Matt DiBenedetto appreciation thread

StandOnIt said:
you don't know what Toyota knows shill. ridiculous. Toyota paying ya or what. At least that would be credible if they were.
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Careful on the name calling. It is frowned upon here, and I don't deserve it. Thank you. Enjoying our discussion.....
 
Revman said:
Careful on the name calling. It is frowned upon here, and I don't deserve it. Thank you. Enjoying our discussion.....
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you've been shilling everything I have said for two days dude. The name fits. I make a comment, you shill it personally. You be careful yourself. one needs to be if commenting directly about others posts as long as you want to start modding
 
StandOnIt said:
you've been shilling everything I have said for two days dude. The name fits.
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Come on man. Not really. Just a difference of an opinion rooted in my extreme bias. Not coming after ya or anything.....
 
Revman said:
Come on man. Not really. Just a difference of an opinion rooted in my extreme bias. Not coming after ya or anything.....
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oh yeah I'm aware of that we all are. Lots of posters here think Matt is getting a raw deal and shilling for JGR/Leavine is a tough sell. I disagree that Matt is better off, right now he is out of a job and without prospects. Leavine on the other hand is seeing pie in the sky. I'm sure it will work out for Leavine at least in the short term, but I don't think the move is a popular one at this time. All of the shilling in the world isn't going to change popular opinion right now in my book. Popular opinion on the other hand doesn't pay the bills either
 
StandOnIt said:
oh yeah I'm aware of that we all are. Lots of posters here think Matt is getting a raw deal and shilling for JGR/Leavine is a tough sell. I disagree that Matt is better off, right now he is out of a job and without prospects. Leavine on the other hand is seeing pie in the sky. I'm sure it will work out for Leavine at least in the short term, but I don't think the move is a popular one at this time. All of the shilling in the world isn't going to change popular opinion right now in my book. Popular opinion on the other hand doesn't pay the bills either
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Like I said, it will be interesting to see how it plays out.
 
StandOnIt said:
All of the shilling in the world isn't going to change popular opinion right now in my book. Popular opinion on the other hand doesn't pay the bills either
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On the other hand, why be involved in NASCAR if you can't raise the popularity of your brand? Where is the value in constantly making decisions that the fans HATE, even if they can be justified, if it makes you unpopular?
 
StandOnIt said:
Judging from the loud volume of Boo's when they introduced Kyle Busch, I would say he wasn't high on the list with a lot of fans there.
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That dude got booed out of the track. I couldn’t believe it hearing it in actual person. Kyle didn’t have many fans Saturday Night.
 
Revman said:
This "large group of fans" will move on very soon. Matt D. is the narrative of the week. NASCAR fan's attention span is shorter than Allmendinger without Adderall.
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False. Ignorance here.

Matt has been a fan favorite for years on NASCAR’s subreddit which holds 300,000 members.

The attention Matt has now simply brought his attitude and talent to the lime light, all of which has been noticed by that reddit page for years.

The nascar media may have a short attention span and move on to the next bleeding lead, but the fans remember forever.
 
Revman said:
You have a courageous and unique take on this situation. One that I really do not disagree with. I love Matt (like everybody else today), but I don't necessarily agree with his narrative in light of the fact that he knew about this for a very long time. His emotion within the context of "yeah, I knew it was coming" would be more authentic IMO, but there is a desperate need in this forum for some to advance an anti-JGR/TRD theme.

Slightly off topic.....Hamlin's apology for winning concerns me as a Toyota fan. I have never ever heard an athlete gunning for a championship apologizing for winning--ever. In sport (which this is--not real life....even though we have heard that Matt is driving for his life), you step on the throat of your competitor when you have him down. You do not apologize for success. Do you see the greatest champions in the history of our sport doing that? Hamlin has never been better than he is right now. He has never had a better chance to win this, but his Matt love shows a fragility that suggests he is vulnerable. I hope he doesn't overthink this.
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You would think there could be a medium. At the end of the day, he still won the race. I would hope a competitor could prioritize while also having love for a fellow competitor.

Denny is on right now. And I think he has a much more genuine head on his shoulders. I wouldn't be too concerned just yet. Wait to see how focused he is in the playoffs. Every driver is vulnerable to a degree. If Denny is comfortable in that vulnerability (which he clearly wasn't before), then he's confident. I like his chances as much as anyone this year.

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For me, it's not just the Bristol run, but that DiBenedetto has been doing really good all around lately, and the knowledge that his success is probably going to earn him a demotion to the Truck Series.

There's a reason so many people see this sport as a huge joke.
 
I get why Leavine dropped MattyD and put Bell in the car.

Erik Jones is coming to his own now. He has more top-fives than Harvick, Blaney and Larson and as many as Chase and Brad. He has more top-10s than all those guys I mentioned except Harvick. He just hasn't won this season. Gibbs would be stupid to cut Jones, like the internet wants.

Hamlin, the other fan favorite for departure, has four wins, including Daytona, has won the 500 twice, and looks like he could be on his way to winning the championship. Not to mention, he's the only driver with secure, stable sponsorship. Hamlin's going to be in the #11 car until he's good and ready to retire.

So, where does Toyota put Christopher Bell?
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
I get why Leavine dropped MattyD and put Bell in the car.

Erik Jones is coming to his own now. He has more top-fives than Harvick, Blaney and Larson and as many as Chase and Brad. He has more top-10s than all those guys I mentioned except Harvick. He just hasn't won this season. Gibbs would be stupid to cut Jones, like the internet wants.

Hamlin, the other fan favorite for departure, has four wins, including Daytona, has won the 500 twice, and looks like he could be on his way to winning the championship. Not to mention, he's the only driver with secure, stable sponsorship. Hamlin's going to be in the #11 car until he's good and ready to retire.

So, where does Toyota put Christopher Bell?
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This is more than a reasonable way to look at things IMO. The Preacher,TRD and LFR all did the right deal in this instance.
 
Snappy D said:
This is more than a reasonable way to look at things IMO. The Preacher,TRD and LFR all did the right deal in this instance.
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I've honestly gotten sick of how everyone's trashing Erik Jones - solely because they wanted Bell to replace him so Matt DiBenedetto could stay in the #95. I want DiBenedetto to stay in Cup too, but the Erik Jones hate isn't grounded in reality. His stat line is pretty damn good. I'm going to catch some **** for this, but I think Kyle Larson should be the focus in terms of driver performance, not Erik Jones.

And anyone who's been paying attention the last 10-12 years knows that, in the COT and post-COT era, the days of rookies coming into Cup and winning 2-3 races and finishing top-10 in points are over. We've seen that it takes a good 2-3 years, minimum, to make the adjustment from XFINITY to Cup now. Jones has made the adjustment and is contending. Elliott's made the adjustment over the past year, and Elliott was pretty close to unfairly being labeled a bust before last year. William Byron is starting to make the adjustment (though I'm not quite sold on him yet). It took Larson a few years to win races.

I think a lot of people are still living in the days of Tony Stewart, Kevin Harvick, Jimmie Johnson, Kyle Busch and Denny Hamlin winning multiple races in their rookie seasons. Those days are behind us.

I get it. I hate that the entire set of circumstances possibly means DiBenedetto may have to spend out his days in the Truck Series (man, it's sad how far this series has fallen, but that's another topic) or in some backmarker ride where his best chance of success is a restrictor plate race or rain.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
I've honestly gotten sick of how everyone's trashing Erik Jones - solely because they wanted Bell to replace him so Matt DiBenedetto could stay in the #95. I want DiBenedetto to stay in Cup too, but the Erik Jones hate isn't grounded in reality. His stat line is pretty damn good. I'm going to catch some sh!t for this, but I think Kyle Larson should be the focus in terms of driver performance, not Erik Jones.

And anyone who's been paying attention the last 10-12 years knows that, in the COT and post-COT era, the days of rookies coming into Cup and winning 2-3 races and finishing top-10 in points are over. We've seen that it takes a good 2-3 years, minimum, to make the adjustment from XFINITY to Cup now. Jones has made the adjustment and is contending. Elliott's made the adjustment over the past year, and Elliott was pretty close to unfairly being labeled a bust before last year. William Byron is starting to make the adjustment (though I'm not quite sold on him yet). It took Larson a few years to win races.

I think a lot of people are still living in the days of Tony Stewart, Kevin Harvick, Jimmie Johnson, Kyle Busch and Denny Hamlin winning multiple races in their rookie seasons. Those days are behind us.

I get it. I hate that the entire set of circumstances possibly means DiBenedetto may have to spend out his days in the Truck Series (man, it's sad how far this series has fallen, but that's another topic) or in some backmarker ride where his best chance of success is a restrictor plate race or rain.
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I am in 100% agreement with you. Erik Jones is being trashed and he might end up being the most accomplished out of this whole deal when its all said and done. I was pretty callous to Matty D when this whole deal happened but I honestly hate he's losing his ride over it. I hope he ends up in a good Cup ride, and you will catch flak over the Larson comments but you're right he hasnt produced at all in the last year and Kurt has outperformed him since Race 1 this year. Funny how most are quiet in here over that ( but ive read on here and reddit most still want to retire Kurt. What?) I still however think Larson is going to catch a hot streak here and be a tough out in the playoffs, the 42 has been running better the last 2 months or so. I fought the battle for Chase when he was being labled a bust and how he hadnt won yet... Cup Racing is hard. I think you are right that we were spoiled with those rookie years you mentioned.... this takes time to learn and how to close out these races. The adjustment is real.... Those rookie years are very rare. Erik Jones was driving for his job and it showed, I think this will take him to a whole different level and I expect him to win a race or two here as the year winds down here. But yeah, like I said before earlier in this thread.... Erik Jones is blossoming before our eyes and all some can do is be worry about TRD/LFR/Preacher Joe.
 
I guess some get sick easily, I haven't seen much trashing of Jones on here. I think Larson has been catching some heat, Blaney a bit, Hendrick's a lot.
 
Snappy D said:
This is more than a reasonable way to look at things IMO. The Preacher,TRD and LFR all did the right deal in this instance.
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I guess the question would be why hire Matt at all? If Bell is as great as everybody thinks he is, why not just put him in the 95 THIS year. Did it EVER occur to them that Matt might do well in the 95 and maybe, just maybe they should have some sort of fallback plan if he did? I will also reiterate that if Toyota would have found a way to keep Furniture Row alive, Visser or no Visser, they would have PLENTY of room for these drivers.
 
Formerjackman said:
I guess the question would be why hire Matt at all? If Bell is as great as everybody thinks he is, why not just put him in the 95 THIS year. Did it EVER occur to them that Matt might do well in the 95 and maybe, just maybe they should have some sort of fallback plan if he did? I will also reiterate that if Toyota would have found a way to keep Furniture Row alive, Visser or no Visser, they would have PLENTY of room for these drivers.
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Well...... Matt kept the seat warm until Preacher Joe and Toyota thought Bell would be ready for Cup. Thats all I can conclude, it might not be that complicated, no conspiracy theories needed .
 
Revman said:
Slightly off topic.....Hamlin's apology for winning concerns me as a Toyota fan. I have never ever heard an athlete gunning for a championship apologizing for winning--ever. In sport (which this is--not real life....even though we have heard that Matt is driving for his life), you step on the throat of your competitor when you have him down. You do not apologize for success. Do you see the greatest champions in the history of our sport doing that? Hamlin has never been better than he is right now. He has never had a better chance to win this, but his Matt love shows a fragility that suggests he is vulnerable. I hope he doesn't overthink this.
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I think you're overthinking this. I didn't watch the race because I was at Bowman Gray, but I have read the quotes.

Hamlin's a Late Model Stock guy, so he respects DiBenedetto. Plus, Hamlin is one of very few drivers who earned his ride the hard way and fought to get where he is. I think he resonates with DiBenedetto because of their very similar career paths. So, in a way, he might see himself in DiBenedetto.

He might think a win may have been the difference for DiBenedetto's career and that, by winning the race himself, DiBenedetto's Cup career is over. DiBenedetto is racing for his career every single week, whereas Hamlin is set and looks destined to win the championship. I'd feel pretty bad myself in that situation. But Hamlin still making the pass and taking the win shows he's going to go for it, and I don't think that instinct has changed.


I hope DiBenedetto gets picked up. I just don't see who is going to do it.

It'd be hard to drop Alex Bowman because he's young and he's consistent - but personally, I think DiBenedetto is someone who could win several races take that car deep in the playoffs whereas Bowman looks like someone who wins from time to time and gets you in the playoffs, but he's only 26, so it's way too early to write him off and say he won't become a top-five driver.

Same thing for William Byron, too hard to write him off. Maybe Jimmie Johnson will run just one more year and DiBenedetto gets that car in 2021.

Aric Almirola is another driver who's going to win you some races here and there and get you in the playoffs. At the age of 35, it's probably safer to come to that conclusion about Almirola than it is about Bowman. But, at the same time, at 35, Truex also looked like he was never actually going to win championships and win a ton of races. And now look. :idunno: I think SHR is DiBenedetto's best option, since Harvick's probably not too far away from retirement, Bowyer is not too far away from retirement, and Daniel Suarez just isn't getting it done (but isn't running any worse than Bowyer and Almirola) but we'll see.




IMO, Kyle Larson is the driver who should be on the hot seat more than anyone. But, for whatever reason, he's not.

Furthermore, when you think of all these scenarios, you also have to think, Ross Chastain is out there as well with a huge fanbase and he's pretty deserving of a Cup ride. And then you've got Cole Custer and Austin Cindric who are virtually guaranteed Cup rides within the next couple of years, and some other drivers moving up such as Tyler Reddick, Noah Gragson, Justin Haley (who now has a Cup win to his credit after that fiasco in Daytona), John Hunter Nemechek (another driver who's probably guaranteed a Cup ride in the not too distant future), Chandler Smith, Austin Hill, Hailie Deegan. In the Cup Series, you still have Chris Buescher, Bubba Wallace, and Corey Lajoie sitting there in backmarker rides.
 
Snappy D said:
I still however think Larson is going to catch a hot streak here and be a tough out in the playoffs, the 42 has been running better the last 2 months or so.
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My frustration when it comes to Larson is that he has been in this series since 2014 and still hasn't learned patience. It's legitimately frustrating, because I like Larson and really wanted him to win championships when he entered this deal. But he'd rather put the car in the wall and be relegated to a 15th place finish than settle for fourth when that's all his car's got. And then his ability to find ways to lose races he should win because he just tries too hard.

How many times is this guy going to take the wall down running in second, running down the leader, because he tried too hard to gain an extra hundredth of a second when he still has time?

I agree that he'll get red hot once he finally does put it all together a couple times, but I've felt that way about Larson for years and it just has not materialized.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
For me, it's not just the Bristol run, but that DiBenedetto has been doing really good all around lately, and the knowledge that his success is probably going to earn him a demotion to the Truck Series.

There's a reason so many people see this sport as a huge joke.
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If these fans you are talking about think this sport is a joke over the business decisions of a team owner, what do they think about NFL,NBA and MLB trades?
 
Spotter22 said:
If these fans you are talking about think this sport is a joke over the business decisions of a team owner, what do they think about NFL,NBA and MLB trades?
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Really, the only comparison I could think of with the NFL is Nick Foles. Guys wins a Super Bowl for the Eagles after Carson Wentz is injured, still sits on the sidelines the next year until Carson Wentz is injured and again leads the Eagles to the playoffs.

But even then, Nick Foles ended up with a starting quarterback job and an $88 million contract with Jacksonville before it was said and done. Although, the argument could be made that the Jaguars are the NFL equivalent of DGR-Crosley's Truck Series team. :(
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
My frustration when it comes to Larson is that he has been in this series since 2014 and still hasn't learned patience. It's legitimately frustrating, because I like Larson and really wanted him to win championships when he entered this deal. But he'd rather put the car in the wall and be relegated to a 15th place finish than settle for fourth when that's all his car's got. And then his ability to find ways to lose races he should win because he just tries too hard.

How many times is this guy going to take the wall down running in second, running down the leader, because he tried too hard to gain an extra hundredth of a second when he still has time?

I agree that he'll get red hot once he finally does put it all together a couple times, but I've felt that way about Larson for years and it just has not materialized.
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Preach.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
I'm going to catch some sh!t for this, but I think Kyle Larson should be the focus in terms of driver performance, not Erik Jones.
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Not from me you won't. This is the absolute truth, but few want to admit it.
I will say that it's not really Larson's fault, there is no way that ANYONE could live up to ridiculous amount of hype thrown upon him.
 
I don't wish anything bad on anybody but I think that it would be funny as hell if Bell turned into another Casey Atwood. All of this backstabbing for nothing would be justified karma. All of these yoder phenoms can't be the second coming of Jeff Gordon or Jimmie Johnson etc. Some have got to be a bust and they know it.
 
dirtfan said:
Not from me you won't. This is the absolute truth, but few want to admit it.
I will say that it's not really Larson's fault, there is no way that ANYONE could live up to ridiculous amount of hype thrown upon him.
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There was a ridiculous amount of hype thrown around Elliott and he was being written off as a bust.

The notion that someone's going to come into Cup in their rookie year and win 10 races and the championship, then go on to win 10 straight championships unchallenged is ridiculous.

I know I made a hyperbolic statement about Chandler Smith the other night being the next Jimmie Johnson. What I had actually meant by that is that I've watched that kid race for years and he's legitimately one of the best drivers I've ever seen and I think he has the potential to be the next Jimmie Johnson in terms of talent, skill, and maturity.

Regardless, back to Larson, I don't think anyone legitimately believed he was going to go out there and win 100 races and 10 championships. People really need to tune out the media chatter. A lot of those guys don't have a clue to start with.

But Larson looks exactly like Kasey Kahne right now. Comes into the sport with a dirt background, is built up as the next Jeff Gordon, gets a full-time Cup ride with a solid team before winning in XFINITY, showed flashes of greatness his rookie season, has one really great season but doesn't make it deep in the Chase/playoffs in spite of it, but otherwise becomes a guy who wins from time to time and contends for wins from time to time.

I think Larson's going to win more races and hopefully win a championship, and I think he's just in a slump right now. But I also thought Kasey Kahne was going to win championships when he signed with Hendrick. :idunno:
 
Johali said:
I don't wish anything bad on anybody but I think that it would be funny as hell if Bell turned into another Casey Atwood. All of this backstabbing for nothing would be justified karma. All of these yoder phenoms can't be the second coming of Jeff Gordon or Jimmie Johnson etc. Some have got to be a bust and they know it.
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Backstabbing? Which part of this is Christopher Bell's fault? Where in any of this is he a bad actor?

He's proven himself on the road to the Cup Series in spectacular fashion. Toyota wants him in Cup. If a seat didn't open for Bell, he'd end up with Stewart-Haas, and believe me, Toyota does not want to lose Christopher Bell.

I was covering Christopher Bell's career before almost everybody, if not everybody, on this forum even knew who he was. In fact, if memory serves me correctly, I was the first person to write a feature about Christopher Bell when he made the transition to asphalt. I knew back then that this guy was a once-in-a-generation talent.

He might end up being a bust in Cup, stranger things have happened. Kasey Kahne never lived up to his real potential and Kyle Larson's career has certainly been subpar to date.

But, right now, I would say the chances of Bell failing in Cup are about equal to my chances of getting married to Taylor Swift.
 
Johali said:
I don't wish anything bad on anybody but I think that it would be funny as hell if Bell turned into another Casey Atwood. All of this backstabbing for nothing would be justified karma. All of these yoder phenoms can't be the second coming of Jeff Gordon or Jimmie Johnson etc. Some have got to be a bust and they know it.
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:XXROFL:good one. If they support him like they supported Matt, it's more possible than many think. Personally I think if the 4 Gibbers are getting it done, they could give a **** about Bell and Leavine. They had a good driver already they could of developed and given a decent shot running the good stuff, but why do that when they sniped Truex. Now Hamlin has awakened after a long sleep, and the shrub is leading the points, Truex is doing well and they all are in the playoffs so lets give Leavine our seconds. Never wanted to see the Okie boy get shuffled off into a closet.
 
StandOnIt said:
:XXROFL:good one. If they support him like they supported Matt, it's more possible than many think. Personally I think if the 4 Gibbers are getting it done, they could give a sh!t about Bell and Leavine. They had a good driver already they could of developed and given a decent shot running the good stuff, but why do that when they sniped Truex. Now Hamlin has awakened after a long sleep, and the shrub is leading the points, Truex is doing well and they all are in the playoffs so lets give Leavine our seconds. Never wanted to see the Okie boy get shuffled off into a closet.
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This isn't Toyota "giving Leavine our seconds." This is completely a business decision to get Bell into Cup and get him seat time. Maybe a seat opens up at Gibbs next year. Maybe Hamlin wins the championship and decides to "go out on top" and announces 2020 will be his final season. Or maybe Christopher Bell ends up staying at Leavine Family Racing and enjoys a healthy career, which consists of wins and championships, sort of like Truex at Furniture Row before the Five Hour/Spire fiasco.
 
DIDIT said:
Good grief, I thought this was the Matt Dibenedetto appreciation thread. 6 pages in, Shirley I am wrong. :)
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You're not wrong, and don't call me Shirley. :D It has a large element of 'Toyota team management' and an unhealthy amount of 'Newman bashing'.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
This isn't Toyota "giving Leavine our seconds." This is completely a business decision to get Bell into Cup and get him seat time. Maybe a seat opens up at Gibbs next year. Maybe Hamlin wins the championship and decides to "go out on top" and announces 2020 will be his final season. Or maybe Christopher Bell ends up staying at Leavine Family Racing and enjoys a healthy career, which consists of wins and championships, sort of like Truex at Furniture Row before the Five Hour/Spire fiasco.
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we'll see. Unless Leavine orToyota ponies up the cash to run the good stuff, Bell better get familiar with top 20's.
 
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