Enough Is Enough Full Season Championship.

DIDIT said:
True, but my point has been focused on the reward of winning a race and making the playoffs. Where a team ultimately finishes in the points is really a different discussion than "no one likes the win and your in" rule. I do.
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Ya can't have one without the other, that is the playoff system they came up with. Penalizing other drivers who deserve to be in the playoffs doesn't work for some of us who follow the sport and rewarding teams who in no way earned a spot? Nascar and the gerbils do their best to coverup the screwing that is going on.
The argument of oh, they won't make it out of the first round excludes teams that have been knocked out by some teams who have fluke wins. Buescher proved that last year winning a race after they were knocked out by a team ranked in the 30's.
 
StandOnIt said:
Ya can't have one without the other, that is the playoff system they came up with. Penalizing other drivers who deserve to be in the playoffs doesn't work for some of us who follow the sport and rewarding teams who in no way earned a spot? Nascar and the gerbils do their best to coverup the screwing that is going on.
The argument of oh, they won't make it out of the first round excludes teams that have been knocked out by some teams who have fluke wins. Buescher proved that last year winning a race after they were knocked out by a team ranked in the 30's.
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OK, so you got me to thinking a bit more. Frankly at this point in time I don't really care who finishes where in points other than the champion.

NASCAR has always screwed the teams. Years ago when Dave Blaney drove for Tommy Baldwin they had a souvenir trailer that showed up for the Daytona 500. They got placed on the backstretch inside the gate where there was very limited fan access as opposed to being placed on the frontstretch midway outside the gate. No doubt that cost them a few bucks.
 
Revman said:
Booked Phoenix for the farce next year. You guys carry on.
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Even though I hate the points system and championship race idea I’d still go to Phoenix. I traveled there for work in a previous career and I always loved the place. Also always wanted to go to a race there, it’s on my bucket list of tracks.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
Even though I hate the points system and championship race idea I’d still go to Phoenix. I traveled there for work in a previous career and I always loved the place. Also always wanted to go to a race there, it’s on my bucket list of tracks.
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Go! It's awesome.
 
StandOnIt said:
Ya can't have one without the other, that is the playoff system they came up with. Penalizing other drivers who deserve to be in the playoffs doesn't work for some of us who follow the sport and rewarding teams who in no way earned a spot? Nascar and the gerbils do their best to coverup the screwing that is going on.
The argument of oh, they won't make it out of the first round excludes teams that have been knocked out by some teams who have fluke wins. Buescher proved that last year winning a race after they were knocked out by a team ranked in the 30's.
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To your point, I’d have rather seen Buescher in the playoffs than Burton. I just think the 17 could have done more with the playoff spot than the 21 who was already in trouble like 150 laps in the first playoff race. I don’t get how those that advocate for the playoffs are okay with scenario like the 21 this year, you knew they didn’t belong on merit. They just won a race and congrats, but the true logic of a playoff is seeing the best of the best square off to be crowned champion, I think that’s safe to say for any sport. Any playoff that has a team like the 21 in its tournament is flawed logic and again sorry to pick on the 21, they’re just the most recent example to use.
 
DIDIT said:
OK, so you got me to thinking a bit more. Frankly at this point in time I don't really care who finishes where in points other than the champion.

NASCAR has always screwed the teams. Years ago when Dave Blaney drove for Tommy Baldwin they had a souvenir trailer that showed up for the Daytona 500. They got placed on the backstretch inside the gate where there was very limited fan access as opposed to being placed on the frontstretch midway outside the gate. No doubt that cost them a few bucks.
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That is along the lines of thinking that life is fair, lol. We all have had and will have if we haven't our time in the bucket. Champion? You mean the driver that doesn't necessarily have the best driving record but they win the last race, the 4 car lottery. The three Nascar series has had two years in a row of that.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
Even though I hate the points system and championship race idea I’d still go to Phoenix. I traveled there for work in a previous career and I always loved the place. Also always wanted to go to a race there, it’s on my bucket list of tracks.
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I'll go anywhere I can combine watching a race with watching birds. Southern AZ is chock full of good avians.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I'll go anywhere I can combine watching a race with watching birds. Southern AZ is chock full of good avians.
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What is spectacular is if you can catch the desert after a good rain storm. The place explodes with colors of all kinds. If an when you are out there and you hear of an area the got rain, it is worth it to drive out there.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
To your point, I’d have rather seen Buescher in the playoffs than Burton. I just think the 17 could have done more with the playoff spot than the 21 who was already in trouble like 150 laps in the first playoff race. I don’t get how those that advocate for the playoffs are okay with scenario like the 21 this year, you knew they didn’t belong on merit. They just won a race and congrats, but the true logic of a playoff is seeing the best of the best square off to be crowned champion, I think that’s safe to say for any sport. Any playoff that has a team like the 21 in its tournament is flawed logic and again sorry to pick on the 21, they’re just the most recent example to use.
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ten top teams in points race for 5 races with poorest team in each race being dropped.
The top 5 teams left race for 5 races with total points being crowned season champion.
no flukes or fowl, you earn your way in.
 
The situation actually reminds me a lot of the late great RFFL, where there was a winner of the Playoff segment of the season and then there was the winner of the Full Season Championship. The latter in my opinion, is what the NASCAR Cup Series Championship is supposed to represent and reflect THE BEST PERFORMANCE over the course of the entire 36 race season. NASCAR IS NOT OTHER SPORTS, there are ZERO other sports where all 40 competitors play against each other each and every week, this is the reason why playoffs exist outside of motorsports because they play h2h games against singular opponents at different times and there are not enough weeks in the season to play against everyone equally. NASCAR IS SPECIAL in this regard and should embrace this fact instead of attempting to be something they are not.

If they have contractually obligated themselves there may be a loophole that would allow them to elevate the regular season championship to the full season championship, while keeping the playoffs in place as a separate points race.

It is abundantly clear to me after the Martinsville debacle, with multiple manufacturer’s involved, that a significant change is needed. I’ve never been more embarrassed as a fan to watch that. I did not watch a minute of “championship weekend” after that this year, and I will not watch a minute of it next year without significant changes by NASCAR, race/points manipulation should never enter the equation for a Championship which will continue to be a problem when you have 1 race deciding it. WE AS FANS give so much to NASCAR. We all love NASCAR that have stayed with them thru the years, we want it to be legitimately valued not turned into an embarrassing disaster, so please NASCAR give us a product and points system that we can rally behind as fans.
 
Appreciate the system for what it is.....It puts four teams in a situation where they need to perform at the highest level....and with that, Penske has won the last three. I get the limitations and imperfections of what we have, but in the course of bitching about it, we have lost what Penske has accomplished. They didn't have the best cars, nor the best drivers, but Roger Penske is the best organization hands down in NASCAR...and this system rewarded that. While WE were playing games with The Felon's Thugs, Ford and Penske were getting ready to steal the show....and they did just that. I don't like it, but I appreciate it.
 
I'm somewhat amused by the discussions regarding which system should be used to determine the 16 drivers that are eligible to make the playoffs and have a chance at winning the season championship.

No matter which system that might seem better than another, imo it still amounts to putting lipstick on a pig.
 
The best way to determine a champion is most overall wins. Tiebreaker would be total points.
 
The points system in racing should award points for every finishing position in the race and run the whole season. It doesn't work to be mimicking stick and ball architecture. They are not even close to being the same.
The NFL doesn't even know who Champion Kevin Harvick is or his son Keelan are. Somebodies bright idea isn't working.

 
Jimbo Slice said:
The best way to determine a champion is most overall wins. Tiebreaker would be total points.
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Make the championship based on a metric combining and averaging the two somehow, like they do for qualifying rainouts etc, and then watch people bitch trying to keep up with it. Would be great entertainment IMO.
 
hmmm298 said:
Make the championship based on a metric combining and averaging the two somehow,
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That's simple. Most of us here have long said that winning should award more points. Both the Latford and current point system don't award enough points for winning. 'Win and In' takes it too far. Another flaw with the current system is the winner can leave with fewer points that drivers who win stages and finish well. Give more points to the winner, maybe 75. This places more emphasis on winning and allows point totals alone to be used to as a playoff qualifier.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
That's simple. Most of us here have long said that winning should award more points. Both the Latford and current point system don't award enough points for winning. 'Win and In' takes it too far. Another flaw with the current system is the winner can leave with fewer points that drivers who win stages and finish well. Give more points to the winner, maybe 75. This places more emphasis on winning and allows point totals alone to be used to as a playoff qualifier.
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But use the points standings plus then add in the number of wins again after calculating points to combine for a metric, not just based on points, but the two combined afterwards. I’d also throw in average running position and poles.
 
Jimbo Slice said:
^NASCAR should give it up and end the season in September.
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Thanks for playing our game! We have some lovely parting gifts for you. There's a case of Turtle Wax, the deluxe version of 'NASCAR Antitrust: The Home Game', and a lifetime supply of Rice-A-Roni, 'The San Francisco Treat' <ding ding>!
 
Per ChatGPT
What is the perfect Nascar playoff format?

The **perfect NASCAR playoff format** is subjective and can vary depending on individual preferences, but ideally, it should balance competitiveness, drama, and fairness while rewarding consistency and peak performance at the right time. Below is a potential "perfect" playoff format that addresses common criticisms of the current system while maintaining the excitement NASCAR fans love.

### Key Goals for a Perfect Playoff System:

1. **Reward Consistency and Performance:** A driver who performs well across the season should still have a fair chance of winning the championship.
2. **Incorporate High-Stakes Drama:** The format should amplify the drama, creating more storylines that keep fans engaged from the first race to the final lap.
3. **Offer Opportunities for Upsets:** While consistency is rewarded, the format should also allow for underdogs to have a shot at the championship.
4. **Minimize the Impact of Randomness:** While racing can be unpredictable, the playoffs shouldn't feel like the champion was determined entirely by luck.
5. **Maximize Engagement:** The format should keep fans and media interested in the playoffs with clear stakes and easy-to-understand progression.

### A Revised, Ideal NASCAR Playoff Format:

---

### **1. Regular Season Points System (No Changes)**

- **Points awarded**: Keep the current points system for the regular season with points awarded based on race finishes, stage points, and bonuses for wins.
- **Playoff spots**: The top 16 drivers with the most points at the end of the regular season automatically make the playoffs. This rewards overall consistency throughout the season.

### **2. Playoff Structure: 16 Drivers, 4 Rounds (No Eliminations Until the Final Round)**

**Round 1: "The Round of Consistency" (First 3 Races of the Playoffs)**
- **Top 16 drivers make the playoffs** (as in the current format, but no eliminations until the final round).
- **Points reset** to a more reasonable, smaller range, say 1000 points, with a 20-point bonus for wins.
- **All drivers race through the first 3 rounds** without eliminations.
- The goal is to reward drivers who consistently perform well during the regular season but still allow for some variance. The drama from this stage comes from the importance of every race toward a final 4 in Round 4.

**Round 2: "The Elimination Round" (4 Races Before the Final Race)**
- After the first 12 playoff drivers (still no eliminations in Round 2), the field will still include all playoff drivers.
- Points reset after Round 4.
 
Garbage in garbage out. ChatGPT uses the info from the web (including here) and spews out whatever keeps popping up. It has its uses but it’s still essentially a fancy Wikipedia. When it really starts to think for itself we are doomed.
 
rd45usa said:
3. **Offer Opportunities for Upsets:** While consistency is rewarded, the format should also allow for underdogs to have a shot at the championship.
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How about 'MINIMIZES the opportunities for upsets"? Underdogs should have to bust ass, not be handed a free pass.
rd45usa said:
- **Top 16 drivers make the playoffs** (as in the current format, but no eliminations until the final round).
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Then what's the point of each round?
rd45usa said:
- After the first 12 playoff drivers (still no eliminations in Round 2), the field will still include all playoff drivers.
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That sentence doesn't parse. Random phrases you use, mmh?

Oh, and there is no 'perfect' championship format, playoffs or not.
 
"Drives engagement from fans" = how many posts complaining on social media about the championship are made of which can be construed by management as A Good Thing. NASCAR and WWE are historically very similar to each other and more similar to each other than anything else IMO. This use of engagement on social media was very notably a thing WWE did when it was run by a serial rapist that booked programs intentionally to piss fans off but amuse him. He lost millions of fans and live event revenue dropped like a stone, but media rights deals kept growing and more than made up for it. Sounding familiar?
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Thanks for playing our game! We have some lovely parting gifts for you. There's a case of Turtle Wax, the deluxe version of 'NASCAR Antitrust: The Home Game', and a lifetime supply of Rice-A-Roni, 'The San Francisco Treat' <ding ding>!
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Great post. Turtle Wax....was solid in its day.....NASCAR Antitrust....Sue the leadership....move three spaces forward to NASCAR split......Rice-A-Roni....so underestimated.
 
Eliminate the "win and you're in" rule for both regular season and playoffs, cut the playoff field back to 12 with three rounds of three races each.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
How about 'MINIMIZES the opportunities for upsets"? Underdogs should have to bust ass, not be handed a free pass.

Then what's the point of each round?

That sentence doesn't parse. Random phrases you use, mmh?

Oh, and there is no 'perfect' championship format, playoffs or not.
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That's what ChatGPT spit out, I was just showing what the AI would recommend.
 
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