2017: Clean Air Is NOT King... Speed Is King

LewTheShoe

Seeking Skill-based Meritocracy... More HP Less DF
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There have been many complaints here and elsewhere about the Cup races this year being spread out, not enough side by side racing, and saying this is because "clean air is king." I'm no aerodynamics expert, but I believe these complaints are completely wrong. The cars are more spread out as a by-product of putting the race back in the hands of the drivers and crew chiefs. IMO, the low downforce rules have been very effective in controlling the aero advantage held by the leader, and reducing the aero push that previously acted to prevent a faster car from passing.

The 2017 rules permit a *faster car* to pull up right behind the leading car, in the dirtiest of dirty air, without losing front traction and washing up the track. And then he passes, and pulls away... because he is faster. If he is slower, he falls back and the leader pulls away. Passing has never been easier, if you are the faster car... as proven at Atlanta, at Las Vegas, at Fontana. Speed is king, and it comes from a good car with a good set up and a good driver. (Passing remained very difficult at Phoenix... not due to aero IMO... Phoenix is always a hard place to pass due to the short straights and low banking.)

Racing is often closer under rules that create the "clean air is king" phenomena. When a slower car has the lead, due to pit stops or strategy or whatever reason, the faster cars stack up behind, unable to complete a pass. We are not seeing this aero effect in 2017, and that is why the cars are more spread out.

The cars are definitely harder to drive fast this year. Driver skill and set up skill matter more in 2017. One only needs to count the number of spins and wall-banging incidents among prominent drivers to see that. Its still early days, so everyone is working to improve performance. I'm strongly in favor of a high degree of difficulty, and deciding races on merit. But I wonder how many Nascar fans have an appetite for this style of racing?
 
Clean air is king. Has been for over a decade.
Drivers continue to complain about dirty air.
Yes and yes.

Any object, no matter it's shape, traveling through the air at race speeds leaves a turbulent wake. There's no way around that.

It looks like the reduction in downforce makes a balanced aero / chassis setup much more important than ever. I'd say the teams are more spread out because, as usual, some of them have engineered themselves an advantage in that area and because some drivers are handling the situation better than some others. All good, imo.
 
I think improvements have been made, a step in the right direction. But more still needs to be done.
 
Someone will figure out what the Ganassi bunch is doing before long then they’ll get out front first.

Rinse ‘n repeat.
 
Hold race speeds where they are / keep the cars on the ground.

I dont remember any cars coming off the ground at the non RP tracks . I also think momentum racing has it's own built in dangers. The need for less deceleration could actually drive up speeds at certain parts of the track as well.
I really think somebody in charge envisions pack racing as the remedy, with the flat out wide open 360° laps

The idea of plates at Indianapolis is a good example, different than the 2015 HP reduction, but both still a foolish pursuit, imo.
 
I dont remember any cars coming off the ground at the non RP tracks . I also think momentum racing has it's own built in dangers. The need for less deceleration could actually drive up speeds at certain parts of the track as well.
I really think somebody in charge envisions pack racing as the remedy, with the flat out wide open 360° laps

The idea of plates at Indianapolis is a good example, different than the 2015 HP reduction, but both still a foolish pursuit, imo.
They have in the past.

I think the engines should be free of the restrictions ... as they were before the rule change. More horsepower than you can use ...
 
Clean air is king. Has been for over a decade.
Clean air was definitely king right up through 2015, and also 2016 at single-groove tracks. But this year... not the case. We'll see what happens at repaved tracks like Texas and Kentucky, but so far there has been no aero-induced impediment to passing the leader.

Drivers continue to complain about dirty air.
Yeah, Truex crying a river of tears about why he didn't win at Fontana. He conveniently forgot to mention that Larson was faster (except one stint early in the race when the 42 lost the handle), and Larson's strategy was right while Truex's strategy was wrong.

It is the same as drivers whining for all these years about the 48's golden horseshoe. Funny how you never hear the drivers comment about another guy is faster than me, or braver than me, or does things in tight spaces than I can't do and won't even attempt.
 
This. Truex had an 8 second lead last week so he clearly had the fastest car but when he lost the lead in the pits he couldn't regain it.
Truex had the fastest car only in the second segment, when the 42 lost the handle. Early in the third stage, Larson passed Truex at set sail. Larson had the speed, Truex did not.

Then Truex had a bad pit stop near the end. With 11 to go, he restarted P8 and in four laps was up to P2, passing everyone except Larson, who was the faster car. That is why the 78 team threw a Hail Mary (stayed out on the next caution). They didn't have the speed to win on equal strategy.
 
Yes and yes.

Any object, no matter it's shape, traveling through the air at race speeds leaves a turbulent wake. There's no way around that.
Of course. But the less downforce you have in clean air, the less downforce you lose due to dirty (turbulent) air. And meanwhile, you also are shedding drag because turbulent air gives less wind resistance. So now in 2017, you still need to be the faster car in order to pass as always, but maybe 0.2 faster is enough while last year you needed 0.4 seconds, and in 2015 you needed more than that.

That is the principal of reducing downforce to facilitate passing. I believe it works, and what I observe on the track supports that.
 
Get Atlanta tire degradation and tons of horsepower, and wonderful things will happen.
It's a shame they can't make the same horsepower a top fuel engine has. There is more horsepower in 1 top fuel motor then the first 6 rows of a nascar race. But, they would have to change engines about every quarter mile.:D
 
Some of our elite posters were discussin’ ole Smoke soilin’ his linens t’other day. I’m given to believe that was due to illness ‘n I won’t speak in jest of his misfortune. There’s a plenty of ole Smokeisms to chuckle o’er ‘sides that.

Gotta hunch one the current elite mash a nitro motor their linens wouldn’t be sufferin’ from illness. No, no - but misfortune none-the-less.

Perhaps The Danica could drive one of the Force sisters’ cars - for fun.
 
Some of our elite posters were discussin’ ole Smoke soilin’ his linens t’other day. I’m given to believe that was due to illness ‘n I won’t speak in jest of his misfortune. There’s a plenty of ole Smokeisms to chuckle o’er ‘sides that.

Gotta hunch one the current elite mash a nitro motor their linens wouldn’t be sufferin’ from illness. No, no - but misfortune none-the-less.

Perhaps The Danica could drive one of the Force sisters’ cars - for fun.
Kurt Busch made a couple of hot runs a few years ago. I don't recall many details, but I'm pretty sure a change of underpants wasn't one of them.
 
The Ganassi bunch have the new aero package figured out because of the companies years of Indy car experience. Raise the cars, open the grill up, remove the splitter and under the rocker panel. That clear plexiglass roof valance. Open the right side window, do whatever it takes to bring back good side by side racing.
 
Thinkin' ole Kurt made more'n a couple 'hot runs.' The boy entered a race after doin' some trainin'. Got beat in the first round. By a girl.

The Danica hates to get beat by a girl.
 
Keep in mind, the cars are supposed to be making about 1500 lbs of downforce now with this new package, which is the same amount they were at the start of 2016 before teams clawed it back. So you'd think we would see a similar great race to last year, but no. Something didn't go as planned with this aero package.
 
They have in the past.

I think the engines should be free of the restrictions ... as they were before the rule change. More horsepower than you can use ...

so much this.

With the current package, I wonder what the speeds would be on SS without the plate I know Rusty went near 212 or so but that was not with the curr package. Would the "ground aero" keep the cars on the ground?
 
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so much this.

With the current package, I wonder what the speeds would be on SS without the plate I know Rusty went near 212 or so but that was not with the curr package. Would the "ground aero" keep the cars on the ground?
His average speed unrestricted @ Talldega was just over 216 with a top speed of 228 at the end of the backstretch. They said at the time that given a little time to tweak the package, they felt they'd hit about 235 mph. At the time, 216mph was 20-30 mph faster than the restricted car.

As far as taking flight today if they were unrestricted..... I think there's little doubt that they'd take air once they turned sideways or backwards.

There is no way in heck we are ever going to see them running unrestricted at those high speeds around those venues.
 
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