...a note about fuel injection

J

jmule10200

Guest
Last year NASCAR implemented the new fuel injection system designed by Freescale (Motorola) Semiconductor and Mcclaron automotive engineering. This does bring some serious facts and concerns to light. With fuel injection systems there are always hidden tweaks that can be done just prior to a race that can go undedected by NASCAR officials. This is why NASCAR has rejected it's use for so long. As an automotive technologist, I know that ther can be radical changes made to any electronic fuel injection that could "appear" to the native program to be normal. All I have to remember is what basic things will make more horsepower...... And how to hide them from NASCAR.
 
It's only a matter of time before someone abuses this...probably Danicrash or King of Columbia.
 
jmule10200 said:
Last year NASCAR implemented the new fuel injection system designed by Freescale (Motorola) Semiconductor and Mcclaron automotive engineering. This does bring some serious facts and concerns to light. With fuel injection systems there are always hidden tweaks that can be done just prior to a race that can go undedected by NASCAR officials. This is why NASCAR has rejected it's use for so long. As an automotive technologist, I know that ther can be radical changes made to any electronic fuel injection that could "appear" to the native program to be normal. All I have to remember is what basic things will make more horsepower...... And how to hide them from NASCAR.
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Heh , welcome to the forum jmule . Good insight into the fuel injection system . It's far above my paygrade as far as knowing anything about it , but I'm sure all of the engineers on all of the teams do understand it and are taking full advantage.Nascar did hold back on using it for a long time , I figure they waited till they were sure they could control it .
 
FenderBumper said:
I'm pretty sure McClaren got the contract because their tampering security has a proven track record. If I recall correctly, every bit of data running thru the system during the entire race is stored so nascar can download and analize it for cheating.
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I also understand that there were more sophisticated systems that NASCAR could have chosen instead of the McLaren system they decided to go with. I think that FB is right on. A newer system may have been harder to monitor.
 
Well between the fuel injection and the new airflows around and under the chassis and all the stuff that normally happens anyway....this could be a VERY interesting Daytona 500 ;)

Oooops...Junior just blew an engine in practice...:eek:
 
If and when someone tweaks the new FI system, and is caught, I think we'll see some of the stiffest fines in NASCAR with regard to "unapproved adjustments" and "12-4-A, actions detrimental to stock car racing".
 
I'm wondering about Brad's engine after he had a failure in the fuel delivery system.

We already know that an ethanol-blend fuel burns hotter than straight gasoline - and that when an engine runs lean on fuel that it can get even hotter.

Might his engine have been damaged (burned piston, scorched valves, crystalized piston rings) when his fuel pump failed?
 
robbybee said:
I'm wondering about Brad's engine after he had a failure in the fuel delivery system.

We already know that an ethanol-blend fuel burns hotter than straight gasoline - and that when an engine runs lean on fuel that it can get even hotter.

Might his engine have been damaged (burned piston, scorched valves, crystalized piston rings) when his fuel pump failed?
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That's a good question. Brad isn't all that good at Daytona, and his luck is even worse, so I half expect him to wreck out of the race. I would hate to miss that because of a blown engine. ;)
 
Bobw said:
Build a better mouse trap, the mice get smarter. For every tamper proof system known to man there's someone somewhere saying "hold my beer and watch this..."
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We had a thread months or a year ago, it was a list of sayings like yours.

It was damn funny.

If somebody knows where that thing is. Bring it back.
 
As I stated there are ways to make radical changes to fuel and advance curves and make the ECU "think" that everything is normal. Even without reprogramming anything.
 
ok the engine is a giant air pump, get more air and fuel in there and its going to make more power. electronically I think they can do whatever they want to with the fuel the engine gets. so that leaves adding more air to the system and I hate to tell you adding more air isn't really electronic. this is controlled by the size of the throttle body. what the teams do is lean the engines out at certain RPM like say cruising around during caution. or they can do other tuning things for max power or fuel mileage. The more interesting thing to me is how all the sensors go to the ECU, like the oil pressure, water temp etc. then all this info is sent out to the gauges rather than wiring gauges direct to each individual sensor. this has to make wiring of the cars far more simpler. it is more consistent with modern cars.

one trick I heard done with plate motors is they would purposely have leaks in the intake manifold gasket area or somehow a gap would form in the intake allowing more air into the engine, which when it comes to plate motors is a huge thing. I also don't think engine power is the be all end all most people think it is. it is on a RP track yeah, but I don't think even 20 hp is going to be noticed on even a 1.5 mile track. its so hard to tell this stuff anyways because it also depends on where the engine makes the power in the rpm band. this was toyota's initial problem the first year in the cup series before joe gibbs came on board. their engines would really put out a huge peak number but lower rpm power was down when compared to the others.
 
If I'm not mistaken , Nascar tears down the winning engine and inspects it . Course they probably don't have inspectors capable of spotting extra air intakes and tampering with the fuel injection system.
 
nascar downloads the data from the top five finishers and checks it for anything funny. Data can't be downloaded during the race, it can only be downloaded after a testing run or after the race, so no in race tinkering can be done.
 
On topic this is a boring ass thread but otherwise I've enjoyed it with a couple a belly laughs.
 
yep..time for the tinfoil hats. The foil on the handlebars direct the beams into the ground..kinda like a martian lightening rod. The seat..can't talk about it in mixed company. Dog is protected though

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It would be extremely hard for anyone to cheat on the EFI side. Trust Me. Nascar picked Mclaren for this very reason (and $$). It really comes down to if it's really worth it. The answer is mostly no now. If Nascar found anyone messing with the ECU and it's sensor they would come down very hard on that team.

There are still plenty of things for teams to play with that are within the rules on the ECU side.
 
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