If we have to have a playoff system....

wi_racefan

wi_racefan

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Tell me what format you would want....

Here's mine

- After 26 races the top 10 in points do a 10 race playoff.
- no win and you're in
-10 point bonus during regular season for winning a race
- regular season points leader gets a 5 point bonus to start playoffs, 4 points to second and so on....
-playoff drivers are only scored against other playoff drivers. Highest 10pts, 2nd highest 9pts and so on. Doesn't matter how many cars are between playoff drivers
- this eliminates giving up spots because only positions that matter are where you are in relationship to other playoff drivers
- I think this would keep points pretty close and reward the regular season performance as well


Note: still working on non playoff driver points. Don't really think a points reset for them is fair because the gap at the tail of the field is too big.

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Also forgot to add. No longer have stage points. If tv and nascar insist on stages, stage finishers are given a monetary bonus. Something like 20k for 1st, 5k for second and continue to step it down.

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They should at least eliminate the "win and you're in the next round" rule during the playoffs. Whoever wins the first race in the round of 8 has the unfair advantage of being able to ignore the next two races and put all time and effort into Phoenix.
 
wi_racefan said:
Also forgot to add. No longer have stage points. If tv and nascar insist on stages, stage finishers are given a monetary bonus. Something like 20k for 1st, 5k for second and continue to step it down.

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Maybe a single bonus point for stage winner only.
 
hmmm298 said:
Maybe a single bonus point for stage winner only.
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I personally don't want anything. If you want them to race hard give them money. What other sport cares how well you we doing 3/4 of the way through the event. At the end of the day the finish is what matters.

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Daytripper said:
It's gotta rotate, no way it should be at the same track each year. There are probably 10+ tracks that could be in the rotation.
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What tracks?

Homestead
Phoenix
Texas
Daytona
Talladega
Atlanta
Vegas


Those are the only ones that come to mind for a November race. Nascar fans are not football fans and will not turn out for what they call "cold weather"

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wi_racefan said:
What tracks?

Homestead
Phoenix
Texas
Daytona
Talladega
Atlanta
Vegas


Those are the only ones that come to mind for a November race. Nascar fans are not football fans and will not turn out for what they call "cold weather"

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Click to expand...

Heck, I sat and watched a race at Kansas with temperatures in the 30’s. Was I cold? Yes. Was I covered with a blanket? Yes. But it was worth it. That was a rare day though. Recently, it’s been around the 50’s, 60’s and sometimes the 70’s during this time of year.
 
wi_racefan said:
Homestead
Phoenix
Texas
Daytona
Talladega
Atlanta
Vegas

Those are the only ones that come to mind for a November race. Nascar fans are not football fans and will not turn out for what they call "cold weather"

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Click to expand...

All of those tracks except Daytona and Talladega would work for me.

Don't need a "big one" to be playing a part in the championship race.

I'd consider Charlotte as the replacement to make it six tracks on a rotating basis.

It might be a bit of an anomaly but it's expected to be in the 60's in Charlotte next week.
 
1. The "round of 16" is four races. After race #30, 8 drivers are eliminated and 8 advance.

2. The "round of 8" is six races. Points are reset and playoff points are applied as per current rules. The 8 teams have six races to race as a mini-season, and top points total wins the Bill France Cup. (I predict these six races would provide ample "game 7 moments"... but organically, not artificial.)
 
wi_racefan said:
What tracks?

Homestead
Phoenix
Texas
Daytona
Talladega
Atlanta
Vegas


Those are the only ones that come to mind for a November race. Nascar fans are not football fans and will not turn out for what they call "cold weather"
Click to expand...
Bad enough a crapshoot plate race is even in the playoffs, let alone a finale.

NASCAR schedules Martinsville for first weekend in November. It seems to me the difference in weather between that and the second weekend are statistically insignificant.
 
eliminate win and you are in but make winning 5 points more for first than second place so winning is more than slightly better. 1st place 15. 2nd place 10. 3rd place 9. Or something where there is a real reason to win just not a guarantee.

Make playoff races incrementally more $$ for winning so every team is incentivized to keep racing.

Rotate championship tracks…don’t go back to Phoenix for at least 10 years.

Have the regular season champion determined by a point total that accumulates through all races so that someone may still point into it in the final race but still have the playoff champion.

Any teams found colluding are DQd from the current race and next race and no one from that manufacturer can benefit from the actions. Lower the boom.

Relax the tolerance on minor deviations in inspection and make inspections PUBLIC. One reason non-fans don’t care about NaSCAR is they think all the cars are identical. Let there be some variance and may the best engineers benefit (if we want more interest)
 
wi_racefan said:
What tracks?

Homestead
Phoenix
Texas
Daytona
Talladega
Atlanta
Vegas


Those are the only ones that come to mind for a November race. Nascar fans are not football fans and will not turn out for what they call "cold weather"

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Click to expand...

Martinsville, Bristol, cota, Richmond, Darlington, Charlotte, Sonoma, Nashville. It's the middle of November, not January.
 
Daytripper said:
It's gotta rotate, no way it should be at the same track each year. There are probably 10+ tracks that could be in the rotation.
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I don’t have ten but I have
Homestead-Phoenix-Texas-Charlotte oval-Fontana short track (I have confidence it gets built)-Las Vegas-Atlanta-Nashville (FGS when/if reno occurs or the speedway)
 
I’m a simple guy, I couldn’t nor can’t understand why a full season points format would never work, every race is a playoff race in that format right? It’s just a simple way to crown a champion, whoever has most points at the end of the schedule is champion. No controversy needed. However since most here seem to prefer a playoff let’s go with top 12 in points, no more win and you’re in, as for the eliminations keep them even though in the OG Chase format that kind of happened organically. I don’t know how to “ fix” the playoff system, I’d say just put the Chase For The Cup back into existence it’s kind of a comprise between old school full season points people like myself and the playoff loving folks.
 
I agree that the playoffs need an overhaul, but I think the sport is at risk of losing championship legitimacy over how many times the points system has changed. There used to be talk in the early Chase format days of, "without the Chase, so and so would have won the championship".

Well now we've had a Chase with ten drivers, then we had that brief period of time where there was a "wildcard" driver or two and I think it was a 12 driver Chase, then we had this current elimination style/win and you're in format, and now we're looking at a second version of an elimination style.

Yes, every champion is the champion for a reason that season, but I think it makes it difficult to look bad and have prestige over the years when you can't directly compare one champion driver's feat to another. It creates a lot of "what ifs".
 
They can have whatever they want. Seems like plenty of people like amount of discussion this generates and so I guess if anything, make it more Playoff-y and random. Have 5 finalists and run the race at Daytona; 20 make the initial cut. Why not? Everyone else expanded their playoffs and I think more teams make the postseason in the NBA than miss it.
 
cheesepuffs said:
I agree that the playoffs need an overhaul, but I think the sport is at risk of losing championship legitimacy over how many times the points system has changed. There used to be talk in the early Chase format days of, "without the Chase, so and so would have won the championship".

Well now we've had a Chase with ten drivers, then we had that brief period of time where there was a "wildcard" driver or two and I think it was a 12 driver Chase, then we had this current elimination style/win and you're in format, and now we're looking at a second version of an elimination style.

Yes, every champion is the champion for a reason that season, but I think it makes it difficult to look bad and have prestige over the years when you can't directly compare one champion driver's feat to another. It creates a lot of "what ifs".
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I think it would be great if someone like Ricky Stenhouse Jr. won the title because WOW CAN YOU BELIEVE IT I NEVER WOW LOTS OF YELLING IN THE BOOTH. Devalue the title? Well, just go online and tell people that he would have won it anyways in a different format or "Who could really know how it would go?"
 
pjmolo said:
All of those tracks except Daytona and Talladega would work for me.

Don't need a "big one" to be playing a part in the Championship race.

I'd consider Charlotte as the replacement to make it six tracks on a rotating basis.

It might be a bit of an anomaly but it's expected to be in the 60's in Charlotte next week.
Click to expand...

How 'bout having a daytime 600 at Charlotte as the Championship race every six years.

The five years in between it could still be held at night on Memorial Day.
 
I more fully fleshed out my ideas on Reddit with my burner and it was immediately deleted by the mods at r/NASCAR. Well, here it goes:

This is as serious a proposal as anyone can provide online who isn't involved in the series can do, which really makes it about as valuable for input as something from a tire changer or Xfinity team's social media person.

DESIRED END GOAL: Reduce the number of fans who are upset that their drivers are left out of a chance to win a title, while elevating the importance of winning over points racing to determine a champion. At the same time, make the opportunity to win a title more equitable to all the participants.

To accomplish this, I offer the following ideas:

  • Expanding the field of playoff teams from 16 to 20. This year's champion finished with an average 17.1 finish in races, nearly equivalent to the late Bobby Hamilton's average finish in 1998. Bobby Hamilton never really was in the running to win a title, and it appears that modern fans who've accepted the playoffs would probably like that. We need more Bobby Hamiltons and less Dale Earnhardts in NASCAR, obviously. Expanding the field to 20 reduces the number of teams on the outside looking in. Almost no one who is a name and not totally washed up would miss the playoffs. Whoever it is that does merchandising will love the increased opportunities of sales for things like Corey LaJoie Playoff Run garb. I'm sure it'll sell like hot cakes.
  • Four rounds of playoffs still and "win and you're in" is retained, but with some twists. The first round of playoffs is a "win to get in" event, preferably at Atlanta or Talladega where talent is minimized as being a relevant factor to be competitive.
    • The top 10 finishers from the 20 finalists make it to the next round of 3 races which will be intended to whittle down the 10 to 5 in much the same fashion as now. Then we get to the semi finals.
    • The semi finals will be 5 races, and the winner advances to the finale. What if the winner already won? Well, then the winner is the next finisher among playoff drivers. What if a nonplayoff driver wins? Well, they win the "regular" race and the winner of the "playoff race" advances. Adopt LED lights on the cars like IMSA to let the fans and TV production crew know who the real leader is, since winning the race is a nice bonus but not really necessary or even anything we should care about compared to advancement in the postseason.
      • This is also a great chance for teams who already locked in to just cruise. They can even get bonus money for testing young drivers in the car during this time frame. Mock F1 while you do it to ensure their fans are put in their place.
    • Finale is obviously going to be at Daytona now in this model. I mean, obviously, that is the best place to start and end the season in this iteration of Anything Can Happen In The National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing. Ideally, every cutoff race would be at a plate track but I understand that is unwieldly. Maybe bring back the 550 package for the 1.5s but decrease the HP even more so we can get more pack racing.
    • Front load the schedule with road courses that way you can eliminate the ringers as soon as humanly possible. Well, except McDowell. He gets to stick around until the round of 10 ends. Maybe with enough sneaking into the second round of the playoffs he can claim to be a HOF worthy guy?
  • Add another stage so we can get more commercials in and give out more points.
  • Encourage more yelling from Leigh Diffey.
  • Make sure to ask fans to use things like hashtags to talk about how controversial the points system is. Lean into it totally. Act like no one at NASCAR has any agency whatsoever and the system was put into place by God.
  • In fact, say the system itself is the spoken word of God. Find a televangelist who says Big Bill came to him in the night with my recommendations.
What do you all think?
 
virtualbalboa said:
I more fully fleshed out my ideas on Reddit with my burner and it was immediately deleted by the mods at r/NASCAR. Well, here it goes:

This is as serious a proposal as anyone can provide online who isn't involved in the series can do, which really makes it about as valuable for input as something from a tire changer or Xfinity team's social media person.

DESIRED END GOAL: Reduce the number of fans who are upset that their drivers are left out of a chance to win a title, while elevating the importance of winning over points racing to determine a champion. At the same time, make the opportunity to win a title more equitable to all the participants.

To accomplish this, I offer the following ideas:

  • Expanding the field of playoff teams from 16 to 20. This year's champion finished with an average 17.1 finish in races, nearly equivalent to the late Bobby Hamilton's average finish in 1998. Bobby Hamilton never really was in the running to win a title, and it appears that modern fans who've accepted the playoffs would probably like that. We need more Bobby Hamiltons and less Dale Earnhardts in NASCAR, obviously. Expanding the field to 20 reduces the number of teams on the outside looking in. Almost no one who is a name and not totally washed up would miss the playoffs. Whoever it is that does merchandising will love the increased opportunities of sales for things like Corey LaJoie Playoff Run garb. I'm sure it'll sell like hot cakes.
  • Four rounds of playoffs still and "win and you're in" is retained, but with some twists. The first round of playoffs is a "win to get in" event, preferably at Atlanta or Talladega where talent is minimized as being a relevant factor to be competitive.
    • The top 10 finishers from the 20 finalists make it to the next round of 3 races which will be intended to whittle down the 10 to 5 in much the same fashion as now. Then we get to the semi finals.
    • The semi finals will be 5 races, and the winner advances to the finale. What if the winner already won? Well, then the winner is the next finisher among playoff drivers. What if a nonplayoff driver wins? Well, they win the "regular" race and the winner of the "playoff race" advances. Adopt LED lights on the cars like IMSA to let the fans and TV production crew know who the real leader is, since winning the race is a nice bonus but not really necessary or even anything we should care about compared to advancement in the postseason.
      • This is also a great chance for teams who already locked in to just cruise. They can even get bonus money for testing young drivers in the car during this time frame. Mock F1 while you do it to ensure their fans are put in their place.
    • Finale is obviously going to be at Daytona now in this model. I mean, obviously, that is the best place to start and end the season in this iteration of Anything Can Happen In The National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing. Ideally, every cutoff race would be at a plate track but I understand that is unwieldly. Maybe bring back the 550 package for the 1.5s but decrease the HP even more so we can get more pack racing.
    • Front load the schedule with road courses that way you can eliminate the ringers as soon as humanly possible. Well, except McDowell. He gets to stick around until the round of 10 ends. Maybe with enough sneaking into the second round of the playoffs he can claim to be a HOF worthy guy?
  • Add another stage so we can get more commercials in and give out more points.
  • Encourage more yelling from Leigh Diffey.
  • Make sure to ask fans to use things like hashtags to talk about how controversial the points system is. Lean into it totally. Act like no one at NASCAR has any agency whatsoever and the system was put into place by God.
  • In fact, say the system itself is the spoken word of God. Find a televangelist who says Big Bill came to him in the night with my recommendations.
What do you all think?
Click to expand...
thats out there.
 
I actually like this format if we're going to keep a playoff format.

 
jaqua19 said:
What am I missing? How is this different than what we have now?
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Top 8 are locked into the round of 12, the 9-12th spot is determined by that first race that’s like a wildcard race. After that it’s basically what we got now where it’s 3 races and elimination for round of 12 and 8. Then the final 4 is 3 races to race for a championship.
 
MRM said:
I actually like this format if we're going to keep a playoff format.

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Frankly I’d be surprised if this isn’t what nascar decides to go with after “they take a look at the playoff format”. I’d actually take it one step further: Regular Season champion gets a berth in the championship round. Rewards the regular season grind but yet said driver/team still has to endure a playoff round.
 
Blaze said:
Top 8 are locked into the round of 12, the 9-12th spot is determined by that first race that’s like a wildcard race. After that it’s basically what we got now where it’s 3 races and elimination for round of 12 and 8. Then the final 4 is 3 races to race for a championship.
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I kinda like it, not gonna lie. It weeds about the 12-16 drivers we have to pretend have a chance to advance out further in the playoffs. We all watch the races, we knew that there was no chance in hell a Harrison Burton this year had a chance. This system seems to cut that bs out right away.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
I kinda like it, not gonna lie. It weeds about the 12-16 drivers we have to pretend have a chance to advance out further in the playoffs. We all watch the races, we knew that there was no chance in hell a Harrison Burton this year had a chance. This system seems to cut that bs out right away.
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Definitely an improvement over what we got now. It’s. It entirely ideal to me, but anything where it’s more than a one race deal is better and if it’s the best we can get so be it.
 
JJ_14 said:
I don't think having three races were drivers have to get out of the way is a good idea.
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True maybe, but the way things are now I believe the otherlings are given orders to race the opposing brands as hard as possible but don't get caught doing it. So out of the way and in the way gets pretty blurry in some cases.
The whole playoff system as Andy says is ripe for bobdonagins.
 
If we have to have a playoff system just keep it simple and consistent. I would personally do 5 races with top 5 or 10 races with top 10 in points, wins be damned.

Or “full send” it and automatically qualify all winners. Start all playoff drivers at the start of the field every playoff race and award double points for winning races. Have season finale be a doubleheader with top 5 in points racing amongst themselves for 50 laps to determine the champion.
 
^At least re-adopt the name to describe NASCAR's post-season. Calling it the "playoffs" doesn't distinguish it from team stick-and-ball sports which have little in common with motorsports.
 
Jimbo Slice said:
^At least re-adopt the name to describe NASCAR's post-season. Calling it the "playoffs" doesn't distinguish it from team stick-and-ball sports which have little in common with motorsports.
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The whole point of it was do those fans would start watching NASCAR because “playoffs”
 
I don't want anyone locked into the championship race/round. Look at what the 22 did. Did anyone even know they were at Miami and martinsville?

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wi_racefan said:
I don't want anyone locked into the championship race/round. Look at what the 22 did. Did anyone even know they were at Miami and martinsville?

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My guess would be they were working their tails off keeping the 12 car in the hunt, and Logano was driving something they pulled out of the back room.
 
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