dpkimmel2001
Team Owner
I'm going with the 85 wins as being a bigger accomplishment. I would have easily selected the 5 time consecutive championships under the old system but not under the Chase format. What do you think?
Bigger accomplishment - 5 Time Consecutive Champion or 85 wins?
- Thread starter dpkimmel2001
- Start date
G
Gordon_Fan24
Guest
I think they are both major accomplishments. They are both things that it will take a LONG time for someone else to accomplish. I know the Chase format is not popular, but I also do not think it is "easy" as most people think. If it is really "easy" why isn't other drivers taking advantage?
I haven't voted yet. I am torn! LOL
dpkimmel2001
Team Owner
I never meant to imply that it was an easy accomplishment. Not by any means. At the same time, I don't feel that it is as hard as it once was. We have seen Champions crowned since it's inception that would not have had a chance otherwise. The Chase's first year with Kurt Busch is a prime example.
G
Gordon_Fan24
Guest
Oh, don't take me wrong dp, I didn't mean you...I just meant that people in general think it is easier
You are right, Kurt Busch is a prime example of that for sure!
F
FlFlash
Guest
You all knew I'd go with the 85 WINS
I've seen to many Championships won becuase drivers/teams just went out ran consistent, stayed out of trouble, went to great lengths to get a damaged/wrecked car out to make a couple laps for points etc........there's nothing wrong with that if that's how you want to play it....Butt I'd rather stuff it in the wall in a ball of fire Trying to WIN!
I've seen to many Championships won becuase drivers/teams just went out ran consistent, stayed out of trouble, went to great lengths to get a damaged/wrecked car out to make a couple laps for points etc........there's nothing wrong with that if that's how you want to play it....Butt I'd rather stuff it in the wall in a ball of fire Trying to WIN!
M
Mopardh9
Guest
You can go out and run consistent, have agreat equipment, and even some really fortunate luck, but to win 5 Championships in a row is quite a feat. I don't care if it was under this stupid Chase format, it is still something monumental and I don't think any driver will ever do it again. I voted for the 5.
1
#17D500winner
Guest
5 times - IN A ROW.
The greatest drivers in Nascar history couldn't pull off that one.
85 wins? Been done.
Oh yeah...5 in a row modern era, same as 85 wins.
The greatest drivers in Nascar history couldn't pull off that one.
85 wins? Been done.
Oh yeah...5 in a row modern era, same as 85 wins.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
Agreed. A 10 race, 10 track champion isn't the same, and really depends on some great fortune to win 5 in a row. Under the old system, JJ has 2, Gordon has 6 and Carl has 1. The chase championship is so narrow, 1 mistake by one driver can send someone backwards enough to win. 2008 and 2010 are prime examples. Carl pushes his the wrong end of his teammate Greg Biffles bumper at Talladega and loses 100 points to JJ. Denny slides into Biffle and loses the chance to finish within 5 positions of JJ and win the championship.
Come to think of it, JJ should buy Biffle a mansion for being in the right place at the wrong time.
But JJ is a great driver with the patience to keep himself in the running and take advantage of others mistakes.
klemmabyna
Team Owner
when talking about great sports teams, they don't say how many games they've won. they talk about championships.
as much as i hate the chase, five championships surpasses number of wins. five in a row is even more impressive.
jmo
as much as i hate the chase, five championships surpasses number of wins. five in a row is even more impressive.
jmo
Benevolent One
Team Owner
They are both extremely impressive to me. However, I'd have to say winning 85 races is more impressive. I say this mostly because of the Chase format. Winning 5 in a row under the old system would have been an incredible feat. It's not Jimmie's fault that they changed the system. He's won under the rules that they provided. However, the old system was based on who was better throughout the whole year, and to be that guy for 5 straight years would have been absolutely amazing. Had someone done that, I would have said that that was more impressive than the 85 wins.
1
#17D500winner
Guest
I understand that the chase gets blamed for a alot of stuff but they all race under the same format and same rules.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
Chase vs full season is one that can be argued forever, but the Chase definately adds excitement. Winning 5 in a row is a truely historic accomplishment.
Greg
2014 RF YAHOO CHAMP Your leader
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2011
- Messages
- 23,614
- Points
- 1,033
The championships it is no contest imo, and Johnson is underrated.
If Gordon had won the last five he would be getting more credit for the same accomplishment.
I was an Earnhardt Sr fan but he would have gotten more respect too.
Nobody has been in JJs league during the time and I doubt anybody in the future will ever match the accomplishment. Dull or not the five in a row is nothing short of incredible.
Gordon is one of the greats a sure first year eligible HoF entry, but JJs record still impresses me more.
If Gordon had won the last five he would be getting more credit for the same accomplishment.
I was an Earnhardt Sr fan but he would have gotten more respect too.
Nobody has been in JJs league during the time and I doubt anybody in the future will ever match the accomplishment. Dull or not the five in a row is nothing short of incredible.
Gordon is one of the greats a sure first year eligible HoF entry, but JJs record still impresses me more.
StewartHaas-Gibbs Racing
Team Owner
85 wins has been done before and will be done again.
5 championships in a row though is a record that might not ever be done again or be beaten.
and I hate the Chase as well but Jimmie still won them, something no one else has been able to do in the last 5 years.
5 championships in a row though is a record that might not ever be done again or be beaten.
and I hate the Chase as well but Jimmie still won them, something no one else has been able to do in the last 5 years.
G
Gordon_Fan24
Guest
BINGO!
This is the point I was trying to make earlier. Everyone says that "Jimmie dominates the chase, it is not fair." Well someone needs to STEP UP and TAKE IT....everyone has the same opprotunity that is in good equipment.
My favorite driver is a prime example of this! In 2007 Gordon set back and watched Johnson rip the championship from his hands by winning FOUR IN A ROW in the chase! FOUR IN A DARN ROW! That is nearly half of the entire chase! Someone shoulda flipped the switch themselves and got up there and challenged for those wins!
R
robbybee
Guest
5 consecutive Rings is more impressive, IMO.
Jimmie-Chad has this thing dialed in. Has there ever been a better crew-chief/driver combo in the history of motorsports?
Those guys earned every one of those championships - and anyone would be a fool to bet against them winning another at some point.
But, this year is Pee Wee's year!
Jimmie-Chad has this thing dialed in. Has there ever been a better crew-chief/driver combo in the history of motorsports?
Those guys earned every one of those championships - and anyone would be a fool to bet against them winning another at some point.
But, this year is Pee Wee's year!
M
Mopardh9
Guest
Agreed. A 10 race, 10 track champion isn't the same, and really depends on some great fortune to win 5 in a row. Under the old system, JJ has 2, Gordon has 6 and Carl has 1. The chase championship is so narrow, 1 mistake by one driver can send someone backwards enough to win. 2008 and 2010 are prime examples. Carl pushes his the wrong end of his teammate Greg Biffles bumper at Talladega and loses 100 points to JJ. Denny slides into Biffle and loses the chance to finish within 5 positions of JJ and win the championship.
Come to think of it, JJ should buy Biffle a mansion for being in the right place at the wrong time.
But JJ is a great driver with the patience to keep himself in the running and take advantage of others mistakes.
IMO you can't say Driver X would have had this number of Championships under the old format, compared to the Chase. How do you know Johson for example, would of run the season the same way? The strategy is clearly different in both formats. For Johnson to demonstrate that he and his team are clearly far above eveyone else when it comes to winning under the Chase format says it all. Why can't other teams do the same thing? To win under any format 5 times in a row is quite and accomplishment that likely won't be achieved ever again.
M
Mopardh9
Guest
F
FlFlash
Guest
Do you really think 85 Wins will happen again?
Jimmie Johnson is closest at 55 he needs 30 more he better get on a run.
Mark Martin has 40 needs 45 more and is retireing soon.
Tony Stewart has 39 needs 46 more he's about to park it too.
Kyle Busch has 25 he's still young but 60 more?
Kurt Busch has 24 not gonna happen.
Sorry I just dont see 85 Wins Happening Again!
Jeff Gordon already has 4 Championships and is in contention for #5 this year!
I Know it would'nt be five in a row but 5 is 5.
Jeffrey00
Stamos Cozy
I am going with 85 wins and 4 championships > 54 wins and 5 championships.
Although I think Gordo gets his 5th this year.
Although I think Gordo gets his 5th this year.
G
Gordon_Fan24
Guest
I too think it will be a LONG while before someone catches the 85 wins. I think the only drivers that have a legit shot at it are Jimmie and possibly Kyle. Jimmie because he is the closest too it, Kyle because he probably has the most time left to do it....
SpeedPagan
The iRacing Guru
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2009
- Messages
- 19,354
- Points
- 1,033
This, so much this.
F
FlFlash
Guest
Well it took Jeff Gordon 18 years to do 85 Wins and J Johnson only Five years to do Five in a row........do the math.
This is the Dumbest comment I've ever made
M
MOEJOE
Guest
Your comment of how JJ should "get on a run", "got me going". SO here YOU GO!!!!!
Jimmie Johnson has NEVER placed worse than 5th any year in cup. NEVER
His stats go like this. 5,2,2,5,1,1,1,1,1. Making his finishing average 2.111.
No driver in history can hold a candle next to that. NOBODY.
Jimmie Johnson wins 15.341% of the races he competes in. 10 Years.
Jeff Gordon wins 13.240% of the races he competes in. 18 Years.
And..... as for how many races it took to get their first 10 wins are......
Jimmie Johnson (95)
Ryan Newman (95)
Jeff Gordon (96)
Kyle Busch (132)
Richard Petty (153)
Dale Earnhardt (179)
DO THE MATH.
But what's interesting is the years Gordon has been in cup vs how many years Johnson has been in Cup. It's almost like comparing apples to oranges for now, until both are retired.
F
FlFlash
Guest
More Stats
From Jimmie Johnson, Jeff Gordon and Cale Yarborough's Championship years:
JJ "Five Time"
Career Average Finish-12.0
06- 5 Wins 9.7-average finish
07- 10 Wins 10.8 average finish
08- 7 Wins 10.5 average finish
09- 7 Wins 11.1 average finish
10- 6 Wins 12.2 average finsh
JG "Four Time"
Career Average Finish-12.3
95- 7 Wins 9.5 average finish
**- in 96 Jeff finished a close 2nd with a lil luck could have been "Four Time"
97- 10 Wins 9.6 average finish
98- 13 Wins 5.7 average finish
01- 10 Wins* 11.2 average finish * I don't think thats correct???
Cale Yarborough "Three Time"
Career Average Finish- 12.0
76- 9 Wins 8.1 average finish
77-9 Wins 4.5 average finish
78 10 Wins 6.0 average finish
Just some stats to ponder. I find the similaritys in stats interesting it makes me Think The Chase format may not have affected the outcomes nearly as much as I thought......
BTW. for you younger folks Cale Yarborough was incredible, look at those Average finish's, to bad after 78 he decided to run a limited season.
From Jimmie Johnson, Jeff Gordon and Cale Yarborough's Championship years:
JJ "Five Time"
Career Average Finish-12.0
06- 5 Wins 9.7-average finish
07- 10 Wins 10.8 average finish
08- 7 Wins 10.5 average finish
09- 7 Wins 11.1 average finish
10- 6 Wins 12.2 average finsh
JG "Four Time"
Career Average Finish-12.3
95- 7 Wins 9.5 average finish
**- in 96 Jeff finished a close 2nd with a lil luck could have been "Four Time"
97- 10 Wins 9.6 average finish
98- 13 Wins 5.7 average finish
01- 10 Wins* 11.2 average finish * I don't think thats correct???
Cale Yarborough "Three Time"
Career Average Finish- 12.0
76- 9 Wins 8.1 average finish
77-9 Wins 4.5 average finish
78 10 Wins 6.0 average finish
Just some stats to ponder. I find the similaritys in stats interesting it makes me Think The Chase format may not have affected the outcomes nearly as much as I thought......
BTW. for you younger folks Cale Yarborough was incredible, look at those Average finish's, to bad after 78 he decided to run a limited season.
K
katiespapa
Guest
So who will be the next driver to win 5 in a row?
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
I know that looking down on pre-72 stats has become the norm, but Pearson was impressive racing against some of the best ever.
1966 - 15W, 6.4 AF. (42 of 49 races)
1968 - 16W, 5.8 AF. (48 of 49 races)
1969 - 11W, 5.3 AF. (51 of 54 races)
David never ran a full season in his entire career. He tried for the championship just 4 times by running just enough races to beat Petty. He ran 61 of 62 back in 1964 and finished well out of it in 3rd.
1966 - 15W, 6.4 AF. (42 of 49 races)
1968 - 16W, 5.8 AF. (48 of 49 races)
1969 - 11W, 5.3 AF. (51 of 54 races)
David never ran a full season in his entire career. He tried for the championship just 4 times by running just enough races to beat Petty. He ran 61 of 62 back in 1964 and finished well out of it in 3rd.
R
Restrictor Plate King!
Guest
Now I like a pile of victory's at the end of the season & or career as much as the next guy, being the leading race winner is a very good accomplishment BUT, there is NO post season award for winning the most races it's just an individual achievement worthy of making note especialy if those season victories included the Daytona 500, Aaron's 499, Coca-Cola 600, a road win, a victory at Bristol & the Brickyard. On the other hand say you only win 2 or 3 events & the Championship, now that's different. Your name is in stone, most folks don't really remmember who won the most races but they usually remember the Champion. So assuming Jeff Gordon & Jimmie Johnson retired from driving today Jeff could say he won all those races X-amount of times but then Jimmie could say yeah but I won 5 str8 driving titles, I was the **** for 5 years consecutively, half a decade, someone started & graduated High School during my tenure on top. I'm sorry, but that to me is a much bigger accomplishment than winning 85 races, no disrespect to Jeff Gordon. In the end though, they are both super driving achievements that only a very few have done...
AndyMarquisLive
I love short track racing (Taylor's Version)
Gotta go with 85 Cup victories... five championships is impressive, but it's in a ten race format.
F
FlFlash
Guest
Throw out the roadcourse Win and add together the Winners purse for any 3 of the other races named and you just made More than the Championship pays.
M
Mopardh9
Guest
No it isn't. They race 36 races, you still have to get to the Chase, so you can't say it is a ten race format, that makes no sense.
F
FlFlash
Guest
So under the old points system how many times has someone outside the top twelve at race number 27 won the Championship?
The whole Chase thing is just a made for tv BS story line the same drivers/teams would be in contention for the Championship no matter how the points system is set up. The best teams always rise to the top!
R
robbybee
Guest
^ agreed - except for the BS part! ^
I happen to like the chase. But facts are that nobody outside the Top Ten in points with 10 races to go is ever gonna win the CUP anyway, chase or no chase.
^I happen to like the chase. But facts are that nobody outside the Top Ten in points with 10 races to go is ever gonna win the CUP anyway, chase or no chase.
E
Eskimeaux
Guest
WWJGS?
It would be interesting to hear Jeff Gordon's answer to "Which is the greater accomplishment --- 5 Championships or 85 Wins?
Maybe interesting to hear 5 Time's answer also.
It would be interesting to hear Jeff Gordon's answer to "Which is the greater accomplishment --- 5 Championships or 85 Wins?
Maybe interesting to hear 5 Time's answer also.
M
Mopardh9
Guest
Yeh but getting yourself into position for the reset of the points means a lot, so you can't just say the last 10 races are what matters.Under the old system there were usually only 3, possibly 4 drivers that had a chance to win the Championship with 10 races to go. Now with this "playoff" crap even the 12th guy has a shot. I don't like it, never did, think like you said it is a BS, and it is gimmick. I'd like to see the current points system with no Chase.
dpkimmel2001
Team Owner
I agree with this statement completely. Right now, without the reset, we would have 6 drivers with a legitimate shot of winning the championship with 10 to go. Instead the points fairy has awarded someone like Denny Hamlin who would be 146 points back after Richmond to a standing of only 12 back. He would be more than 3 races behind in points with 10 to go without this reset. Somehow that just doesn't seem right to me.
AndyMarquisLive
I love short track racing (Taylor's Version)
Exactly. Last year, someone with a 300 point lead was moved to third in standings after the 26th race and the 11th place driver in points suddenly became the points leader and almost won the championship.
AndyMarquisLive
I love short track racing (Taylor's Version)
Same deal with Hamlin last year, he was several races back from Harvick and then magically got the points lead as a result of the Chase.
buckaroo
Here kitty, kitty, kitty
Ya gotta get over the new format. Changes happen in every sport and while there are the "purists" who will never get over the changes, the sport moves on. How many purist baseball fans like the DH? Wild Card playoff teams? Wild Card in any sport? We've seen it happen many times before when a team who doesn't have the best record win the title. Same for racing. But think about why the Chase was invented in the first place. It was the luckiest driver who won the title, certainly not the driver who won the most races. I can remember many years ago when well into the season, Dale Earnhardt, who had yet to win that season, told a reporter the he'd win the championship, even if he had to 2nd them to death. Now wouldn't that have made a few fans mad? And that was under the old system.