Thoughts on Matt Kenseth's Fine

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Nascar has really lowered the boom on JGR for this infraction. I heard one sportscaster say that the weight of the connecting rod in question was the amount of 2 cotton balls under the limit. Sonds like Nascar is really lowering the boom on teams this year. Feel bad for the JGR team, this could really put a damper on their championship hopes.
 
NASCAR has come down hard before on engine infractions and it's done so again. Nothing new here. I guess they'll get it worked out in appeal. As far as 2 cotton balls goes..... I'd guess like everything else there's a tolerance built in and they exceeded it. Out of spec, out of line. Fines warranted. Sucks for them but you've got to play within the rules or get caught.
 
All of the technicals dont mean a thang.
What matters most is what has been said.

After Matts unfortunate complaints that is woefully detrimental to:
Nascar, America, all of racing, Darby, Metcalfe, Pemberton, Nelson, Bill, Bill Jr, Lisa, and especially Brian and the shareholders, Matt needs to be executed.
We just cant have drivers saying what they think.
 
TRD is the one who screwed up here and there was no mechanical advantage. Still, they got caught being out of spec. Taking points is what hurts. The fines and suspensions are minor in my mind. 200K is a drop in the bucket for TRD/Gibbs and the crew chiefs can make the calls from across the street on a cell phone.
 
ozz said:
I see they use TRD engines.I wonder what Kyles rods weighed?
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I guess we'll never know. He wasn't one of the randoms chosen to check out. Even if he was, they probably couldn't have shoved what was left of it into the back of the NASCAR hauler to take back to R&D.

They'll probably be checking it out next week after he wins Richmond.
 
On Nascar radio they said they tore down all the TRD engines for all teams overnight and two engines were out of spec and a third was so close it wasn't worth the risk.
 
harkin said:
On Nascar radio they said they tore down all the TRD engines for all teams overnight and two engines were out of spec and a third was so close it wasn't worth the risk.
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One has to think it's an assembly error because the risk out weighs the gain by far.
 
NASCAR has been extremely over the top this year with everything. Most of what still gets me is the lack of being able to say what you think. What the hell is the point of an interview? As far as kenseth goes, sure, penalties are warranted, and Matt has pretty much said such. But the severity of the infraction is I think what is so questionable
 
TRD is in the engine business and knows what all the rules are. Whether intentional or ignorantly TRD still sent customers engines that do not conform to NASCAR rules which potentially put car owners, drivers and their sponsors reputations at risk of serious damage. The 20 car is essentially out of business for 2013. I wonder what it feels like to be the sponsor on that car?
 
They had an illegal part in their engine. The penalty 100% fits the infraction.
 
They need to break down jgr's Nationwide cars and his trucks, wouldnt be a big surprise if they were juiced up also.
 
Johali said:
They need to break down jgr's Nationwide cars and his trucks, wouldnt be a big surprise if they were juiced up also.
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I'd bet that TRD is already ahead of the curve on this one. I think this weeks events, regardless of who get penalized, says far more about TRD then is does JGR. This falls clearly on their shoulders for blame. I'd guess it has some teams thinking about further association with TRD. How could it not? The put their trust in them to be producing engines up to spec and they failed. Not good. Not good at all.
 
It's like they up the penalties every time someone gets one lol. Wonder whats going to happen if they find a car outside the rules this week... 1000 points.. 10 million dollar fine and Brian France gets a night with the guys wife.
 
Johali said:
They need to break down jgr's Nationwide cars and his trucks, wouldnt be a big surprise if they were juiced up also.
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I assume that you are kidding with 'the juiced up ' reference . Having lightweight rods ,while not helping performance , could be the cause of some of their engine failures .I think that it is a good thing for JGR that this stuff has come to light .We'll see .
 
I don't care about the fine but 50 points is excessive IMO, for an infraction that, not only was the fault of a subbed-out engine shop, but resulted in zero performance advantage.
 
ted@economy said:
I assume that you are kidding with 'the juiced up ' reference . Having lightweight rods ,while not helping performance , could be the cause of some of their engine failures .I think that it is a good thing for JGR that this stuff has come to light .We'll see .
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Ted I refuse to admit that the above statement may have been a rare instance of me
But it would explain a monkey being able to win races in one of their nationwide cars and their trucks.
 
DP give us a link to a man that lost his race team and company a couple of years ago due to inner engine infractions, I cant find one.
 
But,but,but the rulez say it can't weigh less than X. It did. Performance advantage or not it was underweight and deserves a penalty. But in this case IMO the penalty is not only excessive but is pure chicken****.
 
They slapped Carl Long very hard and I think he had a Yates engine. He most likely never removed the heads or anything (probably forbidden by Yates). If they can do that to Long with his limitations, the penalties are fairly consistent. Note: The Long incident was not even a points paying event, and the engine was seized during practice.

I may have a different opinion on the harshness, but it doesnt matter, Nascar knows more about controlling rules than I do. Seems like Nascar is doing more to punish the CC and others now, but an unenforced rule is pointless.

I think Matt will rebound and make the chase, losing the 3 chase bonus points could be the biggest problem. But it is better for TRDs problem to be exposed now, they can address the problem, better calibrate their weights and quality controls now. That's better than discovery during the chase.
Thats all you can do, learn and move on, fair or unfair.
 
I can see the how penalties could be deemed excessive . This is a new age when sponsors are everything . Cheating may effect the bottom line in other ways too . Nascar needs to get together with race teams and sponsors and see if the old penalty system is the ONLY alternative . They came up with the Gen 6 car together , maybe they could revamp the penalty system together . I'll bring that up with Bill France over lunch.
 
The penalty may be harsh, but the one consistency NASCAR has shown over the years is rules about the engines. There is NO wiggle room with the engine. For as long as I can remember, engines are sacrosanct --- it's either legal, or it's not. They don't "give" a tolerance.

I have a feeling that TRD has already hit the floor running on this one. They will be holding their suppliers' feet to the fire from now on.
 
Two cotton balls????? It is more the weight of a penny. LOL

And yes, cheating is cheatihng, TRD knows the rules.
 
48willalwaysbeacheater said:
2 cotton balls under the limit LOL what a ******* joke this sport has become with their brain dead executives
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Note to self: Check rabbit racing rules.
Answer : 2 cotton balls still out of tolerance, half population has 2, other half 0, average =1 = Dq
 
Greg said:
They slapped Carl Long very hard and I think he had a Yates engine. He most likely never removed the heads or anything (probably forbidden by Yates). If they can do that to Long with his limitations, the penalties are fairly consistent. Note: The Long incident was not even a points paying event, and the engine was seized during practice.

I may have a different opinion on the harshness, but it doesnt matter, Nascar knows more about controlling rules than I do. Seems like Nascar is doing more to punish the CC and others now, but an unenforced rule is pointless.

I think Matt will rebound and make the chase, losing the 3 chase bonus points could be the biggest problem. But it is better for TRDs problem to be exposed now, they can address the problem, better calibrate their weights and quality controls now. That's better than discovery during the chase.
Thats all you can do, learn and move on, fair or unfair.
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It's been awhile so I my be wrong but I think Long purchased that engine and did freshen it once.
Now on to Kenseth. I don't know what the answer is but something has to change, fining and penalizing a team for something they have no control over is simply BS! When a team buys a chasis or a full car everything is out in the open, tubes can measured body panels can be checked and every car goes through inspection before it hits the track. A team can't do that with an engine it comes sealed, so to dock the driver and fine a team who has nothing to with anything is complete garbage and has to change . For the life of me I don't know why the teams don't stand up to this. But anyway if this doesn't change I'm done, I'm sick of watching NASCAR flex it's muscles and coming down on teams for nothing.
 
But teams also buy their shocks , brakes , transmissions , fuel ,tires , everything from outside suppliers . Would they be responsible for anything ? Or could they just say 'Not Ours? . Suppliers could drum up business by having a reputation for skirting the rules .
 
Why don't they put the exact same engine in every car, no matter who the manufacturer is. That way NASCAR becomes even more boring. Seems like that's what they're aiming for.
 
IMO, nascar needs to start looking at intent when deciding on what penalty to give out. I'm not sure it would make a difference in this case, but they equate a car being a little too low with a team that acid dips their body panels to save weight.

Here's something I don't believe. TRD said they don't have the manpower to weight the connecting rods, but don't they have to do that to balance the engine properly?
 
I grew up with the engine rules being written in granite and the engine being the untouchable part of the car. Mess with the engine, no matter who does it, and the sky will fall on you. And I like it that way.
 
ted@economy said:
But teams also buy their shocks , brakes , transmissions , fuel ,tires , everything from outside suppliers . Would they be responsible for anything ? Or could they just say 'Not Ours? . Suppliers could drum up business by having a reputation for skirting the rules .
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Like I said I don't have the answer, but yes if I buy a set of shocks I am not held responsible for manufacture defects, plain and simple. Same thing for a race team if they buy Penske shocks the builder is responsible, maybe they need to go a stamped sealed system where every engine, shock is stamped and sealed with the builders name on it, if the seal is broken the team is responsible for it. As for every thing else they can all be inspected I'm talking about things that are sealed like engines and shocks.
 
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