#77 loses factory support from Ford

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RobbyG Fan

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From Nascar.com:

Dodge this: Ford shows Jasper team the door
From Press Release
October 1, 2003
12:40 PM EDT (1640 GMT)
DEARBORN, Mich. -- Ford Racing Technology has dissolved its formal association with Jasper Motorsports in NASCAR's Winston Cup Series.

Jasper Motorsports, which was under contract to field the No. 77 Jasper Engines Ford Taurus for the entire 2003 NASCAR Winston Cup Series season, violated a fundamental provision in its agreement with Ford Motor Company by competing in last Sunday's EA Sports 500 at Talladega Superspeedway in a Dodge.

Over the weekend, Ford informed the team that it was in breach of contract. On Tuesday, the automaker declared the contract null and void and informed the team that it would repossess all existing Ford assets and discontinue further operational support.

"What happened at Talladega was unacceptable," said Greg Specht, manager of Ford Racing Operations. "To be a Ford team, you have to run a Ford."
 
I wondered about that. They should have known that would happen.
 
I would believe that the #77 car will switch over to Dodge, since their affiliates Penske Racing also field Dodges.
 
For a team on a limited budget simply switching to another brand is easier said than done.

I would guess that they have only one Dodge and that was a plate track car. The body would pretty much be bad bad bad at any other track.

It also means that any cars they had prepped for upcoming races would be useless.

Rebodying the cars is very expensive so I kinda look for them to stay with Fords for the next few weeks unless.....Dodge is gonna foot the bill for Penske to supply them a car or two for the downforce tracks. Not real sure how interested Dodge is in another team though they do have somewhat of void from the Davis deal.
 
The break down of car brands in last weeks race was interesting really:

Dodge:16
Chevy:15
Ford:9----including Jason Jarrett
Pontiac:3

Ford needs to stop the loss of teams...Jack Roush can't do it all.Even though the 'great ford hope' in the last part of the season may well be in a Yates Ford...Sadler is going to win this season.Write it down. :)
 
Here are some very interesting stats to accompany the stats that 97forever provided above:


# of Chevy wins this season so far: 14

Leading the way for Chevy in wins:
Jimmie Johnson = 3 wins
Robby Gordon = 2 wins
Michael Waltrip = 2 wins


# of Ford wins this season so far: 7

Leading the way for Ford in wins:
Kurt Busch = 4 wins


# of Dodge wins this season so far: 7

Leading the way for Dodge in wins:
Ryan Newman = 7 wins


# of Pontiac wins this season so far: 1

Leading the way for Pontiac in wins:
Ricky Craven = 1 win
 
Originally posted by RobbyG Fan@Oct 1 2003, 02:08 PM
Here are some very interesting stats to accompany the stats that 97forever provided above:


# of Chevy wins this season so far: 14

Leading the way for Chevy in wins:
Jimmie Johnson = 3 wins
Robby Gordon = 2 wins
Michael Waltrip = 2 wins


# of Ford wins this season so far: 7

Leading the way for Ford in wins:
Kurt Busch = 4 wins


# of Dodge wins this season so far: 7

Leading the way for Dodge in wins:
Ryan Newman = 7 wins


# of Pontiac wins this season so far: 1

Leading the way for Pontiac in wins:
Ricky Craven = 1 win
Click to expand...
Interesting indeed RobbyG Fan.

The 'invisible' topic of conversation this season seems to be 'parity'.I thought this was a real buzz word the last few seasons.This season however,with only 7 Ford wins and only one Dodge or Pontiac driver with a victory,you would think something would have been said.But in every racing website or publication I check:---------------ZILCH.Not a word.

Something about that bothers me a little.I remember several years back--early nineties--when Ford went on a true dominating streak winning the first ten or twelve straight races or so,the screams from the Chevrolet camp were louder than thunder.This isnt speculation,rather pure fact.

Parity---(at the risk of slipping into my once predominantly conspiratorial mindset)---seems to apply only when a certain brand can't keep pace without multiple concessions from the sanctioning body.That brand ,IMO,has a big red Bowtie on front.

(Now the responses to this one should be interesting to read! ;) )

But to any who argue the opposite p.o.v,I would ask you show me exactly what the difference is.Ford wins,Chevy and the sanctioning body both scream...Chevy has a cake walk and a church mouse makes more noise....This is the season of Invisible Parity.
 
97forever,

I do agree with you in the fact that the Ford camp has been very very quiet this season.


Although I doubt all the makes are completely equal, I think it has to do more with the fact of who is driving for each make. Chevy has their assets spread out nicely, with four championship caliber teams with Chevy backing. It seems that Ford has its "peas in one pot" so to speak with Roush being the flagship Ford team. RYR has sure fallen behind, aside from that you cant really name another premier Ford team. Pontiac, well they only have what, like 4 teams? Not much worth discussing. Newman is Dodge's saving grace. Penske is obviously the flagship team for Dodge, but besides Newman (and maybe Wallace) no other driver is performing, and most all Dodge team are mired back in the 20's in the standings.
 
Originally posted by 97forever@Oct 1 2003, 02:23 PM


Parity---(at the risk of slipping into my once predominantly conspiratorial mindset)---seems to apply only when a certain brand can't keep pace without multiple concessions from the sanctioning body.That brand ,IMO,has a big red Bowtie on front.

(Now the responses to this one should be interesting to read! ;) )
Click to expand...
can you read this?
angry-smiley-048.gif
LOL :XXROFL:
 
Originally posted by bowtie+Oct 1 2003, 03:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (bowtie @ Oct 1 2003, 03:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--97forever@Oct 1 2003, 02:23 PM


Parity---(at the risk of slipping into my once predominantly&nbsp; conspiratorial mindset)---seems to apply only when a certain brand can't keep pace without multiple concessions from the sanctioning body.That brand ,IMO,has a big red Bowtie on front.

(Now the responses to this one should be interesting to read! ;) )
Click to expand...
can you read this?
angry-smiley-048.gif
LOL :XXROFL: [/b][/quote]
LOL, for some reason I knew that was coming. :lol:
 
Looks like Dodge really owes it to Penske Racing and Ryan Newman! Maybe Jasper racing can buy some of those really used cars from Ryan like the one he used in the Daytona 500 :D
 
When the new ford comes out next year & the roush & yates teams are dominating , we'll have to see if the cries ring out again from the chevy camp . I figure the penske teams will all be sporting a big toyota on the hood in a few years, too.
 
Originally posted by CypressTrout@Oct 1 2003, 03:51 PM
When the new ford comes out next year & the roush & yates teams are dominating , we'll have to see if the cries ring out again from the chevy camp . I figure the penske teams will all be sporting a big toyota on the hood in a few years, too.
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I very likely think you may be right on both counts C-Trout.Almost without doubt the '04' Taurus is going to be an awesome car,which I think contributes a little to the silence of the Ford teams this year.They must be pretty sure they will gain back anything lost(this year) with next years car.

And Penske is Toyota bound just as sure as hell is hot.
 
You guys seem to be forgetting that when the Monte Carlo came out a few years back that GM had to basically tear the car down and rebuild it because it was to superior, and then when FoMoCo introduced the Taurus Nascar accepted it, a four door car no less, with no concessions and then had to back them down to match the Chevys. So GM did their homework and brought out the new nose and decklid design and came back with a stronger car. Now Ford has done the same thing, also coming out with a superior car, and then it all goes around again.
 
Originally posted by bowtie@Oct 1 2003, 04:07 PM
You guys seem to be forgetting that when the Monte Carlo came out a few years back that GM had to basically tear the car down and rebuild it because it was to superior, and then when FoMoCo introduced the Taurus Nascar accepted it, a four door car no less, with no concessions and then had to back them down to match the Chevys. So GM did their homework and brought out the new nose and decklid design and came back with a stronger car. Now Ford has done the same thing, also coming out with a superior car, and then it all goes around again.
Click to expand...
Oh for the love of God, Bow old buddy!I see only the Kremlin had a PR machine like GM must have! :p

A few points regarding this issue.The Monte Carslow is Chevy's answer to the the Oval putting the Lemon-a(often mispronounced 'Lumina')out to pasture!The most valid part of your post was almost slipped thru:'then had to back them down to match the Chevy's'....EXACTLY!

Tear the Monte down so that the Taurus could compete??Chevy had to rebuild the damned thing in order to make it competitive with the Taurus package...with both street and track aero numbers highly superior to the Chevrolet.Almost the entire rules scramble since the introduction of the Taurus was to 'dumb down' the Taurus to the level of the Chevy.I.E,slow it down aero-wise until Chevy could finally compete.Which has finally been achieved this year it seems.Chevy has some great teams and engine packages,but Ford took the ball and ran with the MODERN(stress modern) era aero packages.Rember the Chevrolet shoeboxecarlo vs the Aero t-bird of the early eighties?Hell if not for Ford Chevy would still likely be trying to push air rather than slice it...

And the Chevy camp seems to forget this:The glass back Monte Carlo...designed on the spur of the moment because Ford caught Chevy asleep at the wheel back in the mid-eighties.While the Bowtie guys like to point out the 4-doors on the Taurus,this is complety overlooked!

Dont misunderstand,I give the French-derived Chevrolet credit in some things.That Vega( :p )was a stroke of genius,for instance,but Aero speaking Ford can not only compete but out-engineer the General.A very close look at the entire 'aero-revolution' will reveal this clearly.

Simply stated the 2003 Monte Carlo is the 1985 Ford Thunderbird!

(Man..it's good to get back to normal,eh Bow? :XXROFL:)
 
7 fords in the top ten last year
7 chevys in the top ten right now

thats parity
 
I'm talking about when they put the "Lemona" out to pasture. Hendricks and RCR built the Monte Carlo's for Nascar while Ford was still running the "Underbird" and GM had to put some corners on that thing so the Fords could keep up.

While reading your post I see that You are bragging on the Ford product aero-wise and engine wise. But in your earlier post you are trying to tell me that Chevy has a big advantage, now what's it gonna be, you can only stand on one side of the fence.

As far as the 2003 Monte Carlo being the 1985 Thunderbird????? Did you get dropped on your head as a small child?

(man, thsi is fun!!!) :lol:
 
Yes it is...and yes I did and that floor was hard!
Point one:Absolutely correct.The Chevy camp HAD to introduce something to keep up with the aging T-bird package.The Monte was the answer.BUT look back a few years earlier...why was the Monte pulled from WC in the first place?Because on equal amount of time in WC---the Chevrolet always suffers.Again,the Ford ran a Chevy out of competition and Chevy played catch up---not the other way around,man!First Ford kicks the Monte's ass with the T-bird.Chevy introduces the Lumina.Another ass kicking!FINALLY---at the end of the t-birds product life,the General introduces the new Monte....which can compete with the old 'Birds,but NOT with the new Taurus when it is introduced!So which came first,the chicken or the egg?
Point two:
And what I am trying to say is that the Chevy camp has finally,aero speaking again, equalled or surpassed the ORIGINAL Taurus platform.A lot of whining(c'mon,admit those guys whine a lot)and a few Chevy-specific concessions led to the current state of NON-parity.In other words,the chevy got better.Ford was locked in place.

(And another note before some stat happy member points out titles or wins by chevy.Let me make it clear I am talking about the concessions based on aero numbers of car design...not how many Elliott won vs. Earnhardt in 87 for instance.)
 
And somebody has been practicing their debating skills......you didnt used to be this good in the old days! :cheers: :lol: :lol:
 
Originally posted by 97forever@Oct 1 2003, 05:05 PM
And somebody has been practicing their debating skills......you didnt used to be this good in the old days! :cheers: :lol: :lol:
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Well, lets start here, I have been here 1 1/2 years and I have payed attention to the best. There are some guys on here, including you, that I really don't want to tangle with. Now, thats the only compliment you get. :lol: ^_^
 
Alright, to the topic at hand, you are still talking out of both sides of your..........uh......mouth. So whats it going to be, are the Fords at a disadvantage as previously stated by 97forever?

The 'invisible' topic of conversation this season seems to be 'parity'.I thought this was a real buzz word the last few seasons.This season however,with only 7 Ford wins and only one Dodge or Pontiac driver with a victory,you would think something would have been said.But in every racing website or publication I check:---------------ZILCH.Not a word.

or

Is the Taurus a superior racing machine as previously stated by 97forever?

Tear the Monte down so that the Taurus could compete??Chevy had to rebuild the damned thing in order to make it competitive with the Taurus package...with both street and track aero numbers highly superior to the Chevrolet.Almost the entire rules scramble since the introduction of the Taurus was to 'dumb down' the Taurus to the level of the Chevy.I.E,slow it down aero-wise until Chevy could finally compete.Which has finally been achieved this year it seems.Chevy has some great teams and engine packages,but Ford took the ball and ran with the MODERN(stress modern) era aero packages.Rember the Chevrolet shoeboxecarlo vs the Aero t-bird of the early eighties?Hell if not for Ford Chevy would still likely be trying to push air rather than slice it...

Now, I know you better than this and you don't normally talk in circles so straighten this one out so I can see who you're siding with and we will finish this friendly debate. ;) :D B)
 
Not loosing much. In the long run they will be better off.
 
Wonder if this will affect the performance at Jasper Motorsports. :mellow:
 
Bow:

Very clever usage of the old Paul/Fergy trick of quote and confuse buddy!

Just a damn shame it didnt work. :p

I think I made it fairly clear----at least to MOST readers----that I was refering to two seperate points in time.

Time 1:When Ford introduced both the Aero-TBIRD and a decade and a half later when the Taurus was introduced.Both aerodynamically superior cars to the Chevrolet couterparts.This can almost not even be argued. Keep in mind of speaking of the aero package specifically.And aerodynamics being about the single most important element of the modern day stock car racer.Break out your models of an 85 Monte Carlo vs. a T-Bird of the same year and compare the aero stats for both.Simply no comparision.Same with the Taurus when introduced.Thus point of time 1 (left side of my mouth :eek: ) has the Ford as a superior aerodynamic racing machine.

Time 2:(aka other side of my mouth)deals specifically with the CURRENT season.The '97 based Ford package has finally been matched by the new Chevy apparently.Other factors,of course, contribute to this banner year for Chevy(reduced ford teams,etc)but none as heavily as the much dumbed down and chopped current model race Taurus.

Face it---and be damned honest,old buddy,'PARITY' in Nascar lingo means this:Chop the Fords until the Chevy can compete.IF Ford dominates in the wind tunnel,code words like 'common template', 1/4 inch on/off this or that spoiler,etc. start to be heard.Look at the mish-mash of rule changes since the introduction of the Taurus...

Maybe I made to seperate points in my above posts---but they applied to two distinct points in the Ford/Chevy aero war----and both directly relating to each other:Before the Chevy guys screaming for PARITY and after Chevy screaming for parity.

So both sides of my mouth are pretty much saying this:When Ford has a better design,Chevy screams----and NASCAR makes damned sure the superior racing machine(Ford) is reduced to what you see THIS year.Ha!Checkmate baby!!


Pretty good save huh? :p :lol:
 
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