A great humanitarian.

D

DE Wrangler 2

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According to one Senator of the United States of America.


Friday, December 20, 2002 - 02:41 p.m. Pacific



Sen. Murray asks students to ponder bin Laden’s popularity


The Associated Press






VANCOUVER, Wash. — Why is terrorist leader Osama bin Laden so popular in some parts of the world?
Perhaps, said Sen. Patty Murray, it’s because he and his supporters have spent years building goodwill in poor nations by helping pay for schools, roads and day-care facilities.

At an appearance before a high school honors class, Murray, D-Wash., offered what her spokesman called an intentionally provocative challenge for students to ponder.

"We’ve got to ask, why is this man (bin Laden) so popular around the world?" Murray asked during an appearance Wednesday at Columbia River High School. "Why are people so supportive of him in many countries that are riddled with poverty?"

The answers may be uncomfortable, but are important for Americans to ponder — particularly students, Murray said.

"He’s been out in these countries for decades, building schools, building roads, building infrastructure, building day-care facilities, building health-care facilities, and the people are extremely grateful. We haven’t done that," Murray said.

"How would they look at us today if we had been there helping them with some of that rather than just being the people who are going to bomb in Iraq and go to Afghanistan?"

Chris Vance, chairman of the Washington state Republican Party, called Murray’s comments offensive.

"It is absolutely outrageous and despicable to imply that the American government should learn a lesson from the madman who murdered thousands of American citizens," Vance said. "I know Senator Murray has a habit of sticking her foot in her mouth, but this goes way beyond a simple gaffe."

Murray’s comments "sent the message to these students that the United States somehow deserved or brought on the September 11 terrorist attacks," Vance said. "I think all decent people can agree that we most certainly did not, that this was an unprovoked attack of terrorism."

Vance called on Murray to retract her comments and apologize.

An expert on terrorism, who co-wrote a book profiling bin Laden and al-Qaida, said Murray’s comments, published yesterday in The Columbian newspaper, were mostly on the mark.

"That’s kind of a generalization, but mostly accurate," Michael Swetnam, chairman of the Potomac Institute for Policy Studies in Arlington, Va., said yesterday.

Since about 1988, bin Laden, believed to be the mastermind behind the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States, has been on a mission to build schools, roads and even homes for widows of those killed in the fight against the Soviets in Afghanistan, Swetnam said.

There is even a rumor that bin Laden helped build an Afghani orphanage, although Swetnam said he has been unable to confirm that.

"Mostly he did underwrite — and so did many Arab charities — several fundamentalist Muslim schools throughout Afghanistan and Pakistan that teach a very, very, fundamentalist, right-wing version of Islam that preaches hatred for the West," Swetnam said.

Bin Laden’s version of Islam tells Muslims that "people in the West are trying to attack your religion (and) oppress you, and the only way to fight that is to rise up against the United States and its crusader buddies, Israel and Europe," Swetnam said.

Murray, in her remarks to students, said she doesn’t know where she comes down on the question of whether to try to counter bin Laden. Building infrastructure in Third World countries would "cost a lot of money, and we have schools here and health care facilities here that are really hurting," Murray said.

"War is expensive, too," she told the students. "Your generation ought to be thinking about whether we should be better neighbors out in other countries so that they have a different vision of us. It is a debate I think we ought to have."

Murray, the state’s senior senator, supported sending U.S. troops to Afghanistan to fight the Taliban and al-Qaida. But she was among 23 senators who voted against a resolution authorizing President Bush to use military force in confronting Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein. The state’s junior senator, Democrat Maria Cantwell, voted for the resolution.

Copyright © 2002 The Seattle Times Company
 
I can see both side of this. It's like when we were chatting about Jesse Jackson and what he's done, one of our own here backed him up because he had come to town and stood up for his father. Our country does good deeds for many other countries, but most do not see it. We give to the governments and they do with the monies what they see fit. Many times, the money is used for defense and other times, the governments squander the money and their people don't get anything from it.
 
How's come they aren't calling for her resignation?
 
4X.......she did nothing to be called on. She hasn't stated anything that wasn't true.

Her choice of audience is what I have a problem with though.
 
Bingo Paul!!


Anyone want to bet the governments of the countries that Bin Laden did this "humanitarian" work for dared not use every penny he gave for exactly what Bin Laden gave it for? This country cannot (nor should) operate that way. I wonder if Senator Murray pointed that out to these students she spoke to?
 
Not too long ago there was a convention of somesort in Africa having to do with aids. It was attended by heads of state from numerous countries. I don't recall exactly what it was called...wasn't a convention exactly but that's what I'm using for lack of a better term because at this hour I can't think of the word I'm looking for. Anyway, there were protesters there booing our american represenative. The protesters claimed that we weren't giving enough money to help Africa and it's aids epidemic. The truth is that the united states gives more money to Africa than any other country in the world for aids. The protesters said that we could afford to give more. Regardless of what we do, it will never be enough. Plain & simple. We ship billions of tons of food to other countries that are starving...we send medical supplies, missionaries, school supplies....we even gave Afghanistan food BEFORE we started our retaliation for 9/11 and that wasn't good enough either. Maybe Sen. Murray would be happy if we just gave every ounce of resources and finances we have to other countries and totally forget about our own. IMO we help out other countries too much.....every city has homeless hungry children on it's streets, but we can't supply our food banks with the food to feed them. Yet we can send tons & tons of food to other countries.... Am I the only one that see's something wrong with that ?
 
Although Bin Laden does do things of value in support of countries less prosperous than many oil producing nations, but not excluding them, keep in mind there is an agenda.

The Senator is right in her analysis but she left out a few things.

The Taliban repression of women, domination of civil rights wherein it is believed outside influence will corrupt, and the absolute fact the young students being educated in the schools reportedly funded through Al Quida or Bin Laden monies, teach the youthful and impressionable minds to hate Americans. Ultimate power is the true reason Bin Laden and his followers act in the way they do. They use religion in the name of Allah to excuse acts of terror.

We are despised because we have so much and try to manage the affairs of the world. Recent polls in the U.K. have indicated our strongest allies in war and peace harbor a less than kindly attitude toward America.

Maybe the United States would be better served if it stopped the generousity to others, said to he!! with the starving and those in need of medical attention of the countries who are our benefactors. Then, and maybe only then, would people realize what this country has done for humanitarian effort outside our borders.

Maybe an answer, as suggested by someone else, is to stop the gravy train chugging within foreign borders and place those monies into the populace of this country for medical, food, health care for the elderly and those who can ill afford it. Promote day care centers for single families so something productive can be accomplished. Yes it is sort of like a give away and somewhat liberal, but since we give it away anyway, why not give it right here at home ??

Of course the backlash from the countries that are no longer the recipients of our wealth will now hate us because we stopped giving. They hate us for giving it to them because we are wealthy and they will hate us for taking it away because they will feel they deserve it.

Remember, America creates most of the problems that exist outside its' borders. This is the country who put Sadam Hussein in power. And the same country who put Noriega in power. With those two deviates as poster children for foreign policy, no wonder we suck at it and people hate us!!
 
Whizzer.........so it's all our fault? Bin Ladin has an agenda but gets praise anyway. I guess you can say we have an agenda too but, at least, our agenda doesn't enclude killing and terrorizing.........and we get hatred. Guess the answer is putting up a giant wall around this country gathering up all our defenses and flipping the rest of the world off. Did you vote for Pat Buchanan last election?:)
 
The truth is that the united states gives more money to Africa than any other country in the world for aids. The protesters said that we could afford to give more. Regardless of what we do, it will never be enough. Plain & simple. We ship billions of tons of food to other countries that are starving...we send medical supplies, missionaries, school supplies....we even gave Afghanistan food BEFORE we started our retaliation for 9/11 and that wasn't good enough either. Maybe Sen. Murray would be happy if we just gave every ounce of resources and finances we have to other countries and totally forget about our own. IMO we help out other countries too much.....every city has homeless hungry children on it's streets, but we can't supply our food banks with the food to feed them. Yet we can send tons & tons of food to other countries.... Am I the only one that see's something wrong with that ?


I agree with penskigirl 100% on this..........what would happen if we all of a sudden needed help someday? would they be so free to help us out...?
we have lots of problems over here that need to be dealt with and it doesn't......I could go on and on about this subject, it gets me mad sometimes, sure it is ok to help out, but I think it is overdone.....my opinion........
 
DE Wrangler 2, I think you missed the point about Bin Laden. There was little praise of Bin Laden other than to make the point Bin Laden provides for the less fortunate to support his cause.

Are all the surrounding problems our fault?? NO !! But neither was it indicated as such.

Unfortunately history proves our agenda does advocate killing when our elected leaders feel it is beneficial to promote democracy. Note the two examples offered previously referencing our foreign policies. The U.S. might not have pulled the trigger but we did supply financial aid, the weapons, ammunition, training and point the guns in the right direction.

Please keep in mind many of our international problems come from our interference in countries we could let solve thier own disputes. That is one reason so many people here feel we should get out of the U.N.

Case in point being Kuwait. President George H.W.Bush forced the issue with the U.N. and American and allied troops went into Kuwait. We put United States military personel in the battlefield and saved the Kuwaiti's bloody arses. Today they spit on us and murder U.S. troops on the street of the very same country we saved from invasion by Iraq primarily because of American oil interests in that country.

As for putting up a wall, in the past when America has embraced an isolationist policy, we were criticized as well. But perhaps isolationism might be an answer.

Who I chose to vote for in any past or future election has no bearing on this discussion. Was there a point in asking??
 
The Pat Buchanan remark was a smarta$$ comment on my part............sorry! But, your post did remind me of Mr Buchanan's campaign rhetoric. Anyway, we aren't going to solve this thing here on this forum. And the opinions of all who care to post them is rather interesting to me.:)
 
Are you the president of the BIN LADEN FAN CLUB??
:D
sure sounds like it to me..........and probably everybody else too......:D
 
Cutiepie24, the Bin Laden Fan Club??? Now where did that come from?? What do you read in the post that gives you that impression??

And DEWRANGLER 2, no appology necessary but thanks for the clarification of the Buchannan comment. My comments are facts and sustained by history. These are not my political leanings or criticisms, they are what they are, facts. They are intended as nothing more and nothing less.
 
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