What Do you Think of the New Package?

Results so far:

1.5 mile tracks are still spread out just a lot slower.

Previously good tracks of Fontana, Phoenix, and Martinsville are boring follow the leader affairs where it's impossible to pass.

Let me guess though, next week at Texas is when we're going to finally see how awesome it is.
 
From a product standpoint the 2019 rules totally suck, IMO. However it is too early to call the rules a success or failure on the business side of things.
 
Cholo said:
Results so far:

1.5 mile tracks are still spread out just a lot slower.

Previously good tracks of Fontana, Phoenix, and Martinsville are boring follow the leader affairs where it's impossible to pass.

Let me guess though, next week at Texas is when we're going to finally see how awesome it is.
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I think you are quite wrong on that. Yes Brad led most of the race but it sure wasn't a cake walk.
If 2 or more drivers were a little smarter they could have raced him. Instead they were to busy racing each other. That allowed Brad to be a little easier on his car and when it counted he was able to hold them off. People who may have challenged him were to busy trying to over come dumb pit crew mistakes or their own. I saw a lot of racing all over the track. Sorry you missed it.
I really want to hear from the people who were at the track and get their opinion.
 
i now find myself just listening to the race audio,
while playing word google games on my phone.
i think i can see the nascar exit for me.
after 40 years.
does anyone know how to return this package to sender?
 
In the rate the race thread (which I don't want to hijack) someone mentioned how great it was watching the 2, 9, 18 and 12 battle it out to the end. Sorry, on that last restart, there was never a threat from that point on that any of those guys were going to catch the 2 or even pass each other. They ended up exactly like that after 40+ laps of "racing"....2, 9, 18 and 12. It was never in doubt. Passing was impossible yesterday. Again, the worst Martinsville race I've watched in the last 10 years or so.

There are SIX pages...SIX...for the race thread yesterday. Literally the only thing to talk about was Bowyer speeding 2X. I know there can be multiple reasons for only 6 pages on a race thread but I doubt the whole board was on a Carnival Cruise line yesterday. Most race threads are14-18 pages.
 
Revman said:
The racing is fabulous, and the bitching is a complete joke. I hope to God that NASCAR ignores the negative bull****, and keeps the course.
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I thought Vegas was a ton better...I thought Martinsville was atrocious. Usually those have been reversed so I guess its a wash.
 
Flyer22 said:
I thought Vegas was a ton better...I thought Martinsville was atrocious. Usually those have been reversed so I guess its a wash.
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You need raceview or something. There was plenty of action through the field. The racing was damn good.
 
Flyer22 said:
In the rate the race thread (which I don't want to hijack) someone mentioned how great it was watching the 2, 9, 18 and 12 battle it out to the end. Sorry, on that last restart, there was never a threat from that point on that any of those guys were going to catch the 2 or even pass each other. They ended up exactly like that after 40+ laps of "racing"....2, 9, 18 and 12. It was never in doubt. Passing was impossible yesterday. Again, the worst Martinsville race I've watched in the last 10 years or so.

There are SIX pages...SIX...for the race thread yesterday. Literally the only thing to talk about was Bowyer speeding 2X. I know there can be multiple reasons for only 6 pages on a race thread but I doubt the whole board was on a Carnival Cruise line yesterday. Most race threads are14-18 pages.
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Like you I wondered about 2-9-18 and 12 battling it out as I either missed it or someone has a different definition of battling. The question I ask myself during and after the race is “will what I’m seeing/saw be enough to entice new fans to give the series a look see? I don’t think yesterday’s race could be answered in the affirmative.
 
Maybe the racing is not better, maybe it is, but for the first time in years I have watched practically every lap of every race including the Xfinity and truck series. What is even more incredible is I am even watching during the side by side commercials.
 
DIDIT said:
Maybe the racing is not better, maybe it is, but for the first time in years I have watched practically every lap of every race including the Xfinity and truck series. What is even more incredible is I am even watching during the side by side commercials.
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I think you hit on the key thing. It doesn’t matter if the racing is good or bad. What matters is that people watch and are entertained. If the 2019 rules can cause viewership to bounce back from moribund levels and cause more people to show up at the track it is a winner period!

I think a lot of us have complained about the rules change but I don’t think it has caused many of us to stop watching or watch a lot less.
 
Trying to figure out what thread this fits into, so I will try here. There was outrage when Kyle Busch criticized the package after the offseason Vegas test. John Probst had some big words for Kyle. Having said that, two very important figures in NASCAR have been very critical of the changes. Jeff Curtis (Jazzy) (Former Engineer for Furniture Row and current engineer on the 1) and Cole Pearn have gone to social media, and really ripped into the sanctioning body. Jazzy criticized the data analysis capabilities of the sanctioning body, and Pearn commented that higher corner speeds have never produced better racing. So nobody here feels trolled, I will say that part of this post is Kyle biased......Where the hell is Probst with the big words for these two guys who arguably know more about vehicle dynamics than a driver, thus making there comments 10x more potent? Haven't seen a thing from him, and while I may have missed it, I didn't see any outrage here over these comments. This is the kind of crap that defines Hater Nation. Really stupid....and given the silence from the sanctioning body regarding these comments, I am left wondering if they are part of the problem when it comes to driver perception....at least in this case.
 
Flyer22 said:
I thought Vegas was a ton better...I thought Martinsville was atrocious. Usually those have been reversed so I guess its a wash.
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It's a race. It's not scripted. **** happens.
 
Revman said:
Trying to figure out what thread this fits into, so I will try here. There was outrage when Kyle Busch criticized the package after the offseason Vegas test. John Probst had some big words for Kyle. Having said that, two very important figures in NASCAR have been very critical of the changes. Jeff Curtis (Jazzy) (Former Engineer for Furniture Row and current engineer on the 1) and Cole Pearn have gone to social media, and really ripped into the sanctioning body. Jazzy criticized the data analysis capabilities of the sanctioning body, and Pearn commented that higher corner speeds have never produced better racing. So nobody here feels trolled, I will say that part of this post is Kyle biased......Where the hell is Probst with the big words for these two guys who arguably know more about vehicle dynamics than a driver, thus making there comments 10x more potent? Haven't seen a thing from him, and while I may have missed it, I didn't see any outrage here over these comments. This is the kind of crap that defines Hater Nation. Really stupid....and given the silence from the sanctioning body regarding these comments, I am left wondering if they are part of the problem when it comes to driver perception....at least in this case.
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You bring up some good points and I do think the Kyle factor was in play when he made his initial comments. I also think part of it was the timing of the comments.

Regarding the comments from Jazzy and Cole I think there are a couple of things in play. I think Probst’s superiors told him to keep his mouth shut unless he was invited to open it. He came off as a complete jackass with his comments toward Kyle.

The other thing is what those 2 have said is not up for debate but how it is. The last thing Nascar needs to do is stir up a hornets nest by commenting publicly. If a back and forth started regarding the 2019 rules Nascar would look foolish again, IMO.
 
After the first few races I thought the changes weren't too bad, now I am not so sure. I agree with TRL that I will wait until half the season is run. I should have an idea how the package performs over a wider range of tracks.
 
Revman said:
Trying to figure out what thread this fits into, so I will try here. There was outrage when Kyle Busch criticized the package after the offseason Vegas test. John Probst had some big words for Kyle. Having said that, two very important figures in NASCAR have been very critical of the changes. Jeff Curtis (Jazzy) (Former Engineer for Furniture Row and current engineer on the 1) and Cole Pearn have gone to social media, and really ripped into the sanctioning body. Jazzy criticized the data analysis capabilities of the sanctioning body, and Pearn commented that higher corner speeds have never produced better racing. So nobody here feels trolled, I will say that part of this post is Kyle biased......Where the hell is Probst with the big words for these two guys who arguably know more about vehicle dynamics than a driver, thus making there comments 10x more potent? Haven't seen a thing from him, and while I may have missed it, I didn't see any outrage here over these comments. This is the kind of crap that defines Hater Nation. Really stupid....and given the silence from the sanctioning body regarding these comments, I am left wondering if they are part of the problem when it comes to driver perception....at least in this case.
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Kyle has been correct on this issue since day one. Pearn is right. Others that aren't in the Toyota fold and are speaking out are as well. This has nothing to do with hater-ism, they are just as invested in the sport as the cheerleaders and go-alongers. I'm surprised this is the one issue you're not really backing your boy on.
 
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Revman said:
Trying to figure out what thread this fits into, so I will try here. There was outrage when Kyle Busch criticized the package after the offseason Vegas test. John Probst had some big words for Kyle. Having said that, two very important figures in NASCAR have been very critical of the changes. Jeff Curtis (Jazzy) (Former Engineer for Furniture Row and current engineer on the 1) and Cole Pearn have gone to social media, and really ripped into the sanctioning body. Jazzy criticized the data analysis capabilities of the sanctioning body, and Pearn commented that higher corner speeds have never produced better racing. So nobody here feels trolled, I will say that part of this post is Kyle biased......Where the hell is Probst with the big words for these two guys who arguably know more about vehicle dynamics than a driver, thus making there comments 10x more potent? Haven't seen a thing from him, and while I may have missed it, I didn't see any outrage here over these comments. This is the kind of crap that defines Hater Nation. Really stupid....and given the silence from the sanctioning body regarding these comments, I am left wondering if they are part of the problem when it comes to driver perception....at least in this case.
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It has nothing to do with aero or hp or "data analysis" or whatever else a CC/engineer/driver/etc can identify and articulate --

it is about the pursuit of "entertainment" and "show business" with a race car theme -- for the purpose of making money for NASCAR (a business).

Scott Miller has been open and honest about THAT:)
 
kinda o/t but it is about the new rules package for qualifying. Kez has an idea, I kinda like it

NASCAR qualifying debate rages on ahead of Texas
Brad Keselowski: “I would just pull off the restrictor plates and let them go run for it, and then we wouldn’t have any of this. I’d empty out the grandstands and make everybody go on the infield at all the tracks, and we’d put on a hell of a show. That’s what I would do. Then you wouldn’t see any of this drafting nonsense and you’d see cars going 215, 220 miles an hour — just for one lap but I think it’d be awesome. That’d get rid of all the shenanigans and we’d go back to setting track records and doing all kinds of crazy awesome stuff. At least for one lap.”
https://racer.com/2019/03/25/nascar-qualifying-debate-rages-on-ahead-of-texas/
 
StandOnIt said:
kinda o/t but it is about the new rules package for qualifying. Kez has an idea, I kinda like it

NASCAR qualifying debate rages on ahead of Texas
Brad Keselowski: “I would just pull off the restrictor plates and let them go run for it, and then we wouldn’t have any of this. I’d empty out the grandstands and make everybody go on the infield at all the tracks, and we’d put on a hell of a show. That’s what I would do. Then you wouldn’t see any of this drafting nonsense and you’d see cars going 215, 220 miles an hour — just for one lap but I think it’d be awesome. That’d get rid of all the shenanigans and we’d go back to setting track records and doing all kinds of crazy awesome stuff. At least for one lap.”
https://racer.com/2019/03/25/nascar-qualifying-debate-rages-on-ahead-of-texas/
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Sure we all like it but the reason it got tamed a bit is because people were getting killed. So sure go ahead and run 220, just don’t be upset when someone goes home in a body bag
 
Mispeedway15 said:
Sure we all like it but the reason it got tamed a bit is because people were getting killed. So sure go ahead and run 220, just don’t be upset when someone goes home in a body bag
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he said to pull everybody into the infield. He's thinking of everything. :D I don't know where the hell he came up with that one, but it is a good one

make everybody go on the infield at all the tracks
 
Not a big Parity fan, I recall the Ford's when they were getting waxed with 352's, but then they got 390's and then 406's, 427's and then Cammers, which NASCAR banned. Ever increasing Cubic inches and horsepower. Mopar and GM did the same. Ram-air and Crossfire. Tons of automobile innovation. the Current Infinity series were regulated primarily by wheelbase to 116" while Cup cars were 123" and that inched down to 121". They had to have 500 cars sold to the public for that model to run in a race. Same with engines. After Ford came out with that Cammer engine (Had Overhead cams) why new rule it had to be a Piston, Push rod, V-8 with at least 500 sold to the Public. Then they limited the cubic inches to 358, Then they dropped all the 500 sold to public rules so they could get Toyota into the fold, as Toyota never sold a push rod V-8 engine to the public.

Then the "Lumina" a Front wheel drive stock car was allowed. Then they all were front wheel drive cars, using non-stock rear wheel drive. Smooth move ExLax!

Now the "Stock" is gone from our 'Stock Car Racing"
 
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yeah and that is only part of all the changes and tricks pulled over the years. But what are they to do, change the name of the whole series's. Street stock in drag racing..don't get me started.:D There was a short time in the glory years late 70's where things were pretty wide open, they were acid dipping body panels in SCCA and Trans Am, they had 1500 HP+ Porsche's still the fastest Trans Am race car on the planet and it got out of hand real fast. No telling what today's peanut gallery would be coming up with. It's nothing today what they were doing to cars back then.
 
I think as the season progress, we'll start to see the flaws of this package as teams start to figure out how to exploit it and gain an edge over their competitors. But, it had a good few races at Atlanta, Vegas, and Phoenix. So....that's something.
 
SpeedPagan said:
I think as the season progress, we'll start to see the flaws of this package as teams start to figure out how to exploit it and gain an edge over their competitors. But, it had a good few races at Atlanta, Vegas, and Phoenix. So....that's something.
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flaws is one word for it. Teams will perfect it as well as they can is another
 
I saw a lot of side by side racing at Martinsville. The announcers were saying it was the track that had grip there, but I am not convinced it was all the track. I think the higher downforce had something to do with it also. Bristol might be a bit different, less single lane racing.
 
StandOnIt said:
I saw a lot of side by side racing at Martinsville. The announcers were saying it was the track that had grip there, but I am not convinced it was all the track. I think the higher downforce had something to do with it also. Bristol might be a bit different, less single lane racing.
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My main issue is that I don't see the need for all that downforce at short tracks. Short tracks should be focused more on mechanical grip than aero. You want some good short track racing, use the 2018 package.
 
StandOnIt said:
he said to pull everybody into the infield. He's thinking of everything. :D I don't know where the hell he came up with that one, but it is a good one

make everybody go on the infield at all the tracks
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For qualifying ...... the infield is a good place to be for qualifying anyway
 
Ventisca said:
It has nothing to do with aero or hp or "data analysis" or whatever else a CC/engineer/driver/etc can identify and articulate --

it is about the pursuit of "entertainment" and "show business" with a race car theme -- for the purpose of making money for NASCAR (a business).

Scott Miller has been open and honest about THAT

and THAT is your disconnect... :)
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My point was that it was a big deal when a driver speaks his mind, but when a couple of experts do, NASCAR turns a blind eye....and so does this board for the most part. Carry on.
 
StandOnIt said:
I saw a lot of side by side racing at Martinsville. The announcers were saying it was the track that had grip there, but I am not convinced it was all the track. I think the higher downforce had something to do with it also. Bristol might be a bit different, less single lane racing.
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I agree. The racing is fine. This might be the only thing we agree on.
 
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