Silly Season 2023

StandOnIt said:
I've been saying that forever. Who wants a truck team with almost nothing, no finantial support, but we have a building. I will be really surprised if that truck team continues.
Click to expand...
A building is easy to get, but filling it with fifty talented individuals and creating a winning team chemistry is not. He has a turn-key championship level truck/late model/super lates program that's ripe for the picking.
 
jaqua19 said:
Facebook is a cesspool of racist southern NASCAR fans who know nothing about the sport or culture.

It's pathetic.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Pretty much, yeah. Lots of hate for Danica, Bubba, Toyota. I rarely bother to read anything on facebook/twitter/etc but when I do, it really makes me appreciate an old school message board like R-F.
 
cheesepuffs said:
A building is easy to get, but filling it with fifty talented individuals and creating a winning team chemistry is not. He has a turn-key championship level truck/late model/super lates program that's ripe for the picking.
Click to expand...
Yeah the team has value unfortunately its biggest asset is its people and the problem is taking over that operation doesn't mean you now own those people. Taking over a company and retaining employees is often a lot harder than it sounds.


Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
 
The negativity expressed ^ here is a daily occurrence.

Tiresome, IMO.
 
wi_racefan said:
Yeah the team has value unfortunately its biggest asset is its people and the problem is taking over that operation doesn't mean you now own those people. Taking over a company and retaining employees is often a lot harder than it sounds.


Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Who's talking about a company takeover?? They just need sponsors to fill the Toyota B2B voids, they aren't going to be  sold to Ford or Chevy. Then they would have  access to the team as it is.
 
cheesepuffs said:
Who's talking about a company takeover?? They just need sponsors to fill the Toyota B2B voids, they aren't going to be  sold to Ford or Chevy. Then they would have  access to the team as it is.
Click to expand...
Ok not a takeover but with how deep Toyota is entrenched in KBM you would have to imagine the new manufacturer is going to bring about a lot more changes than just different bodies on the trucks.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
 
wi_racefan said:
Ok not a takeover but with how deep Toyota is entrenched in KBM you would have to imagine the new manufacturer is going to bring about a lot more changes than just different bodies on the trucks.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Because  Toyota did things one way, we're now going to completely assume the future relationship of other completely different manufacturers and the team?

Kyle Busch runs that team. Kyle Busch and his staff choose the talent. Kyle's employees build the cars. Toyota has supplied a lot of sponsors/B2B deals, but Toyota/David Wilson is not running the day to day operations of KBM.
 
wi_racefan said:
Yeah the team has value unfortunately its biggest asset is its people and the problem is taking over that operation doesn't mean you now own those people. Taking over a company and retaining employees is often a lot harder than it sounds.


Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I would imagine those employees aren't feeling very secure about now. Hopefully they come out ok.
 
StandOnIt said:
I would imagine those employees aren't feeling very secure about now. Hopefully they come out ok.
Click to expand...
Another reason why Kyle needs to get this wrapped up. Uncertainty scares people and its a great opportunity for you competition to steal employees

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
 
StandOnIt said:
For the hair people, here is a different angle for ya

Click to expand...

Regardless of hair color…that clip of KDB confirming his arrogance and antics cost him his major sponsor are WOW…surprising. His candor, his confirmation that he will have to dial it back some for new sponsors, etc. He also deflected some of this blame to NASCAR, saying they’ve told him for 15 years to keep being an #@$&#@# (essentially be yourself behind the wheel). No doubt he embraced the “bad boy” approach with gusto, knowing it‘s part of the show.

I think @Allenbaba said it best in a previous post; how you engage and treat the team, your sponsors and others within the organization matters a lot. If your not winning, they stop looking past poor treatment.

I hope KDB uses some introspection, and brings us Kyle Busch…good man, father and husband that I’m sure he is…as his racing persona. Not because the sponsors say he has to, but because he finds it a better way to work his racing career. His brother Kurt had to transform and did it successfully.
 
Conover said:
Regardless of hair color…that clip of KDB confirming his arrogance and antics cost him his major sponsor are WOW…surprising. His candor, his confirmation that he will have to dial it back some for new sponsors, etc. He also deflected some of this blame to NASCAR, saying they’ve told him for 15 years to keep being an #@$&#@# (essentially be yourself behind the wheel). No doubt he embraced the “bad boy” approach with gusto, knowing it‘s part of the show.

Personally, I've never had that much trouble with Kyle behind the wheel (sure there have been incidents but,) It's always been Kyle outside of the car that I can't stand. There is a way to be a badass and wear the black hat without coming off as a spoiled child who didn't get his way. Maybe he is finally figuring that out.
Click to expand...
 
Charlie Spencer said:
And yet those same people would be dancing in the streets if Dodge announced they were coming back. Economically ignorant.
Click to expand...
I'm an equal opportunity hater. I don't hate Toyota any more than I hate Ford or have hated Dodge. They are just another enemy to me. Does it make any sense? No, but tell that to a Yankee fan who hates the Red Sox or a Packers fan who hates the Bears.
 
MRM said:
It used to be a big deal for most fans until the mid 2000's until the bland COT came in. Chevy vs. Ford was a big deal and etc. Toyota gets so much hate from fans because they're "not an American company." That's still big with a lot of NASCAR fans, especially the older ones.
Click to expand...
You nailed it!
I was always a Chevy/GM fan first. When my driver (Petty, Gant, Waltrip, Earnhardt etc.) was taken out of a race, I rooted for the next Chevy then the next GM. Anything but a Ford!!!
The COT took away brand identity and eventually brand loyalty.
My current fandom for Ryan Blaney says a lot about that.
My F350 sitting in the driveway says more.
 
Conover said:
I hope KDB uses some introspection, and brings us Kyle Busch…good man, father and husband that I’m sure he is…as his racing persona. Not because the sponsors say he has to, but because he finds it a better way to work his racing career. His brother Kurt had to transform and did it successfully.
Click to expand...
I hope he doesn't change at all, or even ramps it up once he signs somewhere. Why? Because he's almost 40, he's won basically everything there is to win, and why should he turn it down now?

We don't need more blunted personalities in the sport, we have plenty of those. We need genuine personalities to shine and he's one of the few that's brave enough to give us that, and I for one really appreciate it even if I don't always agree with him.
 
cheesepuffs said:
I hope he doesn't change at all, or even ramps it up once he signs somewhere. Why? Because he's almost 40, he's won basically everything there is to win, and why should he turn it down now?

We don't need more blunted personalities in the sport, we have plenty of those. We need genuine personalities to shine and he's one of the few that's brave enough to give us that, and I for one really appreciate it even if I don't always agree with him.
Click to expand...
Arrogant, Pissy, Combative, Tantrum throwing Kyle Busch is my favorite. His display of emotion is refreshing to see, its part of what made me a fan. I like how losing upsets him, you dont see that much.
 
My problem with Kyle is how he can be 100% at fault for something, and then goes and wrecks the person for revenge, yet it was Kyle’s fault in the first place. Like to me that’s very stupid. Wreck yourself or make some dumbass move, but got to blame the guy who wouldn’t move over and get out of your way lol.
 
Formerjackman said:
Some people are negative about NASCAR or the people or things in the sport. You are negative to people that post things you don't agree with. What's the difference?
Click to expand...
I’ll remind you that we respond to what people post here, not to the people themselves.

You do a pretty good job of that.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
Arrogant, Pissy, Combative, Tantrum throwing Kyle Busch is my favorite. His display of emotion is refreshing to see, its part of what made me a fan. I like how losing upsets him, you dont see that much.
Click to expand...
I can understand not being happy being second. I can't get along with his constant complaining about the quality of the cars JGR puts under him. He's been in top-tier equipment in every national series he's competed in, but he talks like he's driving BJ McLeod's rejects. He wouldn't know junk if RWR parked it on his foot.
 
Allenbaba said:
The only place? You can ask around the garage one day. Drop Barney Visser a note, see how he feels as well. Coach is a cutthroat business man who has cut a lot of throats to get to where he is in the sport, both friendly throats and otherwise. Does that make him different than most other owners or big time successful business leaders? Not really. But it is what it is.
Click to expand...
Do you define the character of a person by how he runs a business? I don't. Businessmen fire people, outbid people, and strategize to beat people. That's what they do. People get twisted up about Coach because they view his business acumen against the backdrop of his Christian narrative. In fact, I might argue that they get even more twisted up as they see this as hypocritical. I would like to think that Mr. Visser might be a bit appreciative of Coach for that Cup championship he won. That trophy wouldn't be there without him, and I think we both understand that.
 
Revman said:
Do you define the character of a person by how he runs a business? I don't. Businessmen fire people, outbid people, and strategize to beat people. That's what they do.
Click to expand...
That's correct, that's what they do. No one is debating what they do, it's how each of them individually does those things that under discussion.

Revman said:
I would like to think that Mr. Visser might be a bit appreciative of Coach for that Cup championship he won. That trophy wouldn't be there without him, and I think we both understand that.
Click to expand...
And then told that trying for another trophy would come at a greatly increased price. Nothing to be grateful for about that. That's the kind of 'How one runs a business' that's being criticized: pricing your competitive customer out of the market.
 
Allenbaba said:
It's honestly not even a knock on coach. He's just like all the rest of them, tbh.
Click to expand...
Don't burst @StandOnIt bubble. Most important rule here...Don't resist the narrative. Feed it, and get likes.
Charlie Spencer said:
That's correct, that's what they do. No one is debating what they do, it's how each of them individually does those things that under discussion.


And then told that trying for another trophy would come at a greatly increased price. Nothing to be grateful for about that.
Click to expand...
It's money. Who the hell cares how it's done? I don't. IMO it's all ugly. Big deal. Big business...and money I will never see or care about. They all play in the same club....but that doesn't define who they are. That defines their business ethics to be judged in the business world. Period. I am sick of Coach being portrayed as an a**hole. He is not....but you know, the narrative.

He got one more than he would have otherwise had. Don't forget....Barney said the price was fair. That is always forgotten around here....because, you know, the narrative. Exhausting.
Conover said:
Regardless of hair color…that clip of KDB confirming his arrogance and antics cost him his major sponsor are WOW…surprising. His candor, his confirmation that he will have to dial it back some for new sponsors, etc. He also deflected some of this blame to NASCAR, saying they’ve told him for 15 years to keep being an #@$&#@# (essentially be yourself behind the wheel). No doubt he embraced the “bad boy” approach with gusto, knowing it‘s part of the show.

I think @Allenbaba said it best in a previous post; how you engage and treat the team, your sponsors and others within the organization matters a lot. If your not winning, they stop looking past poor treatment.

I hope KDB uses some introspection, and brings us Kyle Busch…good man, father and husband that I’m sure he is…as his racing persona. Not because the sponsors say he has to, but because he finds it a better way to work his racing career. His brother Kurt had to transform and did it successfully.
Click to expand...
I don't know about all of that personality change stuff. So, the big money people enjoy the Kyle being an ass in public, and then glad handing them in private. Makes them feel special. He may be pitching that line to set the hook, but once the fish is on....we (lower case intended) will get the KFB we have always had.
StandOnIt said:
for one year the Camaro's after two years of sucking had an advantage for one year.
Click to expand...
Wait, what?!
StandOnIt said:
if they had an advantage? The yotas had 3 new front ends in 4 years, numerous changes to their Xfinity car, and for one year the Camaro's after two years of sucking had an advantage for one year. It was pretty lopsided for quite a while. This year it isn't and besides Elliott with a decent win average, nobody is winning 12, 13 races and the rest are sucking eggs and so far teams trying to get an advantage are getting caught doing so which is different than years past. Engine restrictions are also being used. I'm too lazy to look it up but they have to re use their engines and can only do so much to get them ready to race again.
Click to expand...
This is all bull****....search posts over the last 3 years for the reasons why. You are a freaking broken record.
wi_racefan said:
It doesn't happen because no one is paying more and money talks
Click to expand...
Cite your source as they say....You can't so leave Google alone.
Formerjackman said:
I'm an equal opportunity hater. I don't hate Toyota any more than I hate Ford or have hated Dodge. They are just another enemy to me. Does it make any sense? No, but tell that to a Yankee fan who hates the Red Sox or a Packers fan who hates the Bears.
Click to expand...
I honestly think that Toyota would see this as a badge of honor. To be hated on equal terms with established NASCAR OEM's is as good as loyal Toyota fans. Irrelevance is the enemy.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Revman said:
Cite your source as they say....You can't so leave Google alone.
Click to expand...
You ever listen to DBC? It's been discussed on there several times. Those are people inside the industry if they don't have knowledge of it I don't know who would?
 
Formerjackman said:
I'm an equal opportunity hater. I don't hate Toyota any more than I hate Ford or have hated Dodge. They are just another enemy to me. Does it make any sense? No, but tell that to a Yankee fan who hates the Red Sox or a Packers fan who hates the Bears.
Click to expand...

Let's be honest Packer fans don't hate Bear fans, we hate all things IL...... Damn FIB's
 
Kiante said:
Toyota puts this type of effort in because NASCAR has legitimately helped them sales figures wise ever since they have stepped into the sport. TRD in most cases has the larger of exhibits out of Ford and Chevy. Ford and Chevy might be nestled over in a corner somewhere, but not Toyota. They are out there with racing sims, giveaways, etc. As you explained being the midway at most events.

Toyota puts a lot in and gets a lot back in return. They do a lot more with the fans than I have with at Ford or Chevy at NASCAR events I have gone to ever since they joined the sport. The reason I feel as if they have such a logjam is due to them taking on a LOT of drivers a sifting through them all to see who is worth the increased investment. The best of the best TRD drivers get those chances in Truck, Xfinity, and Cup. It kind of reminds me when Red Bull began taking on drivers, they get handfuls of Juniors. However, who will rise above these 15 to 18 individuals? Also, who would be worth keeping in terms of pressing forward with in development at different levels?

Toyota has so many of them that its almost head-scratching at times. Also, seeing those who may bow out of the TRD program could be a positive for the likes of Chevy and Ford because they may see potential to build off of where TRD may have began with.
Click to expand...
This is truth, and the reality of it is that before competition arrived in the activation and performance arena, Ford and Chevy enjoyed a comfy level of participation in the sport. Toyota had a new way of doing things, and this pissed off the establishment. Obviously, Chevy would like to go back to winning 13 Manufacturer Championships in a row. ****** 13 in a row.....Was it a surprise to anybody that Toyota's model received resistance? Was it a surprise to anybody that Chevy and Ford had to bet off of their asses and invest in the sport? It was a little tough for them in early days of Toyota because they had to spend time with government bail outs and preventing bankruptcy, so I'll give them a bit of a pass.
 
Revman said:
Do you define the character of a person by how he runs a business? I don't. Businessmen fire people, outbid people, and strategize to beat people. That's what they do. People get twisted up about Coach because they view his business acumen against the backdrop of his Christian narrative. In fact, I might argue that they get even more twisted up as they see this as hypocritical. I would like to think that Mr. Visser might be a bit appreciative of Coach for that Cup championship he won. That trophy wouldn't be there without him, and I think we both understand that.
Click to expand...
I'm not accusing Coach of ANYTHING here, but dirty dealing is dirty dealing, and God nor anybody else should give you a free pass because it was just business' or "just a sport". You are what you are in your entirety, you don't get to pick or choose where the rules don't apply. Business and sports IS tough, but that doesn't mean you have to be unethical. Maybe you won't be as successful as those that DO, but you don't HAVE to. If you choose to go the unethical route, that's your deal, but then you've earned whatever criticism comes your way.
 
Revman said:
I honestly think that Toyota would see this as a badge of honor. To be hated on equal terms with established NASCAR OEM's is as good as loyal Toyota fans. Irrelevance is the enemy.
Click to expand...
At what point does Toyota cross the bridge and become an "established NASCAR OEM"? It's been almost 20 years already. They are part of the establishment.
 
Revman said:
This is truth, and the reality of it is that before competition arrived in the activation and performance arena, Ford and Chevy enjoyed a comfy level of participation in the sport. Toyota had a new way of doing things, and this pissed off the establishment. Obviously, Chevy would like to go back to winning 13 Manufacturer Championships in a row. ****** 13 in a row.....Was it a surprise to anybody that Toyota's model received resistance? Was it a surprise to anybody that Chevy and Ford had to bet off of their asses and invest in the sport? It was a little tough for them in early days of Toyota because they had to spend time with government bail outs and preventing bankruptcy, so I'll give them a bit of a pass.
Click to expand...
In the early days of Toyota in Cup they weren't even making the show...

Ford and Chevy had to get off the asses and invest in the sport? The 90s between Ford and Chevy were nuts.
 
Formerjackman said:
I'm not accusing Coach of ANYTHING here, but dirty dealing is dirty dealing, and God nor anybody else should give you a free pass because it was just business' or "just a sport". You are what you are in your entirety, you don't get to pick or choose where the rules don't apply. Business and sports IS tough, but that doesn't mean you have to be unethical. Maybe you won't be as successful as those that DO, but you don't HAVE to. If you choose to go the unethical route, that's your deal, but then you've earned whatever criticism comes your way.
Click to expand...
Wait a minute. Who said Coach was unethical? So interesting how the narrative ebbs and flows. Change a word here and change a word there...and then a whole new narrative evolves. You mentioned that you weren't accusing Coach of anything, and then elegantly accused Coach of everything. Oh that narrative.
 
cheesepuffs said:
At what point does Toyota cross the bridge and become an "established NASCAR OEM"? It's been almost 20 years already. They are part of the establishment.
Click to expand...
I would think so. Then, the narrative of Toyota outspending everybody and all of that other **** needs to stop. WE are going about OUR business OUR way, and WE can because WE are as much NASCAR as the other OEM's.
 
cheesepuffs said:
Is anybody questioning this? Why is there so much insecurity around this?
Click to expand...
Look at the posts regarding Toyota resentment. No insecurity. The Japanese manufacturer will always be seen in this sport. You know the reasons why, and so do I.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom