2022 Silly Season

I've already heard the 23 team waits for a add fuel and race TRD/Gibbs mobile. I think the new leadership at Nascar doesn't have a problem with a four car max with a little looking the other way when the money is right.
 
StandOnIt said:
I've already heard the 23 team waits for a add fuel and race TRD/Gibbs mobile.
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You've lost me here.

While I wait patiently for an explanation, I will ask a question. Why did this new team purchase their own Hawkeye unit?
 
aunty dive said:
LOL
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Let me know when you quit laughing how this isn't so...waiting patently

The first Nascar race car has been DELIVERED and they also have a box to put it in.

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The 23 doesn't seem like a 5th Gibbs car to me. I think the 23 is an independent team that has a deal to obtain hardware and technical assistance from Gibbs in exchange for money. The 23 is analogous to Barney Visser's 78 car IMO. The 23 is also analogous to SHR as a customer of HMS. Rick Hendrick's team was running 4 cars and supplying 4 more to SHR. But Hendrick was not operating as a 8-car team.

Visser's 77 car *was* a 5th Gibbs car IMO. Gibbs and TRD incentivized Visser to establish to 77 car as a place for Gibbs to park his young driver Erik Jones for a year, until Gibbs freed up space at the mothership.

Bob Leavine's 95 car *was* a 5th Gibbs car in 2020. Gibbs and TRD incentivized Leavine in a mutually-agreed takeover of Leavine Family Racing as a place to park Christopher Bell until Gibbs had room to bring him to the mothership.

Gibbs does not have a vested interest in Bubba Wallace, nor in the success of the 23 team except as a customer to pay their regular invoices. To me, that makes all the difference. Just my dos centavos.
 
LewTheShoe said:
The 23 doesn't seem like a 5th Gibbs car to me. I think the 23 is an independent team that has a deal to obtain hardware and technical assistance from Gibbs in exchange for money. The 23 is analogous to Barney Visser's 78 car IMO. The 23 is also analogous to SHR as a customer of HMS. Rick Hendrick's team was running 4 cars and supplying 4 more to SHR. But Hendrick was not operating as a 8-car team.

Visser's 77 car *was* a 5th Gibbs car IMO. Gibbs and TRD incentivized Visser to establish to 77 car as a place for Gibbs to park his young driver Erik Jones for a year, until Gibbs freed up space at the mothership.

Bob Leavine's 95 car *was* a 5th Gibbs car in 2020. Gibbs and TRD incentivized Leavine in a mutually-agreed takeover of Leavine Family Racing as a place to park Christopher Bell until Gibbs had room to bring him to the mothership.

Gibbs does not have a vested interest in Bubba Wallace, nor in the success of the 23 team except as a customer to pay their regular invoices. To me, that makes all the difference. Just my dos centavos.
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So far the only independence I see is a different address. Toyota has sold their profit maker to the team, less decals, and the salaries and fixed expenses are the team's responsibility. And like the other's they don't have a choice on who they hire for the key positions. They come from the mother ship. The comment I read said they were there at the shop and nothing was going on because the car wasn't there yet from Gibbs. Leavine ran his stuff and bought an occasional motor from Gibbs, but he had Gibbs employees he was paying for and they went back to Gibbs. Mike Wheeler Hamlin's X was C.Bell's crew chief. Guess what, Wheeler is Bubba's crew chief.
 
LewTheShoe said:
The 23 doesn't seem like a 5th Gibbs car to me. I think the 23 is an independent team that has a deal to obtain hardware and technical assistance from Gibbs in exchange for money. The 23 is analogous to Barney Visser's 78 car IMO. The 23 is also analogous to SHR as a customer of HMS. Rick Hendrick's team was running 4 cars and supplying 4 more to SHR. But Hendrick was not operating as a 8-car team.

Visser's 77 car *was* a 5th Gibbs car IMO. Gibbs and TRD incentivized Visser to establish to 77 car as a place for Gibbs to park his young driver Erik Jones for a year, until Gibbs freed up space at the mothership.

Bob Leavine's 95 car *was* a 5th Gibbs car in 2020. Gibbs and TRD incentivized Leavine in a mutually-agreed takeover of Leavine Family Racing as a place to park Christopher Bell until Gibbs had room to bring him to the mothership.

Gibbs does not have a vested interest in Bubba Wallace, nor in the success of the 23 team except as a customer to pay their regular invoices. To me, that makes all the difference. Just my dos centavos.
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Explained perfectly.

Thank you.
 
I remember in the way back machine when partners Stewart- Haas started up their team and they bought Hendrick frames I believe and motors for sure and people were saying that they were racing Hendrick cars. I guess in the current scheme of things you can have personnel, and a completely built car and voila your are a race team. It will be interesting if this is the future of the sport in the years to come. Rent a car.
 
StandOnIt said:
well then what was your motive for bringing it up? I am not the only one who is questioning if Nascar has changed the 4 car rule, or just what is the definiation of what is a 4 car team, what is an affiliate? No one to my knowledge is buying a ready made to race race car from another team. Bits and pieces maybe, but this car was built completely at Gibbs's race shop. That had to be OK'd by Toyota for Gibbs to do that, seems that it had to be OK'd by Nascar. Does this mean that more race teams can expand to 5 or more cars if the money is right? Just add decals and race. So you can make your B.S. snarky comments all you want, it just shows you can't grasp the questions this has raised. Where do you draw the line or is there no lines now.
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You are correct. You are not the only one counting beyond 4.

You are, however, the most vocal. Referencing my comments as BS and snarky is laughable coming from you.

Let’s change the subject. Who builds the Wood Brothers’ cars?
 
aunty dive said:
You are correct. You are not the only one counting beyond 4.

You are, however, the most vocal. Referencing my comments as BS and snarky is laughable coming from you.

Let’s change the subject. Who builds the Wood Brothers’ cars?
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that is another good example, similar but that is an independent racing team doing it, not a closely affiliated factory effort and that is called a Penske team. I'm saying the same thing about the 23
 
LewTheShoe said:
The 23 doesn't seem like a 5th Gibbs car to me. I think the 23 is an independent team that has a deal to obtain hardware and technical assistance from Gibbs in exchange for money. The 23 is analogous to Barney Visser's 78 car IMO. The 23 is also analogous to SHR as a customer of HMS. Rick Hendrick's team was running 4 cars and supplying 4 more to SHR. But Hendrick was not operating as a 8-car team.
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Right!, I don't see this being any different from the above examples you gave. Lets add LFR getting the cars from JGR last year as well.
 
StandOnIt said:
that is another good example, similar but that is an independent racing team doing it, not a closely affiliated factory effort and that is called a Penske team. I'm saying the same thing about the 23
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I think FOMOCO is pretty invested in the success or failure of the iconic number 21.

For example, the Wood Bros. driver has access to Ford’s race simulator.
 
aunty dive said:
You a 5 team guy too, Charlie?
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I haven’t decided but this looks like more involvement than Gibbs had with the #77, certainly more than the #78. Either way, it’s still Toyota calling most of the shots for both Gibbs and 23XI.

I’d favor a hard cap of three charters with no wiggle room, but let an owner field as many total teams as he wants.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I haven’t decided but this looks like more involvement than Gibbs had with the #77, certainly more than the #78. Either way, it’s still Toyota calling most of the shots for both Gibbs and 23XI.
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said well. I mean neither Hamlin or Jordan have any experience with owning a racing team. I am not saying it is a bad thing, but is that line of four cars being blurred? I mean these guys are a completely set up franchise IMO, so is that the way things are going? You got the money we have the rest. Will it bring on a franchise manufacturing war in the future? I mean I don't think many of the NFL's franchise owners were star quarterbacks in a past life. It just looks like this bunch is pushing the line even farther to the edge.
 
StandOnIt said:
said well. I mean neither Hamlin or Jordan have any experience with owning a racing team. I am not saying it is a bad thing, but is that line of four cars being blurred? I mean these guys are a completely set up franchise IMO, so is that the way things are going? You got the money we have the rest. Will it bring on a franchise manufacturing war in the future? I mean I don't think many of the NFL's franchise owners were star quarterbacks in a past life. It just looks like this bunch is pushing the line even farther to the edge.
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Where does your satisfaction come as an owner when you're not making decisions or influencing performance, just writing rental checks?

Is Jordan a 'car guy'? If so, what's the appeal of operation, which looks to be basically 'hands off'? If he's not a gearhead, why spend the money? Letterman is the closest comparison I can think of, but I'm pretty sure he knew a lot about motorsports before he left TV.

I just keep remembering Marino, Hall of Fame, et. al. Is Gibbs the only owner to come from another sport and last more than a few years? Being associated with JGR doesn't look like a guarantee of longevity, much less success.
 
Jordan is a motor sports enthusiast. At one point, he owned an unsuccessful motorcycle race team.

We have a new team backed by a new ownership group. I see no need to start passing judgement on them, their motives or their aspirations. I’m glad they’re here. You can be quite certain they’ll outperform Ware, Spire, Starcom et al.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Where does your satisfaction come as an owner when you're not making decisions or influencing performance, just writing rental checks?

Is Jordan a 'car guy'? If so, what's the appeal of operation, which looks to be basically 'hands off'? If he's not a gearhead, why spend the money? Letterman is the closest comparison I can think of, but I'm pretty sure he knew a lot about motorsports before he left TV.

I just keep remembering Marino, Hall of Fame, et. al. Is Gibbs the only owner to come from another sport and last more than a few years? Being associated with JGR doesn't look like a guarantee of longevity, much less success.
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Yeah Newman Haas was another partnership, but again they were calling the shots like Rahal-Letterman racing. I wonder how involved Hamlin is going to be. He's racing full time for his competitor against his company? Whatever, it will be interesting this season with that bunch
 
2 Sweet said:
So right now, the biggest move we know about is Cindric to the 21, correct? I'm curious to see where that leaves Dibenedetto.

Also curious to see what happens to the 37 team.
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I'm also definitely interested in what happens with DiBenedetto for 2022.

Also, Brad Keselowski is in a contract year, and he's "my driver" so I'll be watching that situation. Last year, Brad and Team Penske went through a difficult negotiation, and in the end Brad and Roger Penske decided to kick the can down the road by agreeing to a one-year extension. That bought a little time, but soon that candle will be getting short again.

It's pure speculation on my part, but I'm not sure I fully trust Tim Cindric to be fair with Brad in this deal. I'm sure Tim is very interested in his son's career. And I worry that RP himself may be stretched thin on the Nascar side while he works to keep IndyCar afloat after being decimated by coronavirus. IndyCar is far more dependent on ticket sales than Nascar... due to Nascar's sweet pot of TV money.
 
2 Sweet said:
So right now, the biggest move we know about is Cindric to the 21, correct? I'm curious to see where that leaves Dibenedetto.

Also curious to see what happens to the 37 team.
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Matty D. has enough advance notice this time to start looking for a new ride and I doubt he will be unemployed.
 
LewTheShoe said:
I'm also definitely interested in what happens with DiBenedetto for 2022.

Also, Brad Keselowski is in a contract year, and he's "my driver" so I'll be watching that situation. Last year, Brad and Team Penske went through a difficult negotiation, and in the end Brad and Roger Penske decided to kick the can down the road by agreeing to a one-year extension. That bought a little time, but soon that candle will be getting short again.

It's pure speculation on my part, but I'm not sure I fully trust Tim Cindric to be fair with Brad in this deal. I'm sure Tim is very interested in his son's career. And I worry that RP himself may be stretched thin on the Nascar side while he works to keep IndyCar afloat after being decimated by coronavirus. IndyCar is far more dependent on ticket sales than Nascar... due to Nascar's sweet pot of TV money.
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Brad's salary is pretty high and I think that is the sticking point for a new contract. I am pretty sure Roger gave him some time to think on it and if Brad doesn't want a cut in pay then he will have to find another team willing to pay that. I think he has to take a cut just like the other drivers. I am surprised JGR is paying his 2 drivers so much. I suppose the sponsors are the ones footing that bill.
 
MAGICMILER said:
On the last lap , with Bubba in 1st with Denny in second and closing fast on the back stretch, I wonder if Denny would dump Bubba for the win, or let Bubba win.... Just a random thought...
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Voluntarily letting someone else win is a concept that comes around on fan message boards from time to time. On real race tracks with real racers behind the wheel, it's not a concept that exists.

That is all.
 
2 Sweet said:
So right now, the biggest move we know about is Cindric to the 21, correct? I'm curious to see where that leaves Dibenedetto.

Also curious to see what happens to the 37 team.
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All your answers will be found here....once our preliminary bouts and main event takes place.
 
LewTheShoe said:
I'm also definitely interested in what happens with DiBenedetto for 2022.

Also, Brad Keselowski is in a contract year, and he's "my driver" so I'll be watching that situation. Last year, Brad and Team Penske went through a difficult negotiation, and in the end Brad and Roger Penske decided to kick the can down the road by agreeing to a one-year extension. That bought a little time, but soon that candle will be getting short again.

It's pure speculation on my part, but I'm not sure I fully trust Tim Cindric to be fair with Brad in this deal. I'm sure Tim is very interested in his son's career. And I worry that RP himself may be stretched thin on the Nascar side while he works to keep IndyCar afloat after being decimated by coronavirus. IndyCar is far more dependent on ticket sales than Nascar... due to Nascar's sweet pot of TV money.
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What rides are going to be open that are better than where Brad is now?
 
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