damn rules you have on the books and getting rid of the incentive to cheat to win races.
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I'm a Toyota fan, and I agree with you.

I know they weren't that far out of tolerance, but the 78 team are multiple offenders at this point.
 
https://twitter.com/jeff_gluck

NASCAR announced the WILL NOT PENALIZE the 48 and 78 teams. Furthermore, all minor penalties for failing post-race LIS are removed, the major P4 penalty including an encumbered win will still remain. All chase drivers will now go through LIS.
 
Acs said:
https://twitter.com/jeff_gluck

NASCAR announced the WILL NOT PENALIZE the 48 and 78 teams. Furthermore, all minor penalties for failing post-race LIS are removed, the major P4 penalty including an encumbered win will still remain. All chase drivers will now go through LIS.
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OMG! Hell froze over. Good job Nascar. I can't believe we are on the same page with that. :eek:
 
Acs said:
https://twitter.com/jeff_gluck

NASCAR announced the WILL NOT PENALIZE the 48 and 78 teams. Furthermore, all minor penalties for failing post-race LIS are removed, the major P4 penalty including an encumbered win will still remain. All chase drivers will now go through LIS.
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WTF? Bad choice to change the rules now, IMO. Looks bad. Is bad.
 
I think it is a good change. Before people were going crazy because it was such a minor infraction. I even read that it could have been because Harvick tapped him after the checkers. All the cars swerving after the race was to get the car to settle right? The measurement is too tight. 400-500 miles and the car is supposed to be the same as when it started? In my mind, that's crazy.
 
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