And Stewart is Fined 35K On The Same Day

"You will not have heard a rant that’s going to be as bad as what’s going to come out of my mouth if a driver gets hurt because of a loose wheel that hurts one of them."

I bet Tony's got a check already filled out, signed and ready to hand to NASCAR if this rant ever becomes necessary. :XXROFL:
 
As for trashmouthing the league or whatever, I wish short tracks would start considering this. I'm getting sick and tired of reading, every single week, how this track sucks and this track promoter's a piece of **** and don't ever go to this track because a driver didn't get their way or a fan didn't like the burger.

On the short track level, it's reached a point where tracks are literally being run out of business by smartphone soldiers and keyboard cowboys. Other track owners have gotten so tired of people constantly ****mouthing the track that they've just decided to close the track. And I don't blame them.

Some of the fans I saw ****mouthing tracks this past weekend just lost their home track a couple months ago and are already trying to mouth the newest track into extinction.

It's even worse when drivers do it because they tell their fans they're never going back here and not to go there and then they show up the next week, they get to race and have fun, and then they go to the payout window with their hands out. After telling thousands of people not to show up and support that place.

I had one complaint about a race I went to recently, regarding concession lines. Instead of going on Facebook, "This track is awful and this promoter is a piece of ****", I called him the next day and explained to him what the problem was and even offered up a solution. Funny how that works.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
As for trashmouthing the league or whatever, I wish short tracks would start considering this. I'm getting sick and tired of reading, every single week, how this track sucks and this track promoter's a piece of sh!t and don't ever go to this track because a driver didn't get their way or a fan didn't like the burger.

On the short track level, it's reached a point where tracks are literally being run out of business by smartphone soldiers and keyboard cowboys. Other track owners have gotten so tired of people constantly ****mouthing the track that they've just decided to close the track. And I don't blame them.

Some of the fans I saw ****mouthing tracks this past weekend just lost their home track a couple months ago and are already trying to mouth the newest track into extinction.

It's even worse when drivers do it because they tell their fans they're never going back here and not to go there and then they show up the next week, they get to race and have fun, and then they go to the payout window with their hands out. After telling thousands of people not to show up and support that place.

I had one complaint about a race I went to recently, regarding concession lines. Instead of going on Facebook, "This track is awful and this promoter is a piece of sh!t", I called him the next day and explained to him what the problem was and even offered up a solution. Funny how that works.
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And this has what to do with the multi-billion $$$ NASCAR industry?

You are right though...
 
I wonder if 5 Off - 5 On is gonna change their name to 5 Off - 3 1/2 On?
 
Rick said:
If you can't speak up about safety concerns your sanctioning body has gone too far.
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In this case, they don't see it as a safety concern. Neither do I.

Don't agree with the fine for this "infraction", however.
 
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Speedbowl14 said:
And this has what to do with the multi-billion $$$ NASCAR industry?

You are right though...
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NASCAR fans are just as bad.

I didn't see Bristol, so I asked how the race was. I was told it was a terrible race because the stands were empty. Yep, that's the metric for whether a race is good, how many people are in the stands. :rolleyes:

I agree 100 percent with Tony Stewart and I bet he don't have any issue paying this fine. He said what he thought needed to be said. Tony's the type of guy who puts money aside for fines before he says things anyway, LOL. But NASCAR has a rule in place about this stuff.

And I don't entirely disagree with the rule. You can't have drivers getting out of the car after wrecking and crying about how this track sucks (like Kyle Busch does) and how this owner's a piece of **** and how the fans should quit watching NASCAR because it's unfair. It's their court.

If I paid millions of dollars to open a racetrack and paid out race winnings and such, and the drivers I was giving money to were going around saying I'm a piece of **** and my track should be shut down and stuff, I'd probably go ahead and just close the track. That or tell those drivers to go somewhere else when they inevitably show up the next week.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
NASCAR fans are just as bad.

I didn't see Bristol, so I asked how the race was. I was told it was a terrible race because the stands were empty. Yep, that's the metric for whether a race is good, how many people are in the stands. :rolleyes:

I agree 100 percent with Tony Stewart and I bet he don't have any issue paying this fine. He said what he thought needed to be said. Tony's the type of guy who puts money aside for fines before he says things anyway, LOL. But NASCAR has a rule in place about this stuff.

And I don't entirely disagree with the rule. You can't have drivers getting out of the car after wrecking and crying about how this track sucks (like Kyle Busch does) and how this owner's a piece of sh!t and how the fans should quit watching NASCAR because it's unfair. It's their court.

If I paid millions of dollars to open a racetrack and paid out race winnings and such, and the drivers I was giving money to were going around saying I'm a piece of sh!t and my track should be shut down and stuff, I'd probably go ahead and just close the track. That or tell those drivers to go somewhere else when they inevitably show up the next week.
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I don't understand how anyone could base race quality on the number of fans in the stands or viewers at home as it makes no sense. IMO there has been some great racing this year and while Texas and Bristol were not my faves but I am still glad I watched.

The crowds were very thin at Bristol and one estimate said 70K but I think that is extremely generous. The X race the day before was shocking as there are more people in the stands during a driving rain.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
I don't understand how anyone could base race quality on the number of fans in the stands or viewers at home as it makes no sense. IMO there has been some great racing this year and while Texas and Bristol were not my faves but I am still glad I watched.

The crowds were very thin at Bristol and one estimate said 70K but I think that is extremely generous. The X race the day before was shocking as there are more people in the stands during a driving rain.
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Because racing fans have been intoxicated by the era of ugliness and "anti-PC". In order to prove you love something or prove your knowledge, you trashmouth the thing you love. And people bow down and worship you because of your knowledge.

I love racing but the fans in NASCAR and in short track racing, right now, are the worst fans in all of sports. They're doing more damage to the sport than Brian France. The way people trashmouth NASCAR on Twitter, nobody wants to watch. If people who "love" racing don't like it, why would new fans?
 
Tony's BAAAACK!!!!

FWIW In my little corner of the universe I don't see tracks that are being run out of business by smartphone soldiers and keyboard cowboys. Seekonk should have closed decades ago over the ****mouthing that goes on about that track and how it plays favorites. But no businessman is going to close the doors as long as the money is coming in.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Because racing fans have been intoxicated by the era of ugliness and "anti-PC". In order to prove you love something or prove your knowledge, you trashmouth the thing you love. And people bow down and worship you because of your knowledge.

I love racing but the fans in NASCAR and in short track racing, right now, are the worst fans in all of sports. They're doing more damage to the sport than Brian France. The way people trashmouth NASCAR on Twitter, nobody wants to watch. If people who "love" racing don't like it, why would new fans?
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The people you describe sound like malcontents that will never be happy
 
It's to the point now where a person can no longer speak their mind. And I'm not talking about just NASCAR.
 
Professur said:
Here's my thinking. One stud, one nut. If you're only going to put 4 nuts ... drill the axle for 4 studs, properly spaced. If 4 is enough, then 4 is enough.
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That would be expensive. Rotors, front hubs and wheels would also have to be manufactured with 4 correct spacing holes.
 
BobbyFord said:
That would be expensive. Rotors, front hubs and wheels would also have to be manufactured with 4 correct spacing holes.
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They make them all the time anyway and charge a fortune for them, re machine and provide them.
I agree with Professur totally
 
BobbyFord said:
That would be expensive. Rotors, front hubs and wheels would also have to be manufactured with 4 correct spacing holes.
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It's not like rotors have a long life to begin with. Hubs and wheels get trashed on a regular basis too. Hell, what do you think a wheel looks like when it's been run at 200mph with loose lugs? These are all consumables from the point of view of a racing team. And they're not exactly off the shelf parts either. I can't believe it would cost anything more to machine hubs for 4 bolts than 5. They're either getting them one off anyhow, or buying a dozen at a time. The CNC machine doesn't know, or care.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I think your statement describes many of today's NASCAR fans as well.
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I will be the first to admit that I have been very disappointed in Nascar for the last several years but the racing has been great this year and I haven't missed a lap. IMO if a person does not like the on track product in 2016 they will never like Nascar. Can't wait for Richmond!
 
Professur said:
It's not like rotors have a long life to begin with. Hubs and wheels get trashed on a regular basis too. Hell, what do you think a wheel looks like when it's been run at 200mph with loose lugs? These are all consumables from the point of view of a racing team. And they're not exactly off the shelf parts either. I can't believe it would cost anything more to machine hubs for 4 bolts than 5. They're either getting them one off anyhow, or buying a dozen at a time. The CNC machine doesn't know, or care.
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I disagree with this whole concept. 4 bolts cannot do what 5 can do.
 
Not to mention it would be pennies compared to just one of nascar's body change rules.
 
Stewart has a valid safety concern. Loose wheels aren't a good thing on 3300 pound plus missiles going over 150 mph. I don't blame him for "bad mouthing" NASCAR about it - not only does it put his life in more danger, but it puts fans lives in danger too. How good will NASCAR look if a loose wheel lands in the stands and kills somebody? Ask Bruton Smith why he doesn't have IRL races at Charlotte anymore...

NASCAR might best watch out how they hand out their fines. The Feds support whistle-blowers.

I agree that some people get "keyboard brave" and go overboard trash-talking race tracks. But Stewart has a legitimate concern, and NASCAR is reacting stupidly. Even so, you shouldn't blame your customers for problems. If those customers are unfair usually others notice it, and the trolls lose their own reputation and get ignored and ridiculed. But if the criticism is deserved then track owners best do all they can to fix the problem and soothe the complainers.

I have yet to see a track go under solely because people complained about it - every time those tracks had problems that they refused to correct and the criticism was deserved (as well as their loss of business). With the Wild West of communications we have today you're not going to fix things by complaining about complainers - that only makes it worse. Challenge customers to come see your product for themselves (and make sure they enjoy their experience). If you can absolutely identify race teams that are trash-talking your track, contact them privately to try to solve problems, and if that doesn't work then ask them to take their business elsewhere - and tactfully publish that to the same sites where they've been trash-talking you. You may be pleasantly surprised how the public turns against bullies and rallies behind people who sound level-headed and trying to make things better.
 
The clamping force of 4 fasteners does not equal the clamping force of 5.
This is evident in production vehicles. Smaller, lighter vehicles have four lug wheels. Larger, heavier passenger cars have 5 lug wheels. Light trucks above 1/2 ton payload have 8 lug wheels.
In the 60s and 70s, 6 cylinder Mustangs had 4 lug wheels while the same vehicle with a V8 had 5 lug wheels.
Given the speeds these cars run on the racetrack and the loads through the corners, Stewart has a very valid point.
 
Nascar is going too far with this one. It's ok in my book to concern safety of drivers and fans when we are talking about wheels potentially flying off...
 
Not supporting NASCAR's position here in any way but ...

A wheel / tire assembly loose enough to wear/enlarge the lug-holes enough to allow the wheel nuts to pass through them would render the car undrivable at race speed long before the wheel and the hub parted company.
 
aunty dive said:
Not supporting NASCAR's position here in any way but ...

A wheel / tire assembly loose enough to wear/enlarge the lug-holes enough to allow the wheel nuts to pass through them would render the car undrivable at race speed long before the wheel and the hub parted company.
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The wheel's not likely to come off because the holes got so big the wheel nuts pass through.
Long before that the lug nuts are gone away, or the wheel cracks and splits. The shaking might break another suspension part, and the driver might not be able to save the car.
 
gone said:
The wheel's not likely to come off because the holes got so big the wheel nuts pass through.
Long before that the lug nuts are gone away, or the wheel cracks and splits. The shaking might break another suspension part, and the driver might not be able to save the car.
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In either or all cases, the violent vibration would render the car undriveable before such a thing occurred. An improperly balanced wheel and tire shakes a passenger car at 60 mph.

It isn't impossible, but I think the chances of it happening are almost non-existent. Just my opinion, naturally, and based on mechanical stuff only.
 
Well... maybe not depending upon who your lobbiests bought and how much they spend...
Don't know if I'd like any tree huggers or EPA nuts jumping on board.
 
Bobw said:
Tony's BAAAACK!!!!

FWIW In my little corner of the universe I don't see tracks that are being run out of business by smartphone soldiers and keyboard cowboys. Seekonk should have closed decades ago over the ****mouthing that goes on about that track and how it plays favorites. But no businessman is going to close the doors as long as the money is coming in.
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It's happening all over the country.

It's a shame because it's the same people every week doing the ****mouthing. A handful of drivers and a handful of fans. I'd be perfectly okay with tracks telling those drivers they aren't welcome back at the track. They're taking money out of the owner's pocket every time they pull out their Samsung Galaxy and swipe away about how this promoter's a piece of **** and don't ever come back. And the "fans" I see doing the complaining, it's the same ones, every week.

I mean, NASCAR racing doesn't entertain me anymore. So, I don't go out of my way to watch anymore. Better than sitting around every week in misery and boredom complaining about how the races suck.
 
How often do we hear of drivers who keep racing despite "feeling a vibration"? Especially when track position is paramount?
I agree that a wheel coming off is unlikely, and that a driver wouldn't know before it might happen and wouldn't be smart enough to pit. But it's taking an awfully big risk with safety.
 
BobbyFord said:
That would be expensive. Rotors, front hubs and wheels would also have to be manufactured with 4 correct spacing holes.
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Other than the initial tooling and set up costs, how are the regular manufacturing costs for making them with 4 more expensive than making all those parts for 5?

And I acknowledge those start-up costs may be significant, but teams and their suppliers regularly incur those types of costs for other mandated changes; fuel-injection, anyone?
 
BobbyFord said:
The clamping force of 4 fasteners does not equal the clamping force of 5.
This is evident in production vehicles. Smaller, lighter vehicles have four lug wheels. Larger, heavier passenger cars have 5 lug wheels. Light trucks above 1/2 ton payload have 8 lug wheels.
In the 60s and 70s, 6 cylinder Mustangs had 4 lug wheels while the same vehicle with a V8 had 5 lug wheels.
Given the speeds these cars run on the racetrack and the loads through the corners, Stewart has a very valid point.
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Regardless of the number, no driver (or anyone else in the garage, shop, or front office) should get his knuckles whacked for pointing out a potential safety issue. He could have phrased it in a way that would have been more acceptable to the Powers That Be, but NASCAR has reacted to his delivery while failing to respond the critical issue.
 
aunty dive said:
Not supporting NASCAR's position here in any way but ...

A wheel / tire assembly loose enough to wear/enlarge the lug-holes enough to allow the wheel nuts to pass through them would render the car undrivable at race speed long before the wheel and the hub parted company.
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I respect your opinion. However, why is Tony Stewart who is a 3 time champion and car owner so concerned about the issue of safety with this new rule?
 
Mr. McPickle said:
I respect your opinion. However, why is Tony Stewart who is a 3 time champion and car owner so concerned about the issue of safety with this new rule?
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And I respect his. I'm not sure why he went off ... I just don't see it happening. I could certainly be wrong.

There's a stalemate now. This issue might be the excuse or the catalyst for some internal politics. No idea.
 
aunty dive said:
And I respect his. I'm not sure why he went off ... I just don't see it happening. I could certainly be wrong.

There's a stalemate now. This issue might be the excuse or the catalyst for some internal politics. No idea.
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Looks like NASCAR is giving into the pressure from the drivers. All five lug nuts must be securely attached to the wheel going forward or a penalty will be issued.
 
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