Any one watch wind tunnel last night?

blue92

blue92

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Miller stated why he wasn't a nascar fan. I agree with him 100% that the races are too long and to many just ride around being save till the last 30 laps. Robin is from open wheel dirt racing and there every lap counts so everyone charges the entire race and he said that's what missing in nascar, and I agree there too.

JMO, besides with the green movement I think nascar will be forced into changing a lot of what they have been doing over the last decade. I see them being forced to use less gas, removing the gas cans all together like other racing series for one. Changing the big 850hp carburated engines to more fuel efficient engines, and shortening the races.
 
Hey Blue92,
Haven't nascar drivers been "accused" of saving their stuff til' the end, for years now?
It makes you wonder though. Once in awhile a younger guy comes along and gets accused of being a bull in a china shop, because he wants to race hard every lap, and not cut any breaks. Then he ends up getting brow beat about needing to earn respect.

It's difficult to imagine a "greener" nascar. Possible? Sure, but it wouldn't seem right, to not hear those throaty engines.
MoMike
 
I used to be an opponent to shorter races. But as time goes by, I have become in favor of shorter races for the reasons Miller said. When you see many races where a driver runs his fastest lap of the race near the end of the race, that should be proof of that arguement.

When the 500-lap and 500-lap races were created, they were meant to be endurance races. Back then, engine reliability was an issue and it was a matter of who could make their cars run that distance and not get so far behind. These days, they could probably run these engines 1,000 miles or more non-stop. Since reliability is not an issue these days, the length of the races should be altered to make them more of a sprint to the finish instead of a jog to the finish. I watch some of these truck races and Nationwide races and they can go by so fast. I don't think the Cup races should be as short as those, but should be shorter for many reasons.
 
What I'd like to see

I'd like to see them go to the Local type Saturday night Races! Everybody that shows up gets to race.. Trophy dash... Eleminaton races.. .. then the big race would not be longer than two tanks of fuel..
Lots of action and points for EVERYTHING.. Except leading under yellows. That sisses me off everytime I see it.
Instead of 500 mile boring races from cars that are ALMOST equal..
Betsy:rolleyes:
 
I'm not opposed to some of the races being shorter. Not every race needs to be 500 miles, and we need fewer 1.5 mile cookie cutter tracks.

But the reason Miller is complaining is stupid. Comparing IRL to NASCAR is like apples to oranges. IRL is sprint racing. Typically shorter races means you need to run hard every lap. NASCAR is more like a marathon. You need to pace yourself, and save the best for last.
 
foehammer111 said:
I'm not opposed to some of the races being shorter. Not every race needs to be 500 miles, and we need fewer 1.5 mile cookie cutter tracks.

But the reason Miller is complaining is stupid. Comparing IRL to NASCAR is like apples to oranges. IRL is sprint racing. Typically shorter races means you need to run hard every lap. NASCAR is more like a marathon. You need to pace yourself, and save the best for last.
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So how's that working out? Ratings are dropping, attendance is dropping, and more and more people are being vocal about the race length. When there used to be 26 races a year and a lot of them not on TV, sure. But now with 36 races, and every one televised, that many 4+ hour marathons are losing peopls interest.
 
VaDirt said:
So how's that working out?
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A lot better than IRL and F1. Both of which could implode at a moment's notice.

I think you're just using that as an excuse to rant. Yeah, NASCAR has it's problems like any sport. But that doesn't mean you change the fundementals.

Sure, I'd like to see some races shortened, and some tracks replaced with others. But that doesn't mean we need to turn NASCAR into sprint races, or have elimination rounds. That's not what the sport is about. If you're going to change the core of the sport, why not just add guns to the cars and put dinosaurs on the track?

While we're at it, let's change the NFL so it's just like soccer. Let me know how that turns out.
 
foehammer111 said:
A lot better than IRL and F1. Both of which could implode at a moment's notice.

I think you're just using that as an excuse to rant. Yeah, NASCAR has it's problems like any sport. But that doesn't mean you change the fundementals.

Sure, I'd like to see some races shortened, and some tracks replaced with others. But that doesn't mean we need to turn NASCAR into sprint races, or have elimination rounds. That's not what the sport is about. If you're going to change the core of the sport, why not just add guns to the cars and put dinosaurs on the track?

While we're at it, let's change the NFL so it's just like soccer. Let me know how that turns out.
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I don't think you quite understand what I said. I did NOT call to change the fundamentals of the sport. It's just that there does NOT need to be 36 4+ hour marathons anymore. Every single race does NOT need to be 500 laps/miles.

You want to say I'm ranting, go ahead. But then so are you. "Don't change a thing, it's all good..."

I think you're overreacting to my stance that we don't need 36 500 mile races. That day has come and gone, the sport has changed. The core can remain the same, but a lot of races can (and should) be shortened. Like I said, 30 500 mile races are losing the interest of a great many people. Look in the stands and the numbers of viewers.
 
Another point is with the ever-increasing price of fuel in the country, it'd be a nice gesture to cut some races by a hundred miles, or laps, and declare how much fuel was saved....it'd probably be good publicity for the sport.
MoMike
 
foehammer111 said:
A lot better than IRL and F1. Both of which could implode at a moment's notice.

I think you're just using that as an excuse to rant. Yeah, NASCAR has it's problems like any sport. But that doesn't mean you change the fundementals.

Sure, I'd like to see some races shortened, and some tracks replaced with others. But that doesn't mean we need to turn NASCAR into sprint races, or have elimination rounds. That's not what the sport is about. If you're going to change the core of the sport, why not just add guns to the cars and put dinosaurs on the track?

While we're at it, let's change the NFL so it's just like soccer. Let me know how that turns out.
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The problem with F1 and the IRL is poor management not the length of the races. Splitting the Indy league didn't help much that's when I stopped watching. Plus a lot of people don't get VS, so where do they go to watch the races?

That's why VaDirt's point is good. Why 36 500 mile races? I also think what's bringing down viewers is the COT. What brought most long term fans to nascar was racing cars that were being driven on the streets of America every day. I like how safe this COT is but those things could be transfered to a more stock car. I always liked the rule the car manufactures had to race something folks could find on the show room floor.
 
foehammer111 said:
I'm not opposed to some of the races being shorter. Not every race needs to be 500 miles, and we need fewer 1.5 mile cookie cutter tracks.

But the reason Miller is complaining is stupid. Comparing IRL to NASCAR is like apples to oranges. IRL is sprint racing. Typically shorter races means you need to run hard every lap. NASCAR is more like a marathon. You need to pace yourself, and save the best for last.
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I saw the segment, and I think it's wrong to say he's complaining. He was simply explaining why he's not really a NASCAR fan.
 
ted@economy said:
Miller is a jerk. An anti Nascar jerk.
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Robin Miller is the smartest man around. Anyone who tells it like it is, and doesn't suck up to NASCAR is great. As much as I like Dave Despain, he does tend to tow the NASCAR line an awful lot.
 
VaDirt said:
Robin Miller is the smartest man around. Anyone who tells it like it is, and doesn't suck up to NASCAR is great. As much as I like Dave Despain, he does tend to tow the NASCAR line an awful lot.
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agreed
 
I have never heard him say anything positive about Nascar.He doesn't claim to like it.He may be smart and he may be a great guy , but he isn't a Nascar fan and I don't think he is being constructive.
 
ted@economy said:
I have never heard him say anything positive about Nascar.He doesn't claim to like it.He may be smart and he may be a great guy , but he isn't a Nascar fan and I don't think he is being constructive.
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Sooo, one must be a NASCAR fan for you to like him? Robin Miller knows more about racing, all racing, the history of racing, and the greats of racing than most everyone on TV. NASCAR fan or not.
 
I love 500 mile races. It's one of the biggest things that separates Cup from Nationwide and ARCA racing
 
blue92 said:
Did you see the segment?
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Nope,but I have seen him a hundred times on there.I saw he was hosting and didn't watch for that reason.You said he explained why he didn't like Nascar.Enough said.
 
HUTfan said:
I love 500 mile races. It's one of the biggest things that separates Cup from Nationwide and ARCA racing
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I love the ARCA races being 150 and 200 miles/laps. Once the inexperienced drivers wreck themselves out, you tend to see some of the best stock car racing television offers.

NASCAR should run 500 kilometer races and maybe some 350 mile races. 400 and 500 miles at some of these tracks is entirely too long.
 
If my ticket price gets reduced accordingly then I'd jump on the shortening the race bandwagon. Until then, no deal.

This past weekend I saw plenty of great racing although they may not have shown it on TV. I don't have a problem with the longer races. There's plenty of strategy that plays out over the entire race that I enjoy watching. It's not like going to my local short track when I attend a NASCAR event. I've got quite a bit of money invested in one of these weekends and I want to get my moneys worth.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
If my ticket price gets reduced accordingly then I'd jump on the shortening the race bandwagon. Until then, no deal.

This past weekend I saw plenty of great racing although they may not have shown it on TV. I don't have a problem with the longer races. There's plenty of strategy that plays out over the entire race that I enjoy watching. It's not like going to my local short track when I attend a NASCAR event. I've got quite a bit of money invested in one of these weekends and I want to get my moneys worth.
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I'm with you. I don't recall ever hearing anyone say they should shorten the Indy 500 to the Indy 200. If someone doesn't like the length of a race, tune in when you think it's nearing the end and then tune in. You might miss something, but what the heck, apparently you only think the end of the race is exciting.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
If my ticket price gets reduced accordingly then I'd jump on the shortening the race bandwagon. Until then, no deal.

This past weekend I saw plenty of great racing although they may not have shown it on TV. I don't have a problem with the longer races. There's plenty of strategy that plays out over the entire race that I enjoy watching. It's not like going to my local short track when I attend a NASCAR event. I've got quite a bit of money invested in one of these weekends and I want to get my moneys worth.
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I'd love to see 3 50 lap heat races where the top 8 qualify for the main, a last chance race, and a 100 lap final. All in the same day.
 
buckaroo said:
I'm with you. I don't recall ever hearing anyone say they should shorten the Indy 500 to the Indy 200. If someone doesn't like the length of a race, tune in when you think it's nearing the end and then tune in. You might miss something, but what the heck, apparently you only think the end of the race is exciting.
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Why is everyone jumping the gun on this? Nobody, and I mean nobody has called for the big races (indy, daytona, etc.) to be shortened. The main call, at least from my point of view, is having every single race 500 miles.
 
blue92 said:
The problem with F1 and the IRL is poor management not the length of the races. Splitting the Indy league didn't help much that's when I stopped watching. Plus a lot of people don't get VS, so where do they go to watch the races?

That's why VaDirt's point is good. Why 36 500 mile races? I also think what's bringing down viewers is the COT. What brought most long term fans to nascar was racing cars that were being driven on the streets of America every day. I like how safe this COT is but those things could be transfered to a more stock car. I always liked the rule the car manufactures had to race something folks could find on the show room floor.
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They stopped resembling their road car namesakes long before the CoT came along.
 
I can't stand this guy. I don't care if he doesn't like Nascar but he acts like people who do are stupid because they don't have the same likes as he does.
 
ted@economy said:
Nope,but I have seen him a hundred times on there.I saw he was hosting and didn't watch for that reason.You said he explained why he didn't like Nascar.Enough said.
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Robin Miller isn't the only American that feels the very same way about NASCAR. If fact I would say more are in tune with Miller than you could ever imagine. I'm a member of several car clubs and out of all of these clubs only a handful of members are nascar fans. They call nascar "National Association of same cars racing". They continually harass me for being a nascar fan, and complain all nascar knows how to do is turn left, and is boring as hell. Now ask yourself why would they think it's boring. Well because over half the race all they do is ride around turning left. So they reflect the same thing Miller says he dislikes about nascar.
 
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