America's war on cars and how it affects NASCAR
- Thread starter HoneyBadger
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HoneyBadger
Kelsey Mitchell fan account
I got halfway through and found this video to be off base, but certainly worthy of provoking a discussion.
Slappy's trying to blame America's obsession with SUVs and big ass trucks on Obama policies.
IMO, the main reason people stopped buying sedans from Ford, Chevy and Dodge is because they've been notoriously unreliable for so long. I think most people who are going to buy a sedan for commuting to work and back are going to buy a Toyota Corolla. Or even a hybrid vehicle.
Big trucks are a culture thing.
Slappy's trying to blame America's obsession with SUVs and big ass trucks on Obama policies.
IMO, the main reason people stopped buying sedans from Ford, Chevy and Dodge is because they've been notoriously unreliable for so long. I think most people who are going to buy a sedan for commuting to work and back are going to buy a Toyota Corolla. Or even a hybrid vehicle.
Big trucks are a culture thing.
Government fuel fleet standards were inadvertently encouraging manufacturers to build trucks and SUVs long before Obama ran for his first office. By setting the overall minimum MPG for vehicles build on a truck chassis to be lower than cars, the government made it cheaper to build trucks instead of researching ways to improve car fuel economy. Since the big vehicles are where the profits are, that's what the advertising pushes, convincing people that's what they want.
But yeah, it doesn't help that quality standards for the former Big Three have been sliding for almost as long.
HoneyBadger
Kelsey Mitchell fan account
2022 was the tell tale sign that Americans won't buy cars anymore. Gas was $4/gallon and people were still buying trucks and preferred complaining about gas prices than downsizing.
Yeah, I've never gotten that. I know so many people with what appear to me to be more vehicle than they'll ever need. No kids, nothing to tow, rolling full time in a Silverado Pavement Princess.
HoneyBadger
Kelsey Mitchell fan account
I've had people who have these big ass trucks ask to borrow mine to haul scrap or something because they don't want to scratch the bed of their truck.
They're glorified minivans designed to look masculine.
He forgot to say 2 years later in 2011 (Obama) CAFE relations were changed and tightened for his B.S. story. People buy what they want to buy. Trucks are now majority 4 doors can carry 5 or 6 pretty comfortably, can tow a small house and some SUV's aren't far behind.
I he forgot to mention that this current administration relaxed the EPA's regulations of methane gas pollution a gift to big oil and not a peep was said about the growing EV/Hybrid market.
I he forgot to mention that this current administration relaxed the EPA's regulations of methane gas pollution a gift to big oil and not a peep was said about the growing EV/Hybrid market.
I didn't forget it; I didn't know it. Thanks for the correction, although not for the incorrect assumption.
Agreed, but no one should expect the price of gas to be what it was when they made their purchase. Commodities don't work like that.
GM isn't hurting
The automaker raised its guidance once again. GM now expects adjusted earnings of $13 billion to $15 billion; net income of $10 billion to $11.4 billion; more free cash flow and capital spending in the $10.5 billion to $11.5 billion range which bodes well for future products.
Ford doesn't appear to be hurting either.
Ford Motor announced Q3 2025 earnings on October 23, 2025, reporting an EPS of $0.45, which topped the consensus estimate of $0.38 by $0.07. Quarterly revenue rose 9.4% year-over-year to $50.53 billion, above analysts' expectations of $43.08 billion. With a trailing EPS of $1.16 and a P/E Ratio of 11.06, Ford Motor's earnings are expected to grow 4.76% next year, from $1.47 to $1.54 per share.
The automaker raised its guidance once again. GM now expects adjusted earnings of $13 billion to $15 billion; net income of $10 billion to $11.4 billion; more free cash flow and capital spending in the $10.5 billion to $11.5 billion range which bodes well for future products.
Ford doesn't appear to be hurting either.
Ford Motor announced Q3 2025 earnings on October 23, 2025, reporting an EPS of $0.45, which topped the consensus estimate of $0.38 by $0.07. Quarterly revenue rose 9.4% year-over-year to $50.53 billion, above analysts' expectations of $43.08 billion. With a trailing EPS of $1.16 and a P/E Ratio of 11.06, Ford Motor's earnings are expected to grow 4.76% next year, from $1.47 to $1.54 per share.
I was referring to the article, not yourself.
wi_racefan
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Like my old neighbor. He went from a Honda civic to a 6.2L Trail Boss lol! I don't even think he owns a trailer hitch
It isn't beyond the realm of possibility that future Nascar's will be modeled after EV's or Hybrids. They are fast as hell some of them and they look like grandmas grocery getter.
Nothing written in stone, but Motor Trend is writing stories about it.
I've long wondered why NASCAR hasn't moved its race trucks to the top series. Those are what customers want, and what drive the manufacturers' profits, not limited production niche vehicles. (Not to mention that would resolve so many aero problems!)
Same here. I think the traditional fan would have a cat probably.
Pretty sure that is one of the reasons Heim has been stuck in the Truck series for so long.
LouieLouie
Team Owner
I thought a lot of the reason sedans went away was because of insurance and EPA rules. It was always more expensive to insure a coup than a sedan. Then when SUVs got popular, sedans became more expensive to insure. Then the EPA came along and said coups, sedans had to meet certain mpg but SUVs didn't. And that killed the sedan. Now, all cars are being made bigger to be considered in the next higher class but have smaller engines to meet mpg regs. Its how the "small" trucks came about. The Colorado, ranger, etc are the same size as a year 2000 F150 but only have a 4 cylinder turbo in them now. The original Colorado, Rangers, etc used to be the size of a current Traverse or Explorer, or even slightly smaller than those which also have 4 cy turbos.
MRM
Team Owner
I have a car and prefer to drive a car even though my wife's SUV drives more like a car than our first SUV from '03. Most SUV's are built on car chassis. Most ride and drive like a car. They sit higher up, which is one of the reasons why I hear people say they don't want to go back to the car. I'm still hoping it's a cyclical thing.
As far as trucks, I think for a lot of truck owners it's about waving the biggest thing they have that's not in their pants. Many of today's trucks won't fit into a normal parking space. I hate trying to get around or park next to one in a lot or a garage.
As far as trucks, I think for a lot of truck owners it's about waving the biggest thing they have that's not in their pants. Many of today's trucks won't fit into a normal parking space. I hate trying to get around or park next to one in a lot or a garage.
virtualbalboa
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Sedans are probably dead. Hatchbacks have more utility. That's ultimately the reason for it.
Naitch
Reads history books
Actual analysis is a weak point for Slap. I remember a video where he argued that Greenville, SC deserved a track because they had five within a 2.5 hour drive. That’s not the conclusion that his data supported. If anything, it’s an a huge argument against Greenville having a track.
He’s a passable researcher, his work on finding information about Air Base Speedway was pretty great. I have also watched videos of his where I have been able to follow along on Wikipedia.
He also leans way too heavily into the “I am a real race fan because I hate the playoffs.” I have never found his analysis on the playoffs to be sufficient to support his conclusions, especially when he makes videos with inflammatory titles that say that NASCAR is chipping away at the “dam of legitimacy.”
Just my opinion.
The value equation is just not there for sedans. Pre-2005, an SUV was a gas hogging V8 aerodynamic box with wheels. The fuel economy benefits aren't worth it for many people anymore. Sedans don't suck, SUV's just got better and cheaper than they once were.
Mispeedway15
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Let’s not forget pickups used to be actual work vehicles. For any car with high end tech, you had to get the sedan. Now these trucks are absolutely loaded up. Also gas is pretty cheap, it’s at a similar level to where it was in 2005 by dollar! Think about that, the CPI is 65% higher than it was in 2005 and yet gas is about the same.
IMO also there is little reason for an ICE sedan anymore.
That depends a lot on where you live. Regardless, will it stay cheap for the five (six?) years it takes to pay for it?
Most of them are a couple of missed payments from disaster...but gas is cheap lol.
Revman
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Chevy no longer races a car in production, and you post about relevance? You sure are high maintenance.
MRM
Team Owner
The so-called war on cars is from the green energy people that want everything to be electric. Some of the CEO's of the car companies share that vision (GM is one). But with sales not good with electric vehicles, some of the companies are backing off their stance to be 100% electric. Since people that drive a car want something gas-powered with some umph, that's why the car was in their crosshairs. Remember, GM killed Pontiac because they were more performance oriented and because they sold more Buicks in China. Heck, even Dodge backed off the new Charger being a fully-electric car. At some point, they'll figure out people want gas-powered cars or at least a hybrid.
Appears to be a case of where you get your news from it appears.
Record EV sales lead GM, Ford to 8% increases in Q3 U.S. auto sales
- Ford said sales of all-electric vehicles increased by 30.2% during the period to a fresh quarterly record of more than 30,600 units.
- General Motors and Hyundai said EV sales more than doubled during the quarter.
- EV sales during the third quarter are expected to be a record, ahead of federal incentives of up to $7,500 ending in September.
- https://www.cnbc.com/2025/10/01/third-quarter-us-auto-sales.html
Hybrid/electric sales are rising faster then all electric.
HoneyBadger
Kelsey Mitchell fan account
These aren’t the people I’m talking about.
And people who have trucks as work vehicles and griped about gas prices didn’t bother me because their complaints were legit.
I got so tired of people who bought a Chevy Silverado 9500 XL Triple Diesel Dual Exhaust Earnhardt Edition complaining about gas while saying people who drove Toyotas weren’t real men.