Enough Is Enough Full Season Championship.

DIDIT said:
True, but my point has been focused on the reward of winning a race and making the playoffs. Where a team ultimately finishes in the points is really a different discussion than "no one likes the win and your in" rule. I do.
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Ya can't have one without the other, that is the playoff system they came up with. Penalizing other drivers who deserve to be in the playoffs doesn't work for some of us who follow the sport and rewarding teams who in no way earned a spot? Nascar and the gerbils do their best to coverup the screwing that is going on.
The argument of oh, they won't make it out of the first round excludes teams that have been knocked out by some teams who have fluke wins. Buescher proved that last year winning a race after they were knocked out by a team ranked in the 30's.
 
StandOnIt said:
Ya can't have one without the other, that is the playoff system they came up with. Penalizing other drivers who deserve to be in the playoffs doesn't work for some of us who follow the sport and rewarding teams who in no way earned a spot? Nascar and the gerbils do their best to coverup the screwing that is going on.
The argument of oh, they won't make it out of the first round excludes teams that have been knocked out by some teams who have fluke wins. Buescher proved that last year winning a race after they were knocked out by a team ranked in the 30's.
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OK, so you got me to thinking a bit more. Frankly at this point in time I don't really care who finishes where in points other than the champion.

NASCAR has always screwed the teams. Years ago when Dave Blaney drove for Tommy Baldwin they had a souvenir trailer that showed up for the Daytona 500. They got placed on the backstretch inside the gate where there was very limited fan access as opposed to being placed on the frontstretch midway outside the gate. No doubt that cost them a few bucks.
 
Revman said:
Booked Phoenix for the farce next year. You guys carry on.
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Even though I hate the points system and championship race idea I’d still go to Phoenix. I traveled there for work in a previous career and I always loved the place. Also always wanted to go to a race there, it’s on my bucket list of tracks.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
Even though I hate the points system and championship race idea I’d still go to Phoenix. I traveled there for work in a previous career and I always loved the place. Also always wanted to go to a race there, it’s on my bucket list of tracks.
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Go! It's awesome.
 
StandOnIt said:
Ya can't have one without the other, that is the playoff system they came up with. Penalizing other drivers who deserve to be in the playoffs doesn't work for some of us who follow the sport and rewarding teams who in no way earned a spot? Nascar and the gerbils do their best to coverup the screwing that is going on.
The argument of oh, they won't make it out of the first round excludes teams that have been knocked out by some teams who have fluke wins. Buescher proved that last year winning a race after they were knocked out by a team ranked in the 30's.
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To your point, I’d have rather seen Buescher in the playoffs than Burton. I just think the 17 could have done more with the playoff spot than the 21 who was already in trouble like 150 laps in the first playoff race. I don’t get how those that advocate for the playoffs are okay with scenario like the 21 this year, you knew they didn’t belong on merit. They just won a race and congrats, but the true logic of a playoff is seeing the best of the best square off to be crowned champion, I think that’s safe to say for any sport. Any playoff that has a team like the 21 in its tournament is flawed logic and again sorry to pick on the 21, they’re just the most recent example to use.
 
DIDIT said:
OK, so you got me to thinking a bit more. Frankly at this point in time I don't really care who finishes where in points other than the champion.

NASCAR has always screwed the teams. Years ago when Dave Blaney drove for Tommy Baldwin they had a souvenir trailer that showed up for the Daytona 500. They got placed on the backstretch inside the gate where there was very limited fan access as opposed to being placed on the frontstretch midway outside the gate. No doubt that cost them a few bucks.
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That is along the lines of thinking that life is fair, lol. We all have had and will have if we haven't our time in the bucket. Champion? You mean the driver that doesn't necessarily have the best driving record but they win the last race, the 4 car lottery. The three Nascar series has had two years in a row of that.
 
What I am saying is I don't even care who ends up the champions, that is how much my fandom has diminished. I'm pretty much here for the on track racing and that is about it.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
Even though I hate the points system and championship race idea I’d still go to Phoenix. I traveled there for work in a previous career and I always loved the place. Also always wanted to go to a race there, it’s on my bucket list of tracks.
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I'll go anywhere I can combine watching a race with watching birds. Southern AZ is chock full of good avians.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I'll go anywhere I can combine watching a race with watching birds. Southern AZ is chock full of good avians.
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What is spectacular is if you can catch the desert after a good rain storm. The place explodes with colors of all kinds. If an when you are out there and you hear of an area the got rain, it is worth it to drive out there.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
To your point, I’d have rather seen Buescher in the playoffs than Burton. I just think the 17 could have done more with the playoff spot than the 21 who was already in trouble like 150 laps in the first playoff race. I don’t get how those that advocate for the playoffs are okay with scenario like the 21 this year, you knew they didn’t belong on merit. They just won a race and congrats, but the true logic of a playoff is seeing the best of the best square off to be crowned champion, I think that’s safe to say for any sport. Any playoff that has a team like the 21 in its tournament is flawed logic and again sorry to pick on the 21, they’re just the most recent example to use.
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ten top teams in points race for 5 races with poorest team in each race being dropped.
The top 5 teams left race for 5 races with total points being crowned season champion.
no flukes or fowl, you earn your way in.
 
The situation actually reminds me a lot of the late great RFFL, where there was a winner of the Playoff segment of the season and then there was the winner of the Full Season Championship. The latter in my opinion, is what the NASCAR Cup Series Championship is supposed to represent and reflect THE BEST PERFORMANCE over the course of the entire 36 race season. NASCAR IS NOT OTHER SPORTS, there are ZERO other sports where all 40 competitors play against each other each and every week, this is the reason why playoffs exist outside of motorsports because they play h2h games against singular opponents at different times and there are not enough weeks in the season to play against everyone equally. NASCAR IS SPECIAL in this regard and should embrace this fact instead of attempting to be something they are not.

If they have contractually obligated themselves there may be a loophole that would allow them to elevate the regular season championship to the full season championship, while keeping the playoffs in place as a separate points race.

It is abundantly clear to me after the Martinsville debacle, with multiple manufacturer’s involved, that a significant change is needed. I’ve never been more embarrassed as a fan to watch that. I did not watch a minute of “championship weekend” after that this year, and I will not watch a minute of it next year without significant changes by NASCAR, race/points manipulation should never enter the equation for a Championship which will continue to be a problem when you have 1 race deciding it. WE AS FANS give so much to NASCAR. We all love NASCAR that have stayed with them thru the years, we want it to be legitimately valued not turned into an embarrassing disaster, so please NASCAR give us a product and points system that we can rally behind as fans.
 
Appreciate the system for what it is.....It puts four teams in a situation where they need to perform at the highest level....and with that, Penske has won the last three. I get the limitations and imperfections of what we have, but in the course of bitching about it, we have lost what Penske has accomplished. They didn't have the best cars, nor the best drivers, but Roger Penske is the best organization hands down in NASCAR...and this system rewarded that. While WE were playing games with The Felon's Thugs, Ford and Penske were getting ready to steal the show....and they did just that. I don't like it, but I appreciate it.
 
I'm somewhat amused by the discussions regarding which system should be used to determine the 16 drivers that are eligible to make the playoffs and have a chance at winning the season championship.

No matter which system that might seem better than another, imo it still amounts to putting lipstick on a pig.
 
The best way to determine a champion is most overall wins. Tiebreaker would be total points.
 
The points system in racing should award points for every finishing position in the race and run the whole season. It doesn't work to be mimicking stick and ball architecture. They are not even close to being the same.
The NFL doesn't even know who Champion Kevin Harvick is or his son Keelan are. Somebodies bright idea isn't working.

 
Jimbo Slice said:
The best way to determine a champion is most overall wins. Tiebreaker would be total points.
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Make the championship based on a metric combining and averaging the two somehow, like they do for qualifying rainouts etc, and then watch people bitch trying to keep up with it. Would be great entertainment IMO.
 
hmmm298 said:
Make the championship based on a metric combining and averaging the two somehow,
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That's simple. Most of us here have long said that winning should award more points. Both the Latford and current point system don't award enough points for winning. 'Win and In' takes it too far. Another flaw with the current system is the winner can leave with fewer points that drivers who win stages and finish well. Give more points to the winner, maybe 75. This places more emphasis on winning and allows point totals alone to be used to as a playoff qualifier.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
That's simple. Most of us here have long said that winning should award more points. Both the Latford and current point system don't award enough points for winning. 'Win and In' takes it too far. Another flaw with the current system is the winner can leave with fewer points that drivers who win stages and finish well. Give more points to the winner, maybe 75. This places more emphasis on winning and allows point totals alone to be used to as a playoff qualifier.
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But use the points standings plus then add in the number of wins again after calculating points to combine for a metric, not just based on points, but the two combined afterwards. I’d also throw in average running position and poles.
 
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