An Idea For the Busch Series

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SuperChuck5

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Full article here- http://www.insiderracingnews.com/Writers/CW/070907.html

But the main point is this-

NASCAR needs to establish a new trophy in the Busch series, complete with a 10 race “chase” playoff format—BUT for which Cup regulars aren’t eligible. The Busch championship would remain open to all competitors and awarded just like it always has been. Cup regulars wouldn’t be kept out of Busch racing and could continue their dominance there. But a separate trophy for the Busch-only competitors would give hardware and legitimacy to a points race that, as of now, isn’t even official (but you can bet is on the minds of everyone involved in a Busch-only team). And a chase format would build some much needed late season excitement into the Busch series.

With a separate trophy, Kevin Harvick and Matt Kenseth might still win the last four races of the Busch season like they did in 2006 … but wouldn’t it be exciting if, at the same time, Bobby Hamilton, Jr., Jason Leffler and Scott Wimmer were still fighting for the Busch-only trophy, as the green flag fell at Homestead in November?
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Anyone else think that's a good idea?
 
I don't like the idea that there would be 2 trophies. That would make things really confusing. Especially if a full time Busch driver won both. It would be easier to not give points to the full time Cup drivers. Let'em win and collect the paychecks for the positions they finish in, just don't give them the points that goes with that position. Problem solved. They aren't really racing for the points anyway.
 
I don't like the idea of 2 trophies either. Trophy shoud go to the driver with the most points......period.
 
It doesn't diminish the Busch Championship to have a Busch-only driver trophy.

There are other awards in Nascar and there always have been. There is the rookie of the year, there is the owner points championship. There are other awards. Just think of it that way.

There would still be the Busch Championship like always. But this would give credit to the highest finishing Busch-only driver.
 
tkj24 said:
I know unless something would take Carl out of the Busch races for about 6 races he has the title wrapped up.
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Stop letting Cup drivers run in Busch, PERIOD.

You either run in Cup full-time, or Busch full-time and Cup part time (rookies, 2nd year drivers).

Should've stopped last year with Harvick (although at least Harvick could compete in Cup, NOT ONE of the 2007 full-time Buschwhackers are competitive in Sprint Cup week in and week out).
 
I'd rather see the top 10 Busch drivers honored than see the #8 driver, Sauter, get a meaningless trophy last year. And, IMO, it doesn't compare to ROY. That is something driver's cherish. Owner's points, yeah people really follow that one. It's just as meaningless.
 
You don't think the Busch drivers would cherish winning the Busch-only award? Whenever I hear a driver that only races the Busch series talk about where they finished, it's almost always in comparison to the other Busch guys. Bobby Hamilton Jr. says when he looks at the points, he just automatically excludes the Cup guys.

Notice how excited they all get when a Busch guy wins a race? Stephen Liecht for example? I think they would most definitely cherish that award. And by having a chase format, it wouldn't just be the #8 driver overall like Sauter would have been, for example. It would be the Busch driver that won the playoff after 10 weeks of head to head competition- regardless of what the Cup drivers were doing.
 
barelypure said:
I'd rather see the top 10 Busch drivers honored than see the #8 driver, Sauter, get a meaningless trophy last year. And, IMO, it doesn't compare to ROY. That is something driver's cherish. Owner's points, yeah people really follow that one. It's just as meaningless.
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It's friggin impossible for a Busch driver to win a race though, because Cup guys are coming is, using their Cup teams and premuim equipment and sweeping the top 10 in Busch, than go to Sprint Cup and finish 38th.
 
If the car the Cup driver drives in Cup is in the top 35 in owner's points, tell them they can either run the Sprint Cup race OR the Busch race that weekend, but not both.

Make it a violation of the rule book to double duty, unless the Cup driver is doing it in their own car or a low-budget Busch team, without Nextel Cup team support.
 
AndyMarquisLIVE said:
If the car the Cup driver drives in Cup is in the top 35 in owner's points, tell them they can either run the Sprint Cup race OR the Busch race that weekend, but not both.

Make it a violation of the rule book to double duty, unless the Cup driver is doing it in their own car or a low-budget Busch team, without Nextel Cup team support.
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The problem with that though is that Nascar likes having Cup drivers in Busch. It's good for sponsorship (who would you rather spend your sponsorship dollars on?) and its good for ratings. Many casual fans don't really care whether the drivers are Buschwhacking, they just like to see the big guys race as much as possible. I have read that for these reasons, Nascar really isn't open to keeping Cup drivers out of the Busch series. So we have to come up with another solution. I think a separate trophy is the only thing that works.

Or as some say, just leave it alone. But if the Busch series is supposed to be something more than just a little race before the big race- then something needs to be done.
 
SuperChuck5 said:
The problem with that though is that Nascar likes having Cup drivers in Busch. It's good for sponsorship (who would you rather spend your sponsorship dollars on?) and its good for ratings. Many casual fans don't really care whether the drivers are Buschwhacking, they just like to see the big guys race as much as possible. I have read that for these reasons, Nascar really isn't open to keeping Cup drivers out of the Busch series. So we have to come up with another solution. I think a separate trophy is the only thing that works.

Or as some say, just leave it alone. But if the Busch series is supposed to be something more than just a little race before the big race- then something needs to be done.
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But look how well the Busch standalone events do. Do you really think all those fans went to Kentucky to see Carl Edwards, David Ragan, Greg Biffle, Dave Blaney and David Stremee? :rolleyes:
 
Yeah, that's a good point. And the truck series does moderately well.

Perhaps Nascar's view that keeping Cup drivers out would significantly harm Busch popularity isn't accurate.
 
I might be in the minority here, but I think its okay if the Sprint Cup drivers are double dipping. They provide marquee drivers, great competition and big sponsors. Its grueling to run both series and it a testament to their endurance and altheticism. The ASA series is basically what the Busch series used to be (with a little dirt mixed in) and is a great proving ground for new talent. As far as I'm concerned, if they are running full time in both series, they are not "buschwhakers" at all. They are regulars just like he rest of the "regulars."
 
carsntunes said:
I might be in the minority here, but I think its okay if the Sprint Cup drivers are double dipping. They provide marquee drivers, great competition and big sponsors. Its grueling to run both series and it a testament to their endurance and altheticism. The ASA series is basically what the Busch series used to be (with a little dirt mixed in) and is a great proving ground for new talent. As far as I'm concerned, if they are running full time in both series, they are not "buschwhakers" at all. They are regulars just like he rest of the "regulars."
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Not if Carl Edwards has the advantage of a Cup racing program to win a Busch championship.

They need to make it AS HARD AS THEY CAN for Cup drivers to run in Busch. I just hate seeing these young guys trying to prove themselves not being able to have top 10 runs because of big Cup drivers, and EVEN WORSE being wrecked out by Sprint Cup drivers (David Ragan causes 1-3 wrecks in Busch every week and then causes a wreck in Sprint Cup).

And I espically think they need to go HARDER on Cup teams that cheat in Busch (Edwards, Harvick, Busch IF HE DID). Take 200 points, suspend the teams 10 races and cripple them as much as they can. The 25 point penalty on Edwards was :bsflag:
 
howbout this? You knwo the top 35 rule? Lets amend it in busch real quick.

Herein, a "cup driver" is defined as any NON-ROOKIE driver that has run more than20 of the last 36 races.

Put a cap on the busch grid, that says there can ONLY be 10 cup drivers in the race. If more than 10 show up, the fastest 10 race, and the rest go in the DNQ column. Unless this makes the field short of 43 cars, in which case the following amendment takes action.

In the event that a field falls short of 43 cars, drivers that are OUTSIDE the top 25 in cup points take superiority over those inside the top 25.


So if 18 cup drivers (8 inside top 25/10 outside) and 30 busch drivers show up, then the field is ordered by the existing rulebook, but then the (8) drivers that are not in the group of the fastest 10 are put on the DNQ list. But that creates a short field of 40 cars. At that point, any drivers on the DNQ list that are OUTSIDE the top 25 in points are put in the grid at the back, positioned in order of qualifying time. If, even after that, there is still a short field, then those remaining drivers on the DNQ list will then be added to the field (again, in the back) in order of qualifing time.

Is that simple enough?
 
Magnethead said:
howbout this? You knwo the top 35 rule? Lets amend it in busch real quick.

Herein, a "cup driver" is defined as any NON-ROOKIE driver that has run more than20 of the last 36 races.

Put a cap on the busch grid, that says there can ONLY be 10 cup drivers in the race. If more than 10 show up, the fastest 10 race, and the rest go in the DNQ column. Unless this makes the field short of 43 cars, in which case the following amendment takes action.

In the event that a field falls short of 43 cars, drivers that are OUTSIDE the top 25 in cup points take superiority over those inside the top 25.


So if 18 cup drivers (8 inside top 25/10 outside) and 30 busch drivers show up, then the field is ordered by the existing rulebook, but then the (8) drivers that are not in the group of the fastest 10 are put on the DNQ list. But that creates a short field of 40 cars. At that point, any drivers on the DNQ list that are OUTSIDE the top 25 in points are put in the grid at the back, positioned in order of qualifying time. If, even after that, there is still a short field, then those remaining drivers on the DNQ list will then be added to the field (again, in the back) in order of qualifing time.

Is that simple enough?
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Don't guarentee a Cup driver a spot in the race. If you're in the top 35 in NSC points, you MUST qualify in on time in Busch. Past champions provisionals do not apply in Busch to Sprint Cup Series drivers.

If a NSC driver cannot make it to the Busch scene 30 minutes before the designated start time for qualifying, they cannot qualify or race the car.

And then, schedule Cup final practice and Busch qualifying at the same time.
 
Yep. I think that's another way of handling it. Maybe tweak the numbers a bit. But yeah, that would be a possible solution too.
 
barelypure said:
I don't like the idea that there would be 2 trophies. That would make things really confusing. Especially if a full time Busch driver won both. It would be easier to not give points to the full time Cup drivers. Let'em win and collect the paychecks for the positions they finish in, just don't give them the points that goes with that position. Problem solved. They aren't really racing for the points anyway.
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This is the best idea i think, let the Cup guys race for the win , but let the Busch guys race for the points. It is an easy solution.
 
Mopardh9 said:
This is the best idea i think, let the Cup guys race for the win , but let the Busch guys race for the points. It is an easy solution.
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I think this would definitely be better than it is currently.

But just to play devil's advocate, doing that would make it very difficult to establish a Busch team by using a Cup driver, and the sponsors the Cup driver might bring to an emerging Busch team. That may or may not be a good thing, depending on your perspective.
 
Well i think the entire idea behind the Busch series was to promote up and coming drivers from the short tracks around the country. Such as the Busch East, Whelen Modified Tours, The Busch West, ASA,....ect. To let all the Cup guys in definetly hurts the smaller teams that only field Busch cars. I think that letting only a predetermined number of Cup guys race each week for just points would be the best idea. I like seeing the new guys race and develop along the way, i don't particulary like seeing Cup guys win every week...that is why i watch Cup races!:D
 
SuperChuck5 said:
I think this would definitely be better than it is currently.

But just to play devil's advocate, doing that would make it very difficult to establish a Busch team by using a Cup driver, and the sponsors the Cup driver might bring to an emerging Busch team. That may or may not be a good thing, depending on your perspective.
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I'm not following. If a Cup driver only comes over to race a few races for the money, experience, etc. where does the sponsor come in? It's not going to be a full time team anyway. And, a Cup driver driving part time in Busch pretty much guarantees that the sponsor will get on TV.

I do like pairing up the Trucks with Cup and making the Busch race across the country. And, making the scheduling changes, as someone suggested, would work as well. Let the Cup drivers fly across the country but since they didn't qualify they get to start at the back. That would make for some exciting racing.
 
barelypure said:
I'm not following. If a Cup driver only comes over to race a few races for the money, experience, etc. where does the sponsor come in? It's not going to be a full time team anyway. And, a Cup driver driving part time in Busch pretty much guarantees that the sponsor will get on TV.

I do like pairing up the Trucks with Cup and making the Busch race across the country. And, making the scheduling changes, as someone suggested, would work as well. Let the Cup drivers fly across the country but since they didn't qualify they get to start at the back. That would make for some exciting racing.
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They the Gods of Nascar were supposed to change the schedule this year so that the trucks would get paired with the IRL at most races and the Busch guys wouldn't have the same race dates that the Cup guys had. That didn't happen though, i do like the idea of pairing the Trucks with the Cup guys and the Busch with the IRL, i think that would work. Not too many Cup teams would fly their guys all around the country, plus not many guys would want to do it anyway with the logistics being bad. That way Nascar wouldn't need to put a ceiling on Cup guys in the Busch series. Right now watching 16 Cup guys race in a Busch event gets old after awhile. You know a Cup guy is going to win, not what i consider good racing.
 
I'm all for giving the Busch guys as many chances as possible to succeed. But in all honesty, the Busch series would not be near as interesting if not for the Cup guys. It's nothing personal, but I would not watch a lap if the races only had Hamilton Jr., Crash Wallace, and Leffler.

NASCAR's in a spot because many other feel like I do. But they also have to provide a place for the inexperienced drivers to get that experience and hopefully move up. The number of full time Busch teams continues to drop each year because of the Cup teams' involvement. There is no easy fix without severely hurting attendance.
 
MRM said:
I'm all for giving the Busch guys as many chances as possible to succeed. But in all honesty, the Busch series would not be near as interesting if not for the Cup guys. It's nothing personal, but I would not watch a lap if the races only had Hamilton Jr., Crash Wallace, and Leffler.

NASCAR's in a spot because many other feel like I do. But they also have to provide a place for the inexperienced drivers to get that experience and hopefully move up. The number of full time Busch teams continues to drop each year because of the Cup teams' involvement. There is no easy fix without severely hurting attendance.
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I disagree on this ....there would be younger guys in the Busch series in place of the Cup guys, giving new teams a chance to succeed. If the field is smaller than 43 , so what....i still would like to watch new up and coming guys in a series where they belong rather than a bunch of Cup guys stealing the show.
 
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