23XI statement on not signing Charter agreement

DaleJrFan2003 said:
Catching up with this thread always makes my head hurt. We're reaching page 200 for sure.

I have so many thoughts, but I guess I'll condense it down to this: best case scenario is neither side wins.
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Ken Burns is already contracted to do a documentary on this thread, with the actual case and trial only servIng as the backdrop.
 
kkfan91 said:
Denny feels like the kind of guy who would not have passed the lesson I taught to high school freshman a few weeks ago on the differences between criminal and civil court. But would be the first to cry about rights.
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Most people will need a case to be connected to some type of violent and hyenaous crime before they will watch it on TV. So they only learn the criminal law stuff.
 
If you get a chance listen to the money lap podcast talking about this. They basically said it takes as much money to run a race team as you can get your hands on, so asking for 20 mil a year and claiming thats enough is pointless because then teams will spend 25 mil.

Also talked how funny it is that they want nascar to give them enough money to completely run their race team so the teams themselves have zero financial risk. What other business in the world operates like that? You realize what the price of charters would be since is pretty much a guaranteed return on investment?
 
wi_racefan said:
If you get a chance listen to the money lap podcast talking about this. They basically said it takes as much money to run a race team as you can get your hands on, so asking for 20 mil a year and claiming thats enough is pointless because then teams will spend 25 mil.

Also talked how funny it is that they want nascar to give them enough money to completely run their race team so the teams themselves have zero financial risk. What other business in the world operates like that? You realize what the price of charters would be since is pretty much a guaranteed return on investment?
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Problem is, most of that jury doesn't have a clue that is how it works.
 
I don't have the patience to post much the way this thing is working at present. This streams pretty good about today in court.

 
I found the Bob Jenkins testimony interesting.

Claimed such losses having to go to the new car. Basically he was running old equipment and was forced to come up to a level of the rest of the field.

Claimed losses for several years, but made something like 12 million off selling/leasing charters. Said those are not part of his yearly costs.

Claims losses but doesn't maximize his sponsorship. Whenever Long Johns Silvers is on the car he doesn't get any money for that because his kids own that franchise. He also runs some of his other companies on the cars, which he doesn’t charge himself for.

Will be interesting to see how the jury sees that
 
wi_racefan said:
Claims losses but doesn't maximize his sponsorship. Whenever Long Johns Silvers is on the car he doesn't get any money for that because his kids own that franchise. He also runs some of his other companies on the cars, which he doesn’t charge himself for
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Documentation please, showing his fast food companies don't pay for being on the cars. Otherwise you're making an unsupported assumption.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Documentation please, showing his fast food companies don't pay for being on the cars. Otherwise you're making an unsupported assumption.
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It was part of his testimony that he doesnt charge long johns silvers for sponsorship. Was talked about in length during his testimony and talked about on the recap on the teardown
 
wi_racefan said:
Also talked how funny it is that they want nascar to give them enough money to completely run their race team so the teams themselves have zero financial risk. What other business in the world operates like that? You realize what the price of charters would be since is pretty much a guaranteed return on investment?
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Again, literally: Formula 1. And buying into F1 is assumed to be 600+ million. So yeah, I'm sure the NASCAR teams would like a scenario like that. Why wouldn't they?
 
wi_racefan said:
I found the Bob Jenkins testimony interesting.

Claimed such losses having to go to the new car. Basically he was running old equipment and was forced to come up to a level of the rest of the field.

Claimed losses for several years, but made something like 12 million off selling/leasing charters. Said those are not part of his yearly costs.

Claims losses but doesn't maximize his sponsorship. Whenever Long Johns Silvers is on the car he doesn't get any money for that because his kids own that franchise. He also runs some of his other companies on the cars, which he doesn’t charge himself for.

Will be interesting to see how the jury sees that
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He's quite a weasel. Makes sense he is suing, probably not paying any where's close to his fair share there wither.
 
wi_racefan said:
It was part of his testimony that he doesnt charge long johns silvers for sponsorship. Was talked about in length during his testimony and talked about on the recap on the teardown
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Thanks. Then not only is he missing a revenue source, he's missing the restaurant business being able to record an advertising expense.
 
Here is that genius Hambone not comprehending that France doesn't want New York City guys owning teams is that Jim France means equity group/owners.

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Something I thought of this morning.... with few exceptions, the world of oval racing has contracted the past 15 years. At every level, drivers and teams have been asked to do more with less year after year. Hamlin is one of the last drivers that was here for the peak of NASCAR. Seems like he wants to hang onto the private jets, the $10 million mansion, and get the big investors, brands, and sponsors for his team. The ROI is not there because 23XI spends money like crazy then run like dog**** most weeks. The longer this trial goes on and the more that comes out it seems like Hamlin and 23XI are on their own island actively battling NASCAR but aloof from the other teams as well. 23XI could win this trial and get everything they want and more and there's still not enough $$$ in the sport to run the business like its 2006.
 
Speedbowl14 said:
Something I thought of this morning.... with few exceptions, the world of oval racing has contracted the past 15 years. At every level, drivers and teams have been asked to do more with less year after year. Hamlin is one of the last drivers that was here for the peak of NASCAR. Seems like he wants to hang onto the private jets, the $10 million mansion, and get the big investors, brands, and sponsors for his team. The ROI is not there because 23XI spends money like crazy then run like dog**** most weeks. The longer this trial goes on and the more that comes out it seems like Hamlin and 23XI are on their own island actively battling NASCAR but aloof from the other teams as well. 23XI could win this trial and get everything they want and more and there's still not enough $$$ in the sport to run the business like its 2006.
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Jim France telling Hamlin he needs to shoot for 10 million a car is not a fairy tale. What did they do? Built a tennis shoe mahal.
 
I think this whole case is what happens when business people try to run a sport/sports team.

Bob admits that he goes to the shop only only a handful of times a year, as well only attending a few races.

I also found it amusing that the losses that FRM were claiming also included his truck team. When questioned about this Bob couldn't give a good answer as to why they were all presented as a loss when the truck team loss has nothing to do with charters.......
 
wi_racefan said:
I think this whole case is what happens when business people try to run a sport/sports team.

Bob admits that he goes to the shop only only a handful of times a year, as well only attending a few races.

I also found it amusing that the losses that FRM were claiming also included his truck team. When questioned about this Bob couldn't give a good answer as to why they were all presented as a loss when the truck team loss has nothing to do with charters.......
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Ya think a guy notoriously tight with his money forgot he did that? Lol. Notice he also had a Christian school/fund he wanted Tifft to contribute money too. Kinda looks like money laundering to me or at the very least a tax free shelter.
 
Jenkins also had another hole poked in him (at least IMO) about how the take it or leave it deadlines were unfair. It came to light that Denny was in negations to purchase the FRM charters to form a 3 car team (50% MJ, 30% Denny and 20% Bob) and Bob gave Denny a Friday night take it or leave it offer.

Denny ultimately didn't take it, but the underhanded thing that came out was Bob told Jerry Freeze to contact RWR, who was also in negations with Denny to buy a charter , to tell them "charge him whatever you want because we're out"

I believe 23XI ended up with the Starcom charter at the end of the day.
 
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