American Grand Prix in 2012

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foehammer111

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It's official. F1 is returning to America, but not where you'd expect.

In 2012 the American Grand Prix will be held in Austin, Texas. Since the area doesn't currently have a track, one is being built from the ground up just for F1. It's the first time a track in the US has been built just for F1. The contract agreement will have F1 races at the track through 2021.

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2010/5/10824.html
 
foehammer111 said:
It's official. F1 is returning to America, but not where you'd expect.

In 2012 the American Grand Prix will be held in Austin, Texas. Since the area doesn't currently have a track, one is being built from the ground up just for F1. It's the first time a track in the US has been built just for F1. The contract agreement will have F1 races at the track through 2021.

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2010/5/10824.html
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WOW! That's a shocker! Autin, Texas? They must've ponied up a ton of money! :eek:
 
That's interesting...I wonder exactly how much $$$ it took for Mr. Eccelstone to overcome his (apparent) hatred of all things US of A to make this happen?

I will say that I am glad it isn't back at Indy. That was just a poor track with an uber-extra-long straightaway followed up with a go-cart track. I wish I knew a little more of the numbers that it took to make this little deal happen. My gut instinct tells me this is not going to work out. I have a hard time believing they will attract the crowds needed to turn a profit.

If NASCAR and Indy are struggling to get people to fill the stands why would F1 succeed?
 
Dionysius said:
If NASCAR and Indy are struggling to get people to fill the stands why would F1 succeed?
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Good point. F1 likes to think of itself as being international, but it's really only popular in Europe. I know of some people here who are diehard F1 fans, but they are the minority. F1 doesn't even register a blip on the American sports radar.

Another thing to keep in mind is that this is the heart of NASCAR country. TMS isn't far from Austin. Those fans are used to having two races a year where there is frequent passing, and they can see the entire track. Attending a race where they can only see the lead cars once every 2 minutes, and where the pole sitter has a 60% chance of winning the race with no lead changes is going to be quite a shock. Plus F1 races are mandated to be less than 2 1/2 hours long. Thus making most races around 200 miles. Combine that with ticket prices that are going to be very expensive, and this is going to be a hard sell compaired to the value of NASCAR races.

Then there's the weather. Weather around there is quite capable of 100+ degrees in the summer. It's brutal on the cars, drivers, and more importantly the fans. That's why NASCAR avoids tracks like Texas and Phoenix during the summer. If F1 does the smart thing, and decides to have this race in the spring or fall, they are going to be around the same time NASCAR is in town at TMS. Again, making this a hard sell.

I'm not saying this will fail, but rather that there are many hurdles F1 will have to overcome. Perhaps the most immediate concern is the track itself. With the first race due sometime in 2012, they have a lot of work to do to get ready. Especially considering they haven't even broken ground yet.

I just don't see why they chose to make a new track rather than use the legendary road courses America already has: Sebring, Road America, Laguna Seca, Watkin's Glen, Infineon, Barber, and Long Beach just to name a few. Some of which F1 has raced at before.
 
foehammer111 said:
Then there's the weather. Weather around there is quite capable of 100+ degrees in the summer. It's brutal on the cars, drivers, and more importantly the fans. That's why NASCAR avoids tracks like Texas and Phoenix during the summer. If F1 does the smart thing, and decides to have this race in the spring or fall, they are going to be around the same time NASCAR is in town at TMS. Again, making this a hard sell.
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Hard sell yes but I think F1 can handle the brutal heat. They race in Malaysia and Abudabi (sp?) and those tracks are quite notorious for warm weather.

I didn't even consider the close proximity to TMS. Yeah, this move has me scratching my head.
 
foehammer111 said:
I just don't see why they chose to make a new track rather than use the legendary road courses America already has: Sebring, Road America, Laguna Seca, Watkin's Glen, Infineon, Barber, and Long Beach just to name a few. Some of which F1 has raced at before.
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key being raced at and abandoned before. i agree an established track should have been selected. not a good time to be building racetracks.
 
Turns out that Texas taxpayers are going to be paying the bill for F1 to bring the race to Austin.

$25 Million from the state's "Major Event Trust Fund" will be going directly into F1's pockets to pay for the sanctioning fee. The money was to be used to pay local governments to improve infrastructure, but a rewrite to the law last year by the Texas Legislature allows the State Comptroller's office to do whatever it needs to do for "attracting and securing eligible events."

The event organizers have yet to indicate how they're going to pay for the estimated $250 million track.
 
foehammer111 said:
Turns out that Texas taxpayers are going to be paying the bill for F1 to bring the race to Austin.

$25 Million from the state's "Major Event Trust Fund" will be going directly into F1's pockets to pay for the sanctioning fee. The money was to be used to pay local governments to improve infrastructure, but a rewrite to the law last year by the Texas Legislature allows the State Comptroller's office to do whatever it needs to do for "attracting and securing eligible events."

The event organizers have yet to indicate how they're going to pay for the estimated $250 million track.
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You can imagine my surprise :sarcasm: when I heard that.

We have three weekends of racing at TMS - April - June - November

April/November are day races and the June races are night races due to the heat factor. In fact, it will most likely be in the 100's by this weekend for the race events.

Not an F1 fan before the deal for Austin, TX and most certainly won't be attending and giving them "more" of my money.
 
foehammer111 said:
Turns out that Texas taxpayers are going to be paying the bill for F1 to bring the race to Austin.
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Oh boy am I glad I don't live in Texas. I'd be beatin' the state capital doors down over that nonsense.
 
majestyx said:
You can imagine my surprise :sarcasm: when I heard that.

We have three weekends of racing at TMS - April - June - November

April/November are day races and the June races are night races due to the heat factor. In fact, it will most likely be in the 100's by this weekend for the race events.

Not an F1 fan before the deal for Austin, TX and most certainly won't be attending and giving them "more" of my money.
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Agreed. No surprise there.

That said, a friend and I will proabbly go. He's a big F1 fan.
 
There already is road course in Austin, Tx. It's owned by an ex-Ferrari test driver and stunt driver. The Texas State troopers learn high speed driving on this track. All is needed is the grandstands to be built. They have several different track layouts, this one in the link could with just a little tweaking easily be a nice F1 course.

http://www.drivewayaustin.com/track-maps/elevation-course
 
That does seem like a cool course. Sadly, it sounds like it has rapid elevation changes (they simulated the corkscrew from Laguna Seca), which F1 seems to hate.

The $25 Million that taxpayers are forking out to get the F1 circus in town is actually kind of small compared to other cities. Montreal just paid $100 million in tax payer money to get F1 back at Circuit Gilles Villeneuve.
 
More details were announced about the new US Grand Prix race in Austin.

Red McCombs, the former Saints/Vikings/Spurs/Nuggets owner, was revealed as the financial backer. The location of the track was also revealed. It's going to be developed on a 900 acre plot about 10 miles SE of downtown Austin in a town called Elroy.

340x_track_location.jpg


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There's also a new US Grand Prix website:
http://formula1unitedstates.com/index.html

If you want to purchase tickets to attend a race at a track that hasn't been built yet, you can enter your information at the site to reserve tickets.

Honestly, I think this whole thing is going the route of the USF1 team. It's full of empty promises. According to McCombs, Ecclestone asked him this morning how he can possibly build a new track in 2 years, and the Texan businessman told him, "This is Texas." That's not a reassuring answer.

Even if all the money and local politics fall into place for this, I don't see them having this track finished by Summer 2012 (when the race is likely to take place). By comparison ground was broken for the Chicagoland Speedway in September 1999, and the first race held in July 2001. And that track is far less complex, and doesn't have to meet the strict technical requirements of the FIA.

If they break ground tomorrow, they will have to work their asses off to get this ready for 2012. Again, this is all assuming there's legit money behind this and no local politics try to block it.
 
foehammer111 said:
Even if all the money and local politics fall into place for this, I don't see them having this track finished by Summer 2012 (when the race is likely to take place).
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I think it is definitely possible...but unlikely. I work in construction and a properly motivated construction company can turn out a lot of work in a hurry. Remember, that this is Texas and they can work almost year around. I've seen crews churn out millions of dollars of work 6 months early on a 2 year job just to claim an early completion incentive bonus. Whether or not these investors have the $$$ to offer an early completion bonus is anyone's guess obviously. Also, with GPS technology nowadays, excavating, grading and paving are a cinch to get within tight tolerances. I think the facilities are going to be the factor that kills the schedule. Architects have a way of doing that sort of thing.
 
what a weird shapped property
 
Dionysius said:
IRemember, that this is Texas and they can work almost year around.
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Good point. I didn't think about that.

Still, they're going to have their work cut out for them. The Korean Grand Prix track broke ground in 2007, and it's still not complete. Hermann Tilke (who also designed the Turkey, Abu Dhabi, Valencia, Bahrain tracks, as well as resigned Silverstone and Hockenheim) is the designer for both the Korean and American tracks. He told the German press that the Korean track wont be ready in time for the race this October.

Granted, there's a lot of other factors involved, but considering the Korean track had an additional year of development I can't help but feel doubtful about this track.

But time will tell.
 
foehammer111 said:
Granted, there's a lot of other factors involved, but considering the Korean track had an additional year of development I can't help but feel doubtful about this track.

But time will tell.
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Another factor that is positively HUGE is the government aspect. Who knows, maybe the Korean track is subject to immense scrutiny from government inspectors. You never know. What that aspect is like in Texas is beyond me. Even good contractors can get held up for long periods due to over-zealous inspectors. Of course, the flip side is that bad contractors can hold themselves up due to their own idiocy. I am currently dealing with the former on a rather disappointing project.
 
Here in DFW, december thru february are the time that are hard to work in. That said, the house buolder in our devp were even pouring foundations when it was 28 degrees. Granted that foundation looked like chit, and probably should have been ripped up, it wasnt half bad once floated (obviously).

The FIA spec concrete will only be able to be poured in March-May and October and November, otherwise it will be too hot or too cold. But the concrete for the paddock will be a little looser, and the buildings probably won't matter. It's doable, but not easily. Eagles Canyon took 2 years to build, it has FIA spec concrete but minimal buildings.
 
That's kind of a myth about concrete. It can be poured at anytime of year provided proper precautions are followed. ACI (American Concrete Institute) has a lot to say on the matter. (I am assuming the FIA would make similar provisions - they'd be foolish not to.) The most difficult hurdle to cold weather pouring is that it cannot be poured on a frozen grade. I doubt the ground freezes much (if at all) in the DFW area. There are lots of ways to insulate concrete from the cold and surprisingly it's not terribly difficult to achieve since curing is an exothermic reaction. It all boils down to how quick does it need to be done and how much the budget is.

Pick any two:

cheap
quick
quality

;)

Okay...I'll stop being construction geek now...maybe.
 
looking at the directiona rea I think they should run the other way
 
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