23XI statement on not signing Charter agreement

I have rooted for Chevys all my life, mostly out of habit. But I am just about ready to become a Hamlin fan, the fun nasty bad guy that everybody hates.
It is just fun watching all the hate, almost makes me laugh out loud.
 
Greg said:
I have rooted for Chevys all my life, mostly out of habit. But I am just about ready to become a Hamlin fan, the fun nasty bad guy that everybody hates.
It is just fun watching all the hate, almost makes me laugh out loud.
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Nasty?

Nah. Just obnoxious.
 
Best part of this will be seeing the teams save millions of dollars only to spend it on R&D and more expensive parts anyway.

Then we'll see who really has the "skill and talent" around the garage 🤣
 
aunty dive said:
Smackdown! Again!

Time for NASCAR to set egos aside, swallow some pride and invite the people who put on the show back to the table.
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I'd like to believe NASCAR might do that now, but I'm not optimistic about it. And the reason is that the judge's "smackdown" concerns only the preliminary injunction skirmish, not the actual merits of the antitrust case.

Jim France wants to punish 23XI and FRM for having the audacity to challenge the Supreme Ruler Of The Stock Car Universe with a lawsuit. France wants to make an example of these upstarts... a public flogging (financially) to make sure no other team owners consider their options anytime soon. Make 'em compete as open teams, costing over $10 million per car in revenue during 2025. And kiss those SHR charters good-bye, because NASCAR won't approve their sale to 23XI and FRM.

On the other side... 23XI and FRM ask that the status quo business conditions be extended while the legal challenge winds its way through court. And the judge has agreed with this, strongly and completely... indeed a "smackdown" to prevent NASCAR's desired punishment of the wayward children of 23XI and FRM.

However, that's just the temporary business conditions during the legal process. The merits of the case are yet to be presented, argued, and decided by a jury of ordinary North Carolina citizens. Persuading the judge to delay the punishment until the legal questions are answered is one thing, but ultimately prevailing on those legal issues is another thing entirely. Unless NASCAR believes they will lose the jury verdict, I expect they will not be amenable to reopening negotiations toward genuine compromise to reach a settlement.

Regarding the merits of the case, the plaintiffs have two early rulings in their favor... (1) The judge has apparently decided that the relevant market is "elite stock car racing" rather than something much broader such as "all motorsports" or even "all professional sports and entertainment," making it much easier to prove in court that a monopoly exists. (2) The judge believes that NASCAR's infamous Section 10.3 antitrust release is likely a violation of the law, in and of itself. Will these two rulings be enough to convince the France family to abandon their legal defense and negotiate a settlement? I am doubtful.

I know several people here are predicting settlement before Daytona 500, settlement by All Star weekend, etc. They might be right, and I hope they are, but my prediction is settlement comes much nearer the December trial date.
 
LewTheShoe said:
I know several people here are predicting settlement before Daytona 500, settlement by All Star weekend, etc. They might be right, and I hope they are, but my prediction is settlement comes much nearer the December trial date.
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None of us making that prediction are making it because we think NASCAR doesn't want to win and hurt those teams. It's that now we're entering a period where in order to make that trial date, the judge will make both parties enter discovery, which the judge themselves will be managing. That would mean that NASCAR has to hand over it's accounting as to what it really makes and what it really spends to 23XI and FRM. That's not going to be a choice for NASCAR. That is going to be mandated. Now, it's true of the teams too, but I very much doubt the teams have anywhere near the same level of concern for this as the privately held multibillion dollar organization infamous for being a black box.

When those documents get turned over, if any of them are used in the trial, they also become public record. That means EVERY team can see them. EVERY sanctioning body can see them. EVERY track owner can see them. You think NASCAR is so clean in their operations that there's no potential blowback from that? Maybe we live in strange times and there's no possible consequences for them. There's a whole lot of billionaires though that info could piss off. We don't even know what sorts of internal memos or emails or other documentation there might be.
 
StandOnIt said:
Court of appeals? So much for this will be over soon right?
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Not that anyone would, but technically if they lose and lose their charter etc later on, couldn’t someone who, say, misses the Daytona 500, for example, claim damages for not having another open spot available had 23 and FRM also had to qualify their way in?

That’s a take on something I’ve pondered a bit about whether Nascar can claim irreparable harm. They can’t go back and redo the qualifying after this is settled.
 
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