23XI statement on not signing Charter agreement

So what happens to the "dumb stupid fans thinking Denny is right and NASCAR is wrong" crowd if Kessler is able to prove NASCAR is in fact breaking anti-trust laws?

I'm not seeing anything refuting the idea of NASCAR breaking anti-trust laws, nor am I seeing a willingness to accept uncertaint...just a select group of of people choosing to **** on the idea that NASCAR *could* be breaking the law.
 
Dummies are overthinking this. It isn’t a, “who hates NASCAR, who hates Michael and Denny,” thing.
This lawsuit isn’t going to affect attendance or viewership. Sheep graze on bof sides of the fence.
The quality of “racing” is already marginal for some, epic for others.
This is about shutting down the nascar mafia.
I expect the mafia settles out of court, the teams make more money and the fans never know (admit) what happened. Bad day for the nascar-can-do-no-wrong crowd.
 
BobbyFord said:
Dummies are overthinking this. It isn’t a, “who hates NASCAR, who hates Michael and Denny,” thing.
This lawsuit isn’t going to affect attendance or viewership. Sheep graze on bof sides of the fence.
The quality of “racing” is already marginal for some, epic for others.
This is about shutting down the nascar mafia.
I expect the mafia settles out of court, the teams make more money and the fans never know (admit) what happened. Bad day for the nascar-can-do-no-wrong crowd.
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Yup. This is about legally addressing the possibility of a monopoly and using that to restructure revenue. It's just so straightforward
 
One of the first things I learned back in the early 1970's was that race fans love to blame and complain. It would be a Saturday night race at Greenville Pickens, Sunday on the MRN, then hearing the complaining the rest of the week about how they didn't do it right.
 
Eh, it's about 4 out of the 36 charters. Squeaky wheel trying to get the grease thing. Good luck. It might be different if all of the charter members were joined in the suit. But just two teams against a company doing business?
It doesn't look like they will get Justin Marks to go along with it.
 
StandOnIt said:
Eh, it's about 4 out of the 36 charters. Squeaky wheel trying to get the grease thing. Good luck. It might be different if all of the charter members were joined in the suit. But just two teams against a company doing business?
It doesn't look like they will get Justin Marks to go along with it.
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One plaintiff is sufficient.

The issue is quite simply whether or not NASCAR has violated and continues to violate antitrust law. I’m pretty sure Justin Marks and Pit Bull will quietly accept any positive benefits that might accrue to their business and to the rest of the chartered teams as a result of a court-ordered or prior settlement. Why wouldn’t they?
 
aunty dive said:
One plaintiff is sufficient.

The issue is quite simply whether or not NASCAR has violated and continues to violate antitrust law. I’m pretty sure Justin Marks and Pit Bull will quietly accept any positive benefits that might accrue to their business and to the rest of the chartered teams as a result of a court-ordered or prior settlement. Why wouldn’t they?
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Point being the suit wold be much stronger if all of the charter holders were in unison. They aren't
 
aunty dive said:
One plaintiff is sufficient.

The issue is quite simply whether or not NASCAR has violated and continues to violate antitrust law. I’m pretty sure Justin Marks and Pit Bull will quietly accept any positive benefits that might accrue to their business and to the rest of the chartered teams as a result of a court-ordered or prior settlement. Why wouldn’t they?
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Doesn't sound like it. Richard Childress doesn't think all the boats will rise with the tide. I think many think this is a stick and ball league. Nascar is a business.
 
jaqua19 said:
Yup. This is about legally addressing the possibility of a monopoly and using that to restructure revenue. It's just so straightforward
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It is possible to believe that NASCAR is an illegal monopoly but be skeptical that taking a nuclear bomb to the sport is likely to result in positive change. These kinds of situations can be messy, especially if it goes to trial.

The best case scenario is a settlement but you also can’t count on that. NASCAR could very well decide to go to trial.
 
StandOnIt said:
Point being the suit wold be much stronger if all of the charter holders were in unison. They aren't
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I don’t think it matters.

If it gets to court, NASCAR’s policies, practices and procedures will be examined as they pertain to antitrust law and the effect their actions have on the full field.

StandOnIt said:
Doesn't sound like it. Richard Childress doesn't think all the boats will rise with the tide. I think many think this is a stick and ball league. Nascar is a business.
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I didn’t hear Childress say that.

What I did hear is him say is that he signed because he had no choice … welfare of employees, manufacturer and sponsor contracts, etc. … the same pressures, stresses and strains “enjoyed” by 23X1, FRM and every other NASCAR Cup Series Charter holding business.

Yes, NASCAR is a business … engaged in the field of professional sports entertainment for profit. Professional “Stick and Ball” leagues are also businesses … engaged in the same way. The differences have to do with ownership and management structures.
 
The Nature Boy said:
It is possible to believe that NASCAR is an illegal monopoly but be skeptical that taking a nuclear bomb to the sport is likely to result in positive change. These kinds of situations can be messy, especially if it goes to trial.

The best case scenario is a settlement but you also can’t count on that. NASCAR could very well decide to go to trial.
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I believe anything is possible at this point.
 
pjmolo said:
Interested to know how the current goings-on might affect this BOLD PREDICTION.

asking for a friend . . .
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I still think it’s the best solution but it won’t make the cutoff for this season.

I think I’ll cut and paste it into the 2025 thread. Any rule against that? Be careful with your answer lest ye be sued for an antitrust violation.
 
aunty dive said:
Yes, NASCAR is a business … engaged in the field of professional sports entertainment for profit. Professional “Stick and Ball” leagues are also businesses … engaged in the same way. The differences have to do with ownership and management structures.
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eh, when they are lawyering for all the players in a union, compared to a couple of independent charter owners I beg to differ.
 
A client is a client.

Again, NASCAR is either in compliance with antitrust law or they aren’t. At the end of this, nothing else will matter.
 
aunty dive said:
I still think it’s the best solution but it won’t make the cutoff for this season.

I think I’ll cut and paste it into the 2025 thread. Any rule against that? Be careful with your answer lest ye be sued for an antitrust violation.
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No idea if you are serious or joking, but I had the same one this year, as last year haha.
 
StandOnIt said:
Doesn't sound like it. Richard Childress doesn't think all the boats will rise with the tide. I think many think this is a stick and ball league. Nascar is a business.
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Are you saying the NFL, the biggest “ stick and ball” league in this country isn’t a business? Jerry Jones and 31 other owners would like a word
 
One thing is typical. Nascar hasn't said a thing. I think because they haven't many think they are guilty. I don't know like everybody here if they are or they aren't. But I do enjoy how complicated this is although some think it is a simple matter. Nascar won the last Anti-trust case that was brought against them so who knows.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
Are you saying the NFL, the biggest “ stick and ball” league in this country isn’t a business? Jerry Jones and 31 other owners would like a word
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These are two organizations in a business enterprise. How is this unfair to them and all of the other organizations have signed and moved on. If the other 32 organizations would have stood up and said yeah me too it would be different.
The players union thing was completely different. All of them against a league.
 
Well, the two sides have been negotiating for two years per Childress. In any negotiation, there comes a point where the company/owner says “here is our final offer” and “here is our deadline”. NASCAR doesn’t want to continue the charters, but from their perspective, the agreement provides 7 more years of charter operation (and the opportunity to sell at whatever the market would bear). The owners chose to sign, regardless of the time frame “pressure”. Didn’t see enough reason to join the Hamsuit.

This will take some time to sort out. Race on boys, and wreck out Hamcrap.
 
The Nature Boy said:
To be fair, every single post from that guy is anti-NASCAR. His mind was made up before the suit was filed.
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True, but the majority here are convinced that Nascar is the evil empire. My best guess is that Nascar has some of the best anti trust lawyers on the case and if something is haywire they will try to negociate. If it is good they will go ahead.
 
BobbyFord said:
I look forward to updates and news about the lawsuit.
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Here’s some …

“In a court filing, 23XI Racing and Front Row Motorsports indicated they planned to file a motion for preliminary injunction “on or about October 8.” In their complaint, the two teams stated that they planned to file a preliminary injunction “that will allow them to accept and operate under the 2025 Charter Agreement until the case is resolved.”

And some more …

“NASCAR and France have not commented publicly on the suit. NASCAR and France both had a waiver of the service summons. That means that they do not have to serve an answer to the complaint until 60 days after the request was sent (which was Oct. 2). Their response is due by Dec. 2.”

www.nbcsports.com

Denny Hamlin focuses on Talladega playoff race amid lawsuit vs. NASCAR

Denny Hamlin said of his mindset for Sunday's playoff race: "I hate to lose and certainly will not justify any excuses to losing. So I’m going to give it all I can.”
www.nbcsports.com www.nbcsports.com
 
StandOnIt said:
One thing is typical. Nascar hasn't said a thing. I think because they haven't many think they are guilty. I don't know like everybody here if they are or they aren't. But I do enjoy how complicated this is although some think it is a simple matter. Nascar won the last Anti-trust case that was brought against them so who knows.
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i would give them till midnight.
 
BobbyFord said:
Dummies are overthinking this. It isn’t a, “who hates NASCAR, who hates Michael and Denny,” thing.
This lawsuit isn’t going to affect attendance or viewership. Sheep graze on bof sides of the fence.
The quality of “racing” is already marginal for some, epic for others.
This is about shutting down the nascar mafia.
I expect the mafia settles out of court, the teams make more money and the fans never know (admit) what happened. Bad day for the nascar-can-do-no-wrong crowd.
Click to expand...
Epic post. Well done.
 
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