Another rant by SpeedPagan

[SpeedPagan]

So, the thread about Nascar's continued declining in the ratings has me wondering why this is, and I think I have stumbled upon the solution. Before I get too far into my rant, I'd like to say that this doesn't pertain to just NASCAR Sprint Cup, it's a problem that most form of auto racing is facing.

Now, to find out what's wrong with NASCAR, let's look at some of the other sports. Like Basketball. How common are basketball courts? Every city has them, from one at the YMCA, to one at the local park. Same thing for baseball and football. You don't need a big fancy field of court to play these sports, you just need some friends or family and the ball (or sometimes other equipment like a bat). Even Hockey is easy to play if you play hockey with roller skates.

People would watch the professional play the sports, whether it's NFL, NBA, MBL, or NHL and then they would go outside and take part of the sport themselves. There are amateur leagues throughout this country of people playing the sport because they enjoy playing the sport.

This does not happen in auto sport. There's just nothing the common man can relate to. It USED to be that the drivers would buy showroom cars, and soup them up for racing, and that was the connection. The common man would think to himself "Hmm, all I would need is to soup up my car, put in this and that and I can race baby!" Now there's this disconnect where it seems like you have to lay down big bucks to be competitive in the sport.

This is true, even for Karting. I know because back in the 90s, my brother raced WKA karts. My dad sold his Dodge Challenger (a classic one) in order to get the funding needed for my brother to race. It was an expensive endeavor. Karting's marketing is all wrong to, they advertise it as a stepping stone to NASCAR, instead of advertising it as an Amateur racing.

I know there are stock cars at the local tracks around America, and I think they are the saving grace of the auto racing sport, There, you can buy an old junker, fix it up, put in safety equipment and go racing at your local track. There's the Street Stock, Mini-Stock, and even the Fast and Furious (also known at Hornet class) racing. This is probably the only place where you don't have to buy specialized equipment in order to be competitive. However I'm sure I'm wrong on that.

If NASCAR want to see their ratings climb back up, then they need to find a way to relate the sport to the common man. They need to give a way for the common man to say to himself "Hmm, I could do that!" Every professional athletes today didn't start out playing their sport in hopes that they'll win money and endorsement deal, they started playing because they had passion for the sport, and I think auto racing and NASCAR have lost that.

/rant

 

[Magnethead]

You know, I agree with you for the most part. It all makes sense.

My freshman year of college, i was on the student racing team, and I constantly heard the SCCA bosses saying "How can we promote ourselves better?" Here in DFW, we have over 15 racing associations. But nobody knows of them. I'll be photo'ing an autocross, and people will pull up and say "What are ya'll doing?" Whan I say We're SCCa Autocross racing, They're usualy like "Oh, ok" and "What's that?"

Racing just isn't well advertised. Like you said, there is no "common" link. Even the Star Telegram doesnt say much.

http://www.star-telegram.com/340

http://sportsblogs.star-telegram.com/motorsports/2010/09/index.html

 

[Mopardh9]

I know there are stock cars at the local tracks around America, and I think they are the saving grace of the auto racing sport, There, you can buy an old junker, fix it up, put in safety equipment and go racing at your local track. There's the Street Stock, Mini-Stock, and even the Fast and Furious (also known at Hornet class) racing. This is probably the only place where you don't have to buy specialized equipment in order to be competitive. However I'm sure I'm wrong on that.

Sadly you are wrong about that above, while it is easy to get an old junker to fix it up to get it race worthy is another story. Even those classes cost money to competitive and many of these guys have some sponsors helping them out. Good point about the disconnect, makes a lot of sense!

 

[StewartHaas-Gibbs Racing]

Now, to find out what's wrong with NASCAR, let's look at some of the other sports. Like Basketball. How common are basketball courts? Every city has them, from one at the YMCA, to one at the local park. Same thing for baseball and football. You don't need a big fancy field of court to play these sports, you just need some friends or family and the ball (or sometimes other equipment like a bat). Even Hockey is easy to play if you play hockey with roller skates.

People would watch the professional play the sports, whether it's NFL, NBA, MBL, or NHL and then they would go outside and take part of the sport themselves. There are amateur leagues throughout this country of people playing the sport because they enjoy playing the sport.

This is also a problem Hockey faces, mainly because most families can't afford to have their kids play. The equipment and ice time costs so much and the costs only gets worse and worse as the kids get older and older

 

[SpeedPagan]

This is also a problem Hockey faces, mainly because most families can't afford to have their kids play. The equipment and ice time costs so much and the costs only gets worse and worse as the kids get older and older

Hmm good point, but if you just want to play for fun, you can always play roller skates hockey. There needs to be some way of offering the common man a chance to race, even if it's at the local level without spending tons of cash. That way, a guy can watch Sprint Cup, feel energize about it, go out and work on his car (or kart), and then go race on Friday/Saturday night and feel connected to the sport.

 

[buckaroo]

Good rant, but let's look at it from another standpoint. When NASCAR was, as you say, more common to the average American, just how many fans would you estimate NASCAR had? The sport began to grow in 1984 when ESPN began to show many of the races live on TV. The sport continued to grow into the 2000's and then it hit the wall. Now let's look at how many fans NASCAR had at that time. I don't know the number, but I'd say that it could have been 10, 20, or 30 times that of 1984. When Jeff Gordon came onto the scene, the cars were already specialized and yet the fans base continued to grow. When the competition became equal, the cars began to look alike, the fan base began to subside. And the reason for both of those things is that technology has made the sport so expensive that one team has to be able to compete with the others or they will fold.

 

[SpeedPagan]

Good rant, but let's look at it from another standpoint. When NASCAR was, as you say, more common to the average American, just how many fans would you estimate NASCAR had? The sport began to grow in 1984 when ESPN began to show many of the races live on TV. The sport continued to grow into the 2000's and then it hit the wall. Now let's look at how many fans NASCAR had at that time. I don't know the number, but I'd say that it could have been 10, 20, or 30 times that of 1984. When Jeff Gordon came onto the scene, the cars were already specialized and yet the fans base continued to grow. When the competition became equal, the cars began to look alike, the fan base began to subside. And the reason for both of those things is that technology has made the sport so expensive that one team has to be able to compete with the others or they will fold.

Hmm that is a good point. I think the problem with NASCAR today is coming from more than one source. You made a good point about the cars basically being too equal and the cars look alike, and I'd like to think that I made a good point about the fans feeling a disconnect from the sport.

Honestly I understand why they introduced the COT, it was mainly in response to the death of Earnhardt Sr. and I think that the COT has saved a few drivers from death. What I would like to see is them to return to the old ways of building cars (pre-COT) but with all the safety feature of the COT that protect the drivers. I don't know if that's possible, but it should at least be attempted.

On a more local level, they should try to make racing more affordable, maybe introduce a class that has a spending cap (you can't spend pass X amount on your car). That way people who want to race for the passion, and not necessarily for the money can do so. That way you have those NASCAR fans who also race themselves, so there's that connection.

Then again, maybe I'm wrong about why people go into racing.

 

[Mopardh9]

There are divisions that try to curb spending, like the SK light Mods up here in the Northeast. They run a spec motor, 2 barrel carb, basically you can't do too much to them outside of chasis set-up. The motors don't need to be freshened for at least 2 seasons. So if you have the initial cash (about $30k) you can go racing. The thing that gets expensive though is tires, fuel, and replacement parts in case of a crash and transporting your car to the track. The cost of the car alone isn't too bad, I think if I had a little more money I'd give it a go even at my age.

 

[SpeedPagan]

There are divisions that try to curb spending, like the SK light Mods up here in the Northeast. They run a spec motor, 2 barrel carb, basically you can't do too much to them outside of chasis set-up. The motors don't need to be freshened for at least 2 seasons. So if you have the initial cash (about $30k) you can go racing. The thing that gets expensive though is tires, fuel, and replacement parts in case of a crash and transporting your car to the track. The cost of the car alone isn't too bad, I think if I had a little more money I'd give it a go even at my age.

Hmm, that doesn't sound too bad. I hope that idea spreads.

 

[John Galt]

Great rant. I think you nailed a good portion of the problem.

I have a different slant, but it dovetails with your perspective, I believe.

Problem #1: Motor sports will never get its share of the headlines because the majority of the people who report sports come from a stick&ball background. S&B is what college sports are all about. So, any follower of motor sports will have to dig deep into the sports section for coverage of local action and will see the major races on page one of the sports section only on occasion, unless he's reading the paper from the immediate area of the race in question. To the media, motor sports is an afterthought and a "niche" sport with relatively few followers. It would be evident with the TV networks if they weren't locked into a multi-year contract. As soon as that contract expires, look for some drastic changes to take place there.

Problem #2: (My apologies to the folks who have heard this before on another Forum. Sorry, gang) The fan base has changed. The people who personally experienced the Great American Love Affair With the Automobile are disappearing. People used to love their cars and their cars were an extension of themselves. These folks just naturally gravitated to motor sports because of an affinity for the make of car they drove everyday. The drivers were secondary. Tricked-up racing (Playoffs, phantom cautions, lucky dawgs, COT's) were virtually unheard of and all the motor sports fan wanted was racing and the quality of the race wasn't determined by how many cars finished on the lead lap. It was generally determined by whose manufacturer finished first. Plus, as Pagan related to, the individual tracks had unique personalities.

Today that's all changed. Today's cars are expensive and the general focus is more toward economy than performance. The cars are basically generic and this is mirrored by the current NA__AR race car. The tracks are "Cookie Cutter and are, with the exception of a handful, completely interchangeable in appearance. There's just nothing for the old style fan to really love anymore. Enter the new fan and this new NA__AR is all they are personally familiar with. After the "It's fashionable to be a NA__AR fan" fad wore off, there just isn't that much to draw new fans to the sport, and NA__AR has decided that gimmicked-up racing is the way to lure new fans. It doesn't appear that it's working too well. As Pagan stated, the marketing has to be changed.

It's not the new fan's fault and I don't blame the old fan (of which I'm definitely one). I blame progress. With the advent of more efficient cars, more Green projects and the number of old fans going room temperature, I think racing as it once was will be gone. I hate to say it but I believe the new racing will resemble WWF a lot more than it resembles the NASCAR we once knew. It's just progress.

 

[buckaroo]

Great rant. I think you nailed a good portion of the problem.

I have a different slant, but it dovetails with your perspective, I believe. The rest of the post edited out...

I totally agree with all those points. Let me add one more, other than what I've been saying for years about technology. As we all know, NASCAR is in search for new fans and those fans will of course be of the younger generation. How do you connect to the younger generation? Can we say Hip Hop? Gone are the days where the drivers are big C and W music fans. Evidenced by what you see for concerts at the track. But it isn't just the fans, these younger drivers are also into the Hip Hop generation. In my opinion, the Hip Hop generation has most of the "NASCAR is a fad" type of fan and will quickly move on when the fun ceases to be the "in" thing. I remember when we attended the races (Cup racing), the tailgaters were real "rednecks" and country music could be heard everywhere. My wife and I were a proud part of it, even though the kids looked down their noses at us.

 

[SpeedPagan]

I totally agree with all those points. Let me add one more, other than what I've been saying for years about technology. As we all know, NASCAR is in search for new fans and those fans will of course be of the younger generation. How do you connect to the younger generation? Can we say Hip Hop? Gone are the days where the drivers are big C and W music fans. Evidenced by what you see for concerts at the track. But it isn't just the fans, these younger drivers are also into the Hip Hop generation. In my opinion, the Hip Hop generation has most of the "NASCAR is a fad" type of fan and will quickly move on when the fun ceases to be the "in" thing. I remember when we attended the races (Cup racing), the tailgaters were real "rednecks" and country music could be heard everywhere. My wife and I were a proud part of it, even though the kids looked down their noses at us.

Oh god.... I don't want to hear hip hop when I go to Charlotte Motor Speedway.

I'm more of a rock and roll kind of guy than a C&W kind of guy, but I'd rather have C&W than Hip Hop.

Someone needs to start up a rival stock car organization that can show Nascar how stock car racing is supposed to be done!

 

[kkfan91]

Oh god no, NASCAR LISTEN NO FREAKING HIP HOP. I don't care what the rest of my generation thinks because most of them are idiots, but rap and hip hop suck give me country anyday.

 

[John Galt]

I totally agree with all those points. Let me add one more, other than what I've been saying for years about technology. As we all know, NASCAR is in search for new fans and those fans will of course be of the younger generation. How do you connect to the younger generation? Can we say Hip Hop? Gone are the days where the drivers are big C and W music fans. Evidenced by what you see for concerts at the track. But it isn't just the fans, these younger drivers are also into the Hip Hop generation. In my opinion, the Hip Hop generation has most of the "NASCAR is a fad" type of fan and will quickly move on when the fun ceases to be the "in" thing. I remember when we attended the races (Cup racing), the tailgaters were real "rednecks" and country music could be heard everywhere. My wife and I were a proud part of it, even though the kids looked down their noses at us.

IF (Gawd forbid this ever happening!) I were the King of NA__AR, and IF (ditto) I didn't give a crap about racing or tradition but only wanted to make money, I would change the series to running "Rice Rockets," (the souped up little Honda S2000, the Mitsubishi's or the little Toyota's) and run those. The street racers of today are the nearest thing I can think of to the NASCAR "Motorhead" fan of yesterday.

I would just write off the long time fans, like myself, as lost causes. A disgruntled customer to whom you sell defective merchandise is far worse than having a non-customer you sell nothing to at all. I believe that NA__AR has alienated so many of us old fans so badly that we wouldn't come back if Brian begged us to; not to the product they produce today, anyway. It's good enough for the fan of today, but for us? Speaking for myself, I don't think so. The last race I watched I caught myself watching for the screw ups and questionable racing, rather than for good racing itself. That's no way to enjoy an afternoon. I find that I don't expect much from today's NA__AR, but then they've managed to set the bar pretty low.

It would be almost the same formula which was in place forty years ago, just with Hip-Hop and whatever kind of "music" (term used advisedly) the street racers listen to.

NA__AR's marketing to people who don't love cars and actually have little use for racing isn't where it's at and it's NOT what will continue to keep NA__AR solvent.

Just a random thought.

 

[Joniki]

IF (Gawd forbid this ever happening!) I were the King of NA__AR, and IF (ditto) I didn't give a crap about racing or tradition but only wanted to make money, I would change the series to running "Rice Rockets," (the souped up little Honda S2000, the Mitsubishi's or the little Toyota's) and run those. The street racers of today are the nearest thing I can think of to the NASCAR "Motorhead" fan of yesterday.

I would just write off the long time fans, like myself, as lost causes. A disgruntled customer to whom you sell defective merchandise is far worse than having a non-customer you sell nothing to at all. I believe that NA__AR has alienated so many of us old fans so badly that we wouldn't come back if Brian begged us to; not to the product they produce today, anyway. It's good enough for the fan of today, but for us? Speaking for myself, I don't think so. The last race I watched I caught myself watching for the screw ups and questionable racing, rather than for good racing itself. That's no way to enjoy an afternoon. I find that I don't expect much from today's NA__AR, but then they've managed to set the bar pretty low.

It would be almost the same formula which was in place forty years ago, just with Hip-Hop and whatever kind of "music" (term used advisedly) the street racers listen to.

NA__AR's marketing to people who don't love cars and actually have little use for racing isn't where it's at and it's NOT what will continue to keep NA__AR solvent.

Just a random thought.

I totally understand what you are saying but your statement made me throw up a little in the back of my mouth.

I really, really just want to watch racing.

 

[HoneyBadger]

According to John Daly and everyone on Twitter, TV coverage (primairly commercials and pre-empted Nationwide coverage) is the sole reason ratings are down in the Spitcup Series.

Saw some asinine comment earlier, fans saying they'd pay money to see the races commercial free. If that was the case, every race would be sold out.

 

[John Galt]

According to John Daly and everyone on Twitter, TV coverage (primairly commercials and pre-empted Nationwide coverage) is the sole reason ratings are down in the Spitcup Series.

Saw some asinine comment earlier, fans saying they'd pay money to see the races commercial free. If that was the case, every race would be sold out.

I think John is a bit biased, in that his spectrum is in the TV world. However, I do think that commercials might be a part of it but it's the same way on every program, isn't it (except the preemption thing, of course)?

A couple of years ago I read an article on TV advertising in the WSJ. It gave some interesting facts. Back in the 60's and a half hour sit com had about 5-6 minutes of commercials while today a thirty minute show will have between 10 and 12 minutes. In 1960 the average commercial was 60 seconds in length (one or two per commercial break) In the 80's they averaged 30 seconds in length and today they average 15 seconds, with many being only 10 seconds long. This means during a break we are subjected to as many as 8-10 commercials per break, which makes it seem even more like the race is three hours of commercials broken up by intermittent periods of racing.

All I can say is, Thank God for DVR. Every program I watch I try my best to DVR it and then watch it later in the evening and blow past the #!*&!!*& commercials.

 

[Tennessee Racing]

I heard on the news awhile back that the sponsors weren't happy with the DVR and they were trying to make it where you couldn't FF the commercials. I haven't heard anything else and doubt it will ever happen but if it does......you can forget skipping through all the boring crap. lol

 

[HoneyBadger]

I think John is a bit biased, in that his spectrum is in the TV world. However, I do think that commercials might be a part of it but it's the same way on every program, isn't it (except the preemption thing, of course)?

Commercials during the telecast have been around forever. Why's it just now becoming a problem?

Oh yeah, because we have Daly around telling us television is THE #1 problem with NASCAR (actually the Chase and boring ass racing caused by The Chase is).

 

[Mopardh9]

Commercials during the telecast have been around forever. Why's it just now becoming a problem?

Oh yeah, because we have Daly around telling us television is THE #1 problem with NASCAR (actually the Chase and boring ass racing caused by The Chase is).

Yep i agree, boring racing is the reason, commercials suck, but it is a fact of life most of us can live with. I watch most of my programs On Demand, less commercials and I can fast forward through them. As for the race, during commercials it gives me a chance to watch the game that is usually on opposite the race. As I have said before, I watch more of the football game the last few years than I do the race on Sundays, especially with the addition of the NFLs Redzone.

 

[John Galt]

Commercials during the telecast have been around forever. Why's it just now becoming a problem?

Oh yeah, because we have Daly around telling us television is THE #1 problem with NASCAR (actually the Chase and boring ass racing caused by The Chase is).

Blogs like The Daley Planet remind us of the "problem," but I think people realize that TV has become a vehicle of advertisement with a little bit of entertainment thrown in. The amount of commercial time on the tube has increased 100% since I began watching TV and 50% in the last 15 years or so. Then, throw in the fact that when the commercials come on, the sound volume goes up appreciatively because of an advertising ploy to draw our attention to them. (It has just the opposite affect on me. If I'm forced to watch at TV show life, I usually mute the sound during a commercial)

I think just generally Americans have about had it with excessive commercials and when you add in the factor that some are just plain an insult to the average person's intelligence, and they are shown over and over and over and over and over and... sometimes twice during the same commercial break, people put the blame for poor entertainment on the commercials.

I agree with your last paragraph. As I said, John is biased because he lives in, and writes about, the TV world. I think only a very naive personal would believe his theory that TV is the basic problem. I don't think the race fan is that shallow. Commercials play a part, but only a small one, IMNSVHO.

 

[buckaroo]

Commercials have always been the bane of the public, but they are also what allows us to watch our sports and shows without the PPV.

 

[SST55]

Remember B.B.King's "The thrill is gone"? Well it has for me. Racing today is mostly a boring follow the leader parade.

Seems a lot of races are won/lost on pit road by the crew. Hard for a small one car team and just using R. Gordon's as a example to hire top notch guys then install a fitness center, hire a "coach" and "efficiency" expert to examine tapes to find a 1/100 of a second that could be saved. Don't get me wrong, crews are very important.

Gone are the days of the Allison bros trying to break their hands on Yarbough's face, or the fantastic duels between King Richard and Pearson. Na$car has wussified the drivers, can't even say chit in victory lane without getting a fine. Most drivers today have the personality of a tea saucer, shallow.

In the interest of "parity" we now have literally cookie cutter cars that fit a common template on a cookie cutter chassis racing on cookie cutter tracks. Gone is the ingenuity of the back yard mechanic who has grease under his nails and enter the pencil neck geek with a pocket protector and laptop.
NO offense to pencil neck geeks with a pocket protectors and laptops.


You can no longer go to the junk ya,,,I mean Automobile Salvage Center and drag a car home, your new race car, without spending a ton of money.

Racing rims, C-clip eliminators, box of bent tubes to build a cage, fuel cell, safety hub steering wheel, racing seat, seat belts, helmet, firesuit w/ gloves and shoes, a decent tach and maybe guages. You've spent 5 grand by now and haven't touched the oil burning is that a rod knock motor?..

Then you have to buy fuel at the track @ 6 bucks a gallon and some cheap McCreary tires, also bought at a premium price 50-70 bucks each at the track.

The corker is getting tech'd the first time by some guy who doesn't know chit and tries to make up for his diminutive, hairless genitals by busting yours. But he does have a white shirt and pants with Na$car official on them. Perish the thought he might get a spot of oil or grease on them.

Just too damm expensive even at entry level classes to start. But if they ever start a convertible class in Mods( my fat butt will never fit thru a window again),,count me in.

 

[kkfan91]

Yep i agree, boring racing is the reason, commercials suck, but it is a fact of life most of us can live with. I watch most of my programs On Demand, less commercials and I can fast forward through them. As for the race, during commercials it gives me a chance to watch the game that is usually on opposite the race. As I have said before, I watch more of the football game the last few years than I do the race on Sundays, especially with the addition of the NFLs Redzone.

Despite the fact that there are only 11 minutes of actual play in a football gmae. So actually your watching a bunch of guys stand around far more then play so you get more racing in actuality

 

[Mopardh9]

Despite the fact that there are only 11 minutes of actual play in a football gmae. So actually your watching a bunch of guys stand around far more then play so you get more racing in actuality

Last time i checked there were 4 quarters of 15 minutes each.

 

[VaDirt]

Last time i checked there were 4 quarters of 15 minutes each.

True, but the clock continues to run while they just stand around. One play takes a few second, they stand around for 30-40 more seconds, and then they use another few seconds for another play. And on and on.

This is not to say I don't like football (I do) but he does have a point that there's ony a small percentage of actual action during a football game.

 

[Mopardh9]

Well i have to disagree on that, football is an action packed sport.

 

[VaDirt]

Well i have to disagree on that, football is an action packed sport.

It is, I didn't say it wasn't. But in reality, look at the the actual time of play comared to the time the clock runs. Each play, from the time the ball is snapped untill the time the whistle blows, usually lasts 10 or so seconds. Then they have another 40 seconds before the ball is snapped for the next play. Just lookin at numbers....

 

[Joniki]

Well i have to disagree on that, football is an action packed sport.

First and foremost I would rather watch racing over football. Second in order is watching paint dry....

 

[kkfan91]

Last time i checked there were 4 quarters of 15 minutes each.

they did a study on it and there is on average 11 minutes of actual play...11 minutes in 3 hours.

 

[blue92]

I know there are stock cars at the local tracks around America, and I think they are the saving grace of the auto racing sport, There, you can buy an old junker, fix it up, put in safety equipment and go racing at your local track. There's the Street Stock, Mini-Stock, and even the Fast and Furious (also known at Hornet class) racing. This is probably the only place where you don't have to buy specialized equipment in order to be competitive. However I'm sure I'm wrong on that.

Sadly you are wrong about that above, while it is easy to get an old junker to fix it up to get it race worthy is another story. Even those classes cost money to competitive and many of these guys have some sponsors helping them out. Good point about the disconnect, makes a lot of sense!

http://www.24hoursoflemons.com

To race here you have to start with a 500 dollar car, then add a roll-cage, fire extinguisher, and a fuel shut off switch. Teams can spend as much as you want on safety stuff and brake pads.