Boring racing...

[HoneyBadger]

To footnote the Kentucky threads.

I'm done blaming the car, track, length of races or whatnot for boring racing. Fact is, the truck series, the ARCA Series, and (when there aren't 10+ Cup drivers running a test session) the Nationwide Series races don't have these problems.

The remarks the drivers have made in past weeks, about everyone needing to be less aggressive at the beginning and middle of the races has sealed my conclusion. These drivers whine when someone races them hard, or doesn't let them pass, with 15 laps to do ("There's still 30 miles left in the race").

The reason I like Kevin Harvick, Brad Keselowski, Ryan Newman, used to like Tony, and used to like Kyle (he's a great driver, I just can't stand his general attitude), is because they show up to win the race. Those guys aren't happy with second place, especially when they have a car that can win. Sadly, they're the only ones.

The Chase is not like a football playoff system, where every regular season race matters. Hell, last year, the guy who won the championship and the guy who finished second both had ten top-ten finishes in the regular season. The third place guy, had eleven top-five finishes and 17 top-ten finishes.

In football, you either win, or you lose. You finish three points behind the other team, it's still a loss... winning is the only option. In NASCAR, you finish 15th in every race in the regular season and you can still make the Chase. Hell, now all you have to do is win a fuel mileage race or a Talladega crapshoot, finish 20th in points and you're still in the Chase.

What's happening is, by May and June, everyone's thinking about the Chase and they're not taking risks to win races. They're just trying to be conservative and points race. The result, for the fans, is that the racing generally sucks.

Next is the issue of blocking, drivers seem to have a problem with other drivers protecting their positions. The conventional wisdom is that we're running IndyCars over here in roundy-round world now and that the faster car must be allowed his position. Drivers say in their postrace interview that you have to ride around the first 450 miles then race the final 50.

As we've seen recently, the field is so strung out that there's no way people can race in the final 50 laps, until NASCAR throws an artificial caution.

I can't sit here and blame California Speedway or Indianapolis Motor Speedway for the races... both tracks have had incredible races and remarkable finishes. And I can't blame the car when we've seen several photofinishes this season (even at California).

NASCAR needs to seriously revamp the points system, put more emphasis on winning races, top-five finishes, leading the most laps, top-ten finishes and etc. And, for the love of god, get rid of the Chase.

As for the drivers -- Tony Stewart is the perfect example. There used to be a time when he raced hard and pissed people off, he was also winning a lot of races and winning championships. Now, he's lucky if gets more than one win a year.

The drivers are the ones in the cars. The track doesn't make everyone run single file (when every other series races two, three and four wide at the same track), the restarts don't cause crashes, and the cars (as we have seen) don't make it "impossible to pass". I don't see Kyle Busch, Kevin Harvick, Kurt Busch and a couple others out there having problems coming from 25th or worse to win races.

 

[chromehorn]

I'm impressed, that has to be the most well thought out complaint I've ever seen you post. Well done.

Your right, it seems that with the exception of the drivers you mentioned, everyone else is points racing and being too careful. Cup races have become pretty damn boring because of that.

 

[Greg]

Ok for the heck of it I will play a semi devils advocate:

David Pearson aka the "silver fox" was a master sandbagger, often hanging around 4th or 5th the first 400 miles.

Petty and Pearson often were just stroking in the day while guys like Buddy Baker ran fast and hard in the early stages, only to usually to have a Petty or Pearson beat them in the final stages.

I don't begrudge their wisdom, drive trains were more delicate or brittle and attrition was a bigger factor then.



But how about today's Jimmie Johnson, obviously he's boring for a majority of the races, but he seems to have something in reserve for the later stages and the chase.



There were the led foots like Cale Yarborough, and Earnhardt Sr. Cale pushed Jr Johnson's equipment past the point of breaking, until Jr figured out how to build a car to take it, then he won 3 titles in roll.
Childress had to do the same with Dale.

I was a Dale sr fan, and he almost always would fight for every inch. I remember how he couldn't believe other leaders letting a lapped car making it back to caution flag first, (under the old rules) cutting a break was not part of plans).


I think the two schools will always be part of the deal, and each one can succeed.


But your overall point is a good one, the way competition gets measured today is degraded with cheap phantom cautions. The point system doesn't reward winning or finishing near the front enough.


It should be almost mathematically impossible to win a title with no wins. I will give Nascar credit for the wildcards, since they make a winning a bigger part of making the chase now, but I don't like the chase format either.


I would like to see leader bonus points harder to earn, leading caution lap shouldn't count.


Cautions kill the competition in my opinion, it just a given that 80% of the time that a late race one will occur, and minimize the honest advantages gained by someone who has raced hard the whole race.


It is also a pseudo reset and an insult to intelligence. IMO a good race isn't necessarily measured by the margin of victory. I do like thrilling last laps, but I prefer good hard racing for the whole event, and to see tire management involved.


I don't like a race were tires do not fall off, or deteriorate. In an event were they do, and the cautions are limited, a driver is tested for his speed, and his patience or wisdom. Plus having a good mechanical set up, as it should be.

 

[Mopardh9]

Simply get rid of the Chase and keep the current ponts format, more emphasis is put on finishing well with this format. So what if a driver pretty much wraps up a Championship by September, I'd take that over the crappy races we have seen lately.

 

[#17D500winner]

I think Andy makes some good points but would like to ad that many times, hard racing leads to damaged/wrecked race cars and that cost alot of money - money which many teams do not have in abundance anymore.

So, I suspect owners are happy with their drivers simply riding around and bringing home a decent paycheque.

 

[MRM]

The problem is the races are too long, so the drivers will save their stuff until late in the race. How many times have we heard Driver X just ran his fastest lap of the race when there are only a few laps to go and it's the hottest part of the day. If you want hard racing and more guys racing for the win, shorten the races and make the wins worth something more regarding points.

 

[HoneyBadger]

The problem is the races are too long, so the drivers will save their stuff until late in the race. How many times have we heard Driver X just ran his fastest lap of the race when there are only a few laps to go and it's the hottest part of the day. If you want hard racing and more guys racing for the win, shorten the races and make the wins worth something more regarding points.

They do the same in 300 mile races at Loudon.

I don't think cutting the race distances will help these days. As we see nowadays, someone with a fast car can get from last to first in under 100 miles if they try hard enough. Cut the distance to 250 miles and they'll still wait until the final 20 laps to race hard.

How many times this season has a race only been exciting because a caution sets up a Green White Checkered finish?

As I mentioned, when the Cup drivers run 200 mile Nationwide races, those are the same way. How many people challenged Kyle for the win at Phoenix? How many people even tried?

Hell... look at the ARCA Race at Daytona -- 200 miles, comes down to the final laps and the second place car never even tried.

 

[Tennessee Racing]

It's almost like other than Kyle, Kevin and a couple others from time to time they actually don't care about winning.

 

[PettyBlue]

AJ wants to win so bad he can taste it.

 

[MoMike]

It's almost like other than Kyle, Kevin and a couple others from time to time they actually don't care about winning.

The problem lies with a drivers idea of "winning". For some it's a trophy, for others, it seems, just keeping the car visible, in the top 15 for the sponsor, is a win.
MoMike

 

[Mopardh9]

The problem lies with a drivers idea of "winning". For some it's a trophy, for others, it seems, just keeping the car visible, in the top 15 for the sponsor, is a win.
MoMike

Yep I agree!