Enough Is Enough Full Season Championship.

Blaze said:
I broke it all down for you, and you chose to ignore it..

Right here..
Click to expand...
I didn't ignore it...your argument has merit...but I am not sure that I completely agree. Please forgive me. I think there is something very special about forcing four teams into a crucial situation like the current format. I don't know if you have ever been to a Championship event, but what resonates with me is the absolute "all hands on deck" vibe in the garage. There is something incredible about the teams setting up a car for the most crucial race of the year.....something different about the thrash on a Friday night if the set up isn't competitive--and the fact that all team members are collaborating to fix it ......something awesome about the vibe when the set up is right.....something breathtaking on race morning when it is all on the line. I get that "many of us" don't think that this honors what racing has always been, but who says we have to? I think that there is also an assumption that a championship event should crown the best driver from the year. I don't agree. This is the paradigm shift that never gets discussed because a pissing war over the format always ensues. If you are operating on the belief that the champion should be the best driver from the year, then okay, the current format does not necessarily support that all of the time. If you will allow yourself to see the championship event as an opportunity for four drivers to to be the best on that weekend---and that being the best when you must be the best can define a champion--then the current format works just fine. If is a matter of opinion with no perfect solution, but so often, we get into this discussion, and like so many other topics, it becomes divisive when it doesn't really need to be. I am curious, however, to know how many people who hate the current format have never been to the championship event? I wonder.
 
Revman said:
I didn't ignore it...your argument has merit...but I am not sure that I completely agree. Please forgive me. I think there is something very special about forcing four teams into a crucial situation like the current format. I don't know if you have ever been to a Championship event, but what resonates with me is the absolute "all hands on deck" vibe in the garage. There is something incredible about the teams setting up a car for the most crucial race of the year.....something different about the thrash on a Friday night if the set up isn't competitive--and the fact that all team members are collaborating to fix it ......something awesome about the vibe when the set up is right.....something breathtaking on race morning when it is all on the line. I get that "many of us" don't think that this honors what racing has always been, but who says we have to? I think that there is also an assumption that a championship event should crown the best driver from the year. I don't agree. This is the paradigm shift that never gets discussed because a pissing war over the format always ensues. If you are operating on the belief that the champion should be the best driver from the year, then okay, the current format does not necessarily support that all of the time. If you will allow yourself to see the championship event as an opportunity for four drivers to to be the best on that weekend---and that being the best when you must be the best can define a champion--then the current format works just fine. If is a matter of opinion with no perfect solution, but so often, we get into this discussion, and like so many other topics, it becomes divisive when it doesn't really need to be. I am curious, however, to know how many people who hate the current format have never been to the championship event? I wonder.
Click to expand...
You kind of lost me there. If we’re not crowning a champion based on the full season, my question is what’s are we doing here? If you’re content with just a championship weekend, then by that logic let’s just not have 35 races, make it a 1 race championship and crown them that way. My whole thing has been when you have a one race championship, it kind of negates the previous 35 races and makes it a waste of time.
 


:p
1750434725547.png
 
Revman said:
I didn't ignore it...your argument has merit...but I am not sure that I completely agree. Please forgive me. I think there is something very special about forcing four teams into a crucial situation like the current format. I don't know if you have ever been to a Championship event, but what resonates with me is the absolute "all hands on deck" vibe in the garage. There is something incredible about the teams setting up a car for the most crucial race of the year.....something different about the thrash on a Friday night if the set up isn't competitive--and the fact that all team members are collaborating to fix it ......something awesome about the vibe when the set up is right.....something breathtaking on race morning when it is all on the line. I get that "many of us" don't think that this honors what racing has always been, but who says we have to? I think that there is also an assumption that a championship event should crown the best driver from the year. I don't agree. This is the paradigm shift that never gets discussed because a pissing war over the format always ensues. If you are operating on the belief that the champion should be the best driver from the year, then okay, the current format does not necessarily support that all of the time. If you will allow yourself to see the championship event as an opportunity for four drivers to to be the best on that weekend---and that being the best when you must be the best can define a champion--then the current format works just fine. If is a matter of opinion with no perfect solution, but so often, we get into this discussion, and like so many other topics, it becomes divisive when it doesn't really need to be. I am curious, however, to know how many people who hate the current format have never been to the championship event? I wonder.
Click to expand...
No I not been, but that wouldn't change my mind at all. I'd still enjoy the race like any other race I've been to. Like maybe MAYBE if it was actually the 4 best drivers all year in the championship race, perhaps I could kinda accept that. But even then I much much prefer a full season championship. Because the way it is right now... you only got to be good like 5 races out of 36?

Win one to get in.
Win in round of 16 to advance
Win in round 12 to advance
Win in round of 8 to advance
Then win championship weekend and boom champion.

Could've finished dead last every other single week.

A system where that's possible, even as unlikely as it is, doesn't sit well with me. Never will. No matter if I go to the championship race or not.
 
Revman said:
If you will allow yourself to see the championship event as an opportunity for four drivers to to be the best on that weekend---and that being the best when you must be the best can define a champion--then the current format works just fine.
Click to expand...
I -might- possibly agree with you IF those four were the only ones out there. There are 32+ other drivers trying to win and improve their season standings. It's highly likely one of those drivers will do something that will affect those championship 4. Having to compete for a title with 32 jammers outside the finalists' control is inherently unfair. Spreading the decision out over at least 3 races minimizes the collateral effects (although it doesn't eliminate them entirely).

And who wants to watch 312 laps of just four cars? Although that is all NBC often gives attention to...
 
Blaze said:
Win one to get in.
Win in round of 16 to advance
Win in round 12 to advance
Win in round of 8 to advance
Then win championship weekend and boom champion.
Click to expand...
A 5 win season. Championship caliber stuff.
 
Blaze said:
Let's just ignore the part where I said he finished dead last the rest of the year yeah? Or me saying he was only good 5 weeks out of the 36...we're just going to act like i didn't say any of that right?
Click to expand...
A 5 win season is a realistic possibility.

I didn’t ignore anything … I simply filed the nonsense appropriately. Finishing dead last 31 times in a season cannot form part of an intelligent back and forth on this topic.
 
aunty dive said:
A 5 win season is a realistic possibility.

I didn’t ignore anything … I simply filed the nonsense appropriately. Finishing dead last 31 times in a season cannot form part of an intelligent back and forth on this topic.
Click to expand...
I said that it's not likely, but the fact the system could allow it to happen is my problem. So you are actually ignoring it. It doesn't even gotta be dead last really. I just used it as an example. Around 25th-30th or worse every week work better for you?
 
Blaze said:
Let's just ignore the part where I said he finished dead last the rest of the year yeah? Or me saying he was only good 5 weeks out of the 36...we're just going to act like i didn't say any of that right?
Click to expand...
Well I think you have to be top 30 in points to qualify for the playoffs in this format. So I assume if you’re finishing last in all the other races you don’t win, you’re not even getting an invite to this almost all inclusive playoff system.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
Well I think you have to be top 30 in points to qualify for the playoffs in this format. So I assume if you’re finishing last in all the other races you don’t win, you’re not even getting an invite to this almost all inclusive playoff system.
Click to expand...
Nah they got rid of that rule a couple seasons or so ago. It's how Harrison Burton got in with his win last year
 
Blaze said:
I said that it's not likely, but the fact the system could allow it to happen is my problem. So you are actually ignoring it. It doesn't even gotta be dead last really. I just used it as an example. Around 25th-30th or worse every week work better for you?
Click to expand...

A realistic discussion, free from hyperbole, works for me.

5 wins and 31 25th-30th finishes is well beyond unlikely.

What also works for me … a 26 race regular season that pays the leading car a huge bonus followed by a10 race total points “playoff” among the top 16 to determine the Cup Champion. Make 2 big deals out of it all.
 
aunty dive said:
A realistic discussion, free from hyperbole, works for me.

5 wins and 31 25th-30th finishes is well beyond unlikely.

What also works for me … a 26 race regular season that pays the leading car a huge bonus followed by a10 race total points “playoff” among the top 16 to determine the Cup Champion. Make 2 big deals out of it all.
Click to expand...
So anything that exposes the issue with your precious playoffs is off the table? Got it. No need to continue when you can just pull a Hulk Hogan and say "that doesn't work for me brother.' Goodbye.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
Whoops. I suppose I should know more about the thing I hate and am complaining about
Click to expand...
Eh, I don't think so. People been complaining about nothing they know about for years on here lol. I would like to see somebody list all of the things a Nascar style playoff is good for myself by one of the playoff lovers.
 
The championship could be decided by having one representative from each of the three car brands.

"Divisions" would be the term rather than "brands" it just sounds playoffie and is more gerbil friendly.

The Wild Card fourth entry into the game seven race would go the best driver that didn't win one of the three divisions.
 
Greg said:
The championship could be decided by having one representative from each of the three car brands.

"Divisions" would be the term rather than "brands" it just sounds playoffie and is more gerbil friendly.

The Wild Card fourth entry into the game seven race would go the best driver that didn't win one of the three divisions.
Click to expand...
Or no.
 
Blaze said:
No I not been, but that wouldn't change my mind at all. I'd still enjoy the race like any other race I've been to. Like maybe MAYBE if it was actually the 4 best drivers all year in the championship race, perhaps I could kinda accept that. But even then I much much prefer a full season championship. Because the way it is right now... you only got to be good like 5 races out of 36?

Win one to get in.
Win in round of 16 to advance
Win in round 12 to advance
Win in round of 8 to advance
Then win championship weekend and boom champion.

Could've finished dead last every other single week.

A system where that's possible, even as unlikely as it is, doesn't sit well with me. Never will. No matter if I go to the championship race or not.
Click to expand...
I trust your assessment of how you would feel if you were to be in person. Having said that, we all agree that you cannot adequately explain a race experience to somebody who has not been there. I think that this applies here as well. Again, I am not questioning your self-assessment, but there is something very cool about four teams going at each other....I think it would be cool even if it wasn't a championship event. I will miss it next year, but I will be in Phoenix for whatever position it gets in the Playoffs....and then for the championship again....and probably Vegas as well. I can't get enough of that environment.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
You kind of lost me there. If we’re not crowning a champion based on the full season, my question is what’s are we doing here? If you’re content with just a championship weekend, then by that logic let’s just not have 35 races, make it a 1 race championship and crown them that way. My whole thing has been when you have a one race championship, it kind of negates the previous 35 races and makes it a waste of time.
Click to expand...
I think many championships do not reward the best team from the year. The idea in my mind is to position yourself in a championship event, and win it. I love the Yankees. The '78 Yankees were certainly not the best team all year, but they are World Series Champions. By some of the logic I see here, baseball fans should have been pissed, and revolted. Additionally, anybody who appreciated what the Yankees did is not a true fan of the sport. The Detroit Lions were easily one of the best teams in football last year, and **** themselves by losing in the first round. So unfair that one loss prevents them from getting into a Super Bowl after such an excellent season, right?
 
Revman said:
I think many championships do not reward the best team from the year. The idea in my mind is to position yourself in a championship event, and win it. I love the Yankees. The '78 Yankees were certainly not the best team all year, but they are World Series Champions. By some of the logic I see here, baseball fans should have been pissed, and revolted. Additionally, anybody who appreciated what the Yankees did is not a true fan of the sport. The Detroit Lions were easily one of the best teams in football last year, and **** themselves by losing in the first round. So unfair that one loss prevents them from getting into a Super Bowl after such an excellent season, right?
Click to expand...

Racing isn't comparable to baseball, football, or any other sport. Terrible argument, for a million reasons that have been explained a million times. Apples and elephants.
 
Revman said:
Again, I am not questioning your self-assessment, but there is something very cool about four teams going at each other
Click to expand...
Ever see those race highlights where the top two or three cars finish within less than a car length of each other ONLY because there was a restart two laps earlier? Sure, it's exciting but compare it to Darlington with Craven, Busch, and Blaney. The last caution in that one was a full 50 laps before the finish but produced the closest finish in history at that time.

That's the difference between four guys going at it only because they were reset for the last race vs. two or three guys going at it over the course of 36 races.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Ever see those race highlights where the top two or three cars finish within less than a car length of each other ONLY because there was a restart two laps earlier? Sure, it's exciting but compare it to Darlington with Craven, Busch, and Blaney. The last caution in that one was a full 50 laps before the finish but produced the closest finish in history at that time.

That's the difference between four guys going at it only because they were reset for the last race vs. two or three guys going at it over the course of 36 races.
Click to expand...

Same reason why a "final four" championship race in the current format will NEVER compare to something like Atlanta '92. Couldn't even come close.

And even the years when Earnhardt had the title locked up with one or two races left? Those final races of the season were still sellouts. Hmm, imagine that....
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Ever see those race highlights where the top two or three cars finish within less than a car length of each other ONLY because there was a restart two laps earlier? Sure, it's exciting but compare it to Darlington with Craven, Busch, and Blaney. The last caution in that one was a full 50 laps before the finish but produced the closest finish in history at that time.

That's the difference between four guys going at it only because they were reset for the last race vs. two or three guys going at it over the course of 36 races.
Click to expand...
Well said....and good point.
 
2 Sweet said:
Racing isn't comparable to baseball, football, or any other sport. Terrible argument, for a million reasons that have been explained a million times. Apples and elephants.
Click to expand...
I don't agree....a million times.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Ever see those race highlights where the top two or three cars finish within less than a car length of each other ONLY because there was a restart two laps earlier? Sure, it's exciting but compare it to Darlington with Craven, Busch, and Blaney. The last caution in that one was a full 50 laps before the finish but produced the closest finish in history at that time.

That's the difference between four guys going at it only because they were reset for the last race vs. two or three guys going at it over the course of 36 races.
Click to expand...
Because it is not fashionable to support the current format, the fact that Christopher Bell has been one of the most clutch drivers ever with his path to the Championship often gets forgotten....and the very system that offered that stage, stung him last year....although many get hung up on manufacturer collusion--which is a fancy term for what Chevy did--as the reason he was not part of the Championship. Unfortunate....Christopher had some epic drives to get a shot.
 
2 Sweet said:
Same reason why a "final four" championship race in the current format will NEVER compare to something like Atlanta '92.
Click to expand...
Exactly, and that's why we still talk about it over thirty years later. How many finishes in the playoff era do we still discuss? Stewart and Edwards. They're special because they don't happen every year. You can try to force a Game 7 moment but it doesn't mean as much.
 
Revman said:
Because it is not fashionable to support the current format, the fact that Christopher Bell has been one of the most clutch drivers ever with his path to the Championship often gets forgotten....and the very system that offered that stage, stung him last year....although many get hung up on manufacturer collusion--which is a fancy term for what Chevy did--as the reason he was not part of the Championship. Unfortunate....Christopher had some epic drives to get a shot.
Click to expand...
Don't pass the 11? How soon we forget eh? This playoff B.S. for years is riddled with cheating and it appears that it matters to some who gets by with it and who gets cheated. Reguardless, the more gimmicks they add, the more opportunities there are for cheating.
 
Revman said:
I think many championships do not reward the best team from the year. The idea in my mind is to position yourself in a championship event, and win it. I love the Yankees. The '78 Yankees were certainly not the best team all year, but they are World Series Champions. By some of the logic I see here, baseball fans should have been pissed, and revolted. Additionally, anybody who appreciated what the Yankees did is not a true fan of the sport. The Detroit Lions were easily one of the best teams in football last year, and **** themselves by losing in the first round. So unfair that one loss prevents them from getting into a Super Bowl after such an excellent season, right?
Click to expand...
Racing isn’t comparable to stick and ball sports. For the sake of comparison, Indy Car uses a full season championship, they seem to survive just fine and in fact more than fine as their season comes down to the last race or few races a year to decide who is champion. F1 uses a full season championship format and look at that, the most popular form of motorsport in the world.
 
Revman said:
I think many championships do not reward the best team from the year. The idea in my mind is to position yourself in a championship event, and win it. I love the Yankees. The '78 Yankees were certainly not the best team all year, but they are World Series Champions. By some of the logic I see here, baseball fans should have been pissed, and revolted. Additionally, anybody who appreciated what the Yankees did is not a true fan of the sport. The Detroit Lions were easily one of the best teams in football last year, and **** themselves by losing in the first round. So unfair that one loss prevents them from getting into a Super Bowl after such an excellent season, right?
Click to expand...
This was all already covered by me...

Those sports = you don't play everyone every week. Its one team vs another team. Thus why playoffs are needed to find a champion. Plus you can't just win one game and be in the playoffs either....

NASCAR: All full time drivers and teams are there every week racing every race. Every driver has the same amount of chances to be the one with the best day and gain the most points over the whole season.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom