Car Owners

[muggle not]

Even with the recent blown engines Hendricks seems to be the class of the owners with 25 top 5 finishes between Gordon and Johnson. Rouse is coming on strong with Martin, Kenseth, and Busch having good years and the "bugs" appear to be worked out of the new engines. Childress seems to be back-tracking. First he brings in Sauter who probably belongs in ARCA or ASA ..... and then Harvick and Gordon only have 6 top 5 finishes between the 2 of them. Is it the cars or the drivers.

 

[Gollum]

Childress seems to be having problems with horse power. It's bad to have your car push to the floor and have Hendricks, Rouch and Everham car just drive around you.

 

[24thunder]

Originally posted by muggle not@Sep 6 2004, 03:45 PM
Even with the recent blown engines Hendricks seems to be the class of the owners with 25 top 5 finishes between Gordon and Johnson. Rouse is coming on strong with Martin, Kenseth, and Busch having good years and the "bugs" appear to be worked out of the new engines. Childress seems to be back-tracking. First he brings in Sauter who probably belongs in ARCA or ASA ..... and then Harvick and Gordon only have 6 top 5 finishes between the 2 of them. Is it the cars or the drivers.

Seems like Jeff Burton is doing fine in that RCR #30 AOL Chevy,I'd say it's the drivers at RCR overall. :lol:

 

[RobbyG Fan]

IN ORDER:


Roush: They definitely have their isht together. Mark Martin is solid as always. Greg Biffle has shown flashes of improvement these last few months. Matt Kenseth is solid as always. Kurt Busch, again is solid. Carl Edwards has been very impressive in the #99.

Gibbs/Yates: Both are two car teams with each of their drivers in contention for the chase. Both are thinking of expanding to three cars, so it should be interesting to see who gets put in each seat. No word on the Yates side, Gibbs has Yeley but he is definitely not ready for Cup.

Hendrick: Johnson and Gordon are championship material. Labonte and Vickers are mid-packers at best. Labonte has few years ahead of him, and statistically the last few years are the worst. Vickers has not shown much at all, but time will tell.

Penske: Newman can be championship material, while Wallace will be in his last year. Who they put in that #2 will be a major decision. Gaughan hasnt shown much either, be it mechanical failures or getting caught up in crashes.

Ganassi: Two young and improving drivers in McMurray and Mears, with a driver (Marlin) in his back portion of his career. McMurray and Mears are a solid young duo to build around to bank the future of the stable.

DEI: One championship contender and one mid-packer. One is in his peak while the other is nearing it, slowly. The whole team as a whole seems off and on a lot. Consistency could stand for improvement.

RCR: Harvick is 15th in points, Burton and Robby Gordon are tied for 18th. Rumor has it Gordon is gone from the #31, but I dont really buy it now. Would Childress really can his potentially top driver? Harvick can easily fall below Gordon and Burton in standings, or both can pass Harvick on up. Burton is a major addition for RCR, and I see Gordon benefitting from it the most now and in the future. Burton has 3 top 15's in the #30 car in 3 races, something only 1 driver could ever do once in the past three seasons. Gordon's problem has always been consistency, but he is right there with Harvick on wins. Gordon has 1 less win than Harvick with RCR in one less season, essentially they are equal. Stability has always been a problem at RCR. If this team stays the same I wouldnt be surprised to see Burton become the #1 driver, with possibly Gordon giving him a run for it also.

 

[barelypure]

Gordon's problem has always been consistency, but he is right there with Harvick on wins.

2 years ago when Robbie and Kevin changed places, ok they didn't technically but they swapped cars and crews, Kevin has never recovered and Robbie has shown some improvement. It was done to try and improve Robbie without hurting Kevin. I wonder what might have been if they had left the teams alone.

 

[RobbyG Fan]

Originally posted by barelypure@Sep 8 2004, 03:55 PM

Gordon's problem has always been consistency, but he is right there with Harvick on wins.

2 years ago when Robbie and Kevin changed places, ok they didn't technically but they swapped cars and crews, Kevin has never recovered and Robbie has shown some improvement. It was done to try and improve Robbie without hurting Kevin. I wonder what might have been if they had left the teams alone.

You think so? I doubt it, I think it was to improve Harvick's performance. Robby's crew chief was Gil Martin at the time (on their 10 races together Robby already had a win and several top 10's) but Harvick got Martin and Robby got Hamlin in order to pair up Harvick with Martin and Barrier (these three were the group that were very sucessful in the Busch Series in the #2 car). After 1.5 season Hamlin went to #30 and Robby got Andrews as the crew chief, and Robby has been much faster this season than ever, just doesnt have the finishes to prove for it.

Just my opinion, but I feel Harvick is one of the most over-hyped drivers in the series. I dont know if its because he's in Earnhardt's old ride or because he was so successful right off the bat, but he has gotten worse each passing season. Maybe the reason he was so successful right off the bat was because of Earnhardt?




By the way, I forgot Evernham with Kahne and Mayfield.

1. Roush
2. Gibbs/Yates/Evernham
3. Hendrick
4. Penske
5. Ganassi
6. DEI
7. RCR
8. MBV/MB2
9. PE

 

[millermagic]

Seems like hendrich is having the same problem that rouche was having earlier this year.

 

[muggle not]

Originally posted by RobbyG Fan@Sep 8 2004, 02:35 PM
IN ORDER:


Roush: They definitely have their isht together. Mark Martin is solid as always. Greg Biffle has shown flashes of improvement these last few months. Matt Kenseth is solid as always. Kurt Busch, again is solid. Carl Edwards has been very impressive in the #99.

Gibbs/Yates: Both are two car teams with each of their drivers in contention for the chase. Both are thinking of expanding to three cars, so it should be interesting to see who gets put in each seat. No word on the Yates side, Gibbs has Yeley but he is definitely not ready for Cup.

Hendrick: Johnson and Gordon are championship material. Labonte and Vickers are mid-packers at best. Labonte has few years ahead of him, and statistically the last few years are the worst. Vickers has not shown much at all, but time will tell.

Penske: Newman can be championship material, while Wallace will be in his last year. Who they put in that #2 will be a major decision. Gaughan hasnt shown much either, be it mechanical failures or getting caught up in crashes.

Ganassi: Two young and improving drivers in McMurray and Mears, with a driver (Marlin) in his back portion of his career. McMurray and Mears are a solid young duo to build around to bank the future of the stable.

DEI: One championship contender and one mid-packer. One is in his peak while the other is nearing it, slowly. The whole team as a whole seems off and on a lot. Consistency could stand for improvement.

RCR: Harvick is 15th in points, Burton and Robby Gordon are tied for 18th. Rumor has it Gordon is gone from the #31, but I dont really buy it now. Would Childress really can his potentially top driver? Harvick can easily fall below Gordon and Burton in standings, or both can pass Harvick on up. Burton is a major addition for RCR, and I see Gordon benefitting from it the most now and in the future. Burton has 3 top 15's in the #30 car in 3 races, something only 1 driver could ever do once in the past three seasons. Gordon's problem has always been consistency, but he is right there with Harvick on wins. Gordon has 1 less win than Harvick with RCR in one less season, essentially they are equal. Stability has always been a problem at RCR. If this team stays the same I wouldnt be surprised to see Burton become the #1 driver, with possibly Gordon giving him a run for it also.

Not too much to argue with there. I am not a J. Gordon fan but he is still the best driver in Nascar nowadays. Everything else is pretty much on target.

 

[dragonlady424]

Good read, RobbyGFan!!!!! Honest, facts that ya just
can't argue much about!!! I enjoy reading that kind of stuff.
Thanks!!!!!!!

 

[Eagle1]

Originally posted by 24thunder+Sep 7 2004, 09:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (24thunder @ Sep 7 2004, 09:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-muggle not@Sep 6 2004, 03:45 PM
Even with the recent blown engines Hendricks seems to be the class of the owners with 25 top 5 finishes between Gordon and Johnson. Rouse is coming on strong with Martin, Kenseth, and Busch having good years and the "bugs" appear to be worked out of the new engines. Childress seems to be back-tracking. First he brings in Sauter who probably belongs in ARCA or ASA&nbsp; &nbsp; ..... and then Harvick and Gordon only have 6 top 5 finishes between the 2 of&nbsp; them. Is it the cars or the drivers.

Seems like Jeff Burton is doing fine in that RCR #30 AOL Chevy,I'd say it's the drivers at RCR overall. :lol: [/b][/quote]
Okay if you want to use that for an argument, Carl Edwards is running really good in the 99. Was it car or driver?

 

[24thunder]

Originally posted by Eagle1+Sep 8 2004, 07:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Eagle1 @ Sep 8 2004, 07:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by 24thunder@Sep 7 2004, 09:40 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-muggle not

@Sep 6 2004, 03:45 PM
Even with the recent blown engines Hendricks seems to be the class of the owners with 25 top 5 finishes between Gordon and Johnson. Rouse is coming on strong with Martin, Kenseth, and Busch having good years and the "bugs" appear to be worked out of the new engines. Childress seems to be back-tracking. First he brings in Sauter who probably belongs in ARCA or ASA    ..... and then Harvick and Gordon only have 6 top 5 finishes between the 2 of  them. Is it the cars or the drivers.

Seems like Jeff Burton is doing fine in that RCR #30 AOL Chevy,I'd say it's the drivers at RCR overall. :lol:

Okay if you want to use that for an argument, Carl Edwards is running really good in the 99. Was it car or driver? [/b][/quote]
It was the driver,did U notice that Jeff Burton and the #99 car were on an upswing the last 2 or 3 weeks together?IMHO it's been Jeff Burton all along,He' sonly been hampered by Rouch Racing's storied blown-up engine trgedies in recent years.

 

[EatMorePossum]

Roush has always had A list and B list teams. They might change from season to season, but anyone who remembers when he first went to three teams knows it. Mark Martin was the star of the show, and depending on which way the wind was blowing either wally Dallenbach or Ted Musgrave or Johnny Benson was expected to scuff tires, test setups and basically be a R&D team.

For awhile Mark and Jeff Burton got the top stuff while the others did the grunt work. Then for a season or three it was Jeff and Matt on top. That's just how Roush does business. Mark understands that; that's why he never griped when it came his turn to do the dirty work. The philosophy is, all things for the good of the overall organization. Your turn will come; be patient.

Anyone wanna try and argue that Hendrick doesn't do the same thing? Just talk to Terry Labonte or Joe Nemechek for awhile - they'll tell you.

Any successful multi-car team does it to greater or lesser degrees. Especially if it's three or more cars. Gibbs balances things pretty evenly, as does Evernham until Bill enters. Bill's R&D all the way. Great qualifying runs, runs up front awhile, then BAM! Two tires on a pit stop, fades to 23rd, hey somebody make sure and tell mayfield's crew chief that they'll need four on that last stop.

Then again, there are some around here who don't believe teammates work together. Who think that Driver B is far above running a little interference for Driver A. OK, whatever.

If I were in a position to be offered a ride with any owner on the circuit, and my top priority was a fair shake with my teammates as far as resources go, I'd go with Evernham. But that's just me most likely.

 

[RobbyG Fan]

Originally posted by EatMorePossum@Sep 8 2004, 08:10 PM
Roush has always had A list and B list teams.&nbsp; They might change from season to season, but anyone who remembers when he first went to three teams knows it.&nbsp; Mark Martin was the star of the show, and depending on which way the wind was blowing either wally Dallenbach or Ted Musgrave or Johnny Benson was expected to scuff tires, test setups and basically be a R&D team.

For awhile Mark and Jeff Burton got the top stuff while the others did the grunt work.&nbsp; Then for a season or three it was Jeff and Matt on top.&nbsp; That's just how Roush does business.&nbsp; Mark understands that; that's why he never griped when it came his turn to do the dirty work.&nbsp; The philosophy is, all things for the good of the overall organization.&nbsp; Your turn will come; be patient.

Anyone wanna try and argue that Hendrick doesn't do the same thing?&nbsp; Just talk to Terry Labonte or Joe Nemechek for awhile - they'll tell you.

Any successful multi-car team does it to greater or lesser degrees.&nbsp; Especially if it's three or more cars.&nbsp; Gibbs balances things pretty evenly, as does Evernham until Bill enters.&nbsp; Bill's R&D all the way.&nbsp; Great qualifying runs, runs up front awhile, then BAM!&nbsp; Two tires on a pit stop, fades to 23rd, hey somebody make sure and tell mayfield's crew chief that they'll need four on that last stop.

Then again, there are some around here who don't believe teammates work together.&nbsp; Who think that Driver B is far above running a little interference for Driver A.&nbsp; OK, whatever.

If I were in a position to be offered a ride with any owner on the circuit, and my top priority was a fair shake with my teammates as far as resources go, I'd go with Evernham.&nbsp; But that's just me most likely.

Good post, and basically on point with everything. I never really thought about the Roush business in that way, but as you put it, it does make sense. Not sure if they really work that way, but it does make sense.


RCR is intriguing to me in that aspect, was the #30 car R&D all along? Or was it drivers who couldnt mesh well with the team and crew chief? Whats with Harvick's backslide? For some reason I cant see Harvick accepting being the #2 or even maybe the #3 driver in a stable. Both Jeff and Robby have been outperforming Harvick the last 10 races or so. Im curious to how it will play out.

 

[slick-nick]

The best driver at RCR right now, performance wise, is Jeff Burton. Kevin is second, and Robby comes in a distant third. The guy has talent, yes, but he is not a team player at all. Just ask Kevin or Jeff, they'll tell ya how much he has cost them during a race this year. Robby blocks his own teammates and for what? Nothing at all. He blocked Kevin numerous times at Bristol last month, and also costed him a race at Rockingham. Robby also blocked Jeff while running second at Bristol and let me tell ya, Jeff was not pleased at all. Robby can win road races, yes, but he hasn't brought much of anything else to RCR. I don't expect him to be there after 2005, possibly 2004.

Just my opinion.

 

[RobbyG Fan]

Originally posted by slick-nick@Sep 9 2004, 02:19 AM
The best driver at RCR right now, performance wise, is Jeff Burton. Kevin is second, and Robby comes in a distant third. The guy has talent, yes, but he is not a team player at all. Just ask Kevin or Jeff, they'll tell ya how much he has cost them during a race this year. Robby blocks his own teammates and for what? Nothing at all. He blocked Kevin numerous times at Bristol last month, and also costed him a race at Rockingham. Robby also blocked Jeff while running second at Bristol and let me tell ya, Jeff was not pleased at all. Robby can win road races, yes, but he hasn't brought much of anything else to RCR. I don't expect him to be there after 2005, possibly 2004.

Just my opinion.

I disagree. Big time. Over the last 6 races, Jeff Burton is 13th, Robby Gordon is 14th, and Kevin Harvick is 16th.

Over last 2 months:
Harvick: 14, 10, 13, 32, 8, 6, 16, 24, 28 -> avg finishing pos. = 16.8
Gordon: 19, 17, 25, 7, 22, 16, 25, 12, 9 -> avg finishing pos. = 16.8

Looks pretty even to me.


About the team player thing, I think we all know that Kevin Harvick is the least team player you will find out on the track. Kevin needs 5 bonus points at Watkins Glen, what happens? Robby slows down and lets Kevin lead a lap. Kevin is battling for the win at Indy. Robby blocks everyone from second place down. Robby is two laps down and ahead in the lapped car line of Kevin who is one lap down. Robby lets Kevin ahead of him. Now look at two weeks ago at Bristol, Kevin was two laps down and first in the lapped car line and Robby was one lap down, and even with Richard Childress's orders Kevin refused to let Robby pass to allow him the lucky dog, even though Kevin was getting out of the car the next caution.

Kevin Harvick = overrated. My opinion though.

 

[slick-nick]

Originally posted by RobbyG Fan@Sep 9 2004, 09:53 AM
Now look at two weeks ago at Bristol, Kevin was two laps down and first in the lapped car line and Robby was one lap down, and even with Richard Childress's orders Kevin refused to let Robby pass to allow him the lucky dog, even though Kevin was getting out of the car the next caution.&nbsp;

Kevin Harvick = overrated.&nbsp; My opinion though.&nbsp;

Yeah and the reason behind that? Because Robby made it hard as hell for Kevin to pass him under green. Richard said it himself.. let him race for it. Robby was a wild son of a gun at Bristol and if I were apart of NASCAR, I would of parked him. But they were already thinking that anyways..

 

[freestyleperdue]

I posted this message on the forum many, many moons ago, Jeff Burton blew his chances of wining when he blammed Frankie Stoddard for his lack of wins. Jeff, who crewed you to all those wins? Who has crewed you to all your wins since you fired Frankie? Oh! I forgot. You haven't had a win since then, have you? So for me to think Jeff Burton is the top driver at RCR is a hard stretch.

 

[Tabasco]

Hey Freestyle how have you been? It has been many moons since you were here. :lol: How's the boy? Tell him to stop by some time.

 

[steveluvs3]

Originally posted by barelypure@Sep 8 2004, 02:55 PM

Gordon's problem has always been consistency, but he is right there with Harvick on wins.

2 years ago when Robbie and Kevin changed places, ok they didn't technically but they swapped cars and crews, Kevin has never recovered and Robbie has shown some improvement. It was done to try and improve Robbie without hurting Kevin. I wonder what might have been if they had left the teams alone.

When they switched robby got all the old 3 cars and tecnology, so u know that equipment was winning material, too bad kevin and robby can't handle it.

 

[Gollum]

Originally posted by steveluvs3+Sep 12 2004, 05:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (steveluvs3 @ Sep 12 2004, 05:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-barelypure@Sep 8 2004, 02:55 PM

Gordon's problem has always been consistency, but he is right there with Harvick on wins.

2 years ago when Robbie and Kevin changed places, ok they didn't technically but they swapped cars and crews, Kevin has never recovered and Robbie has shown some improvement. It was done to try and improve Robbie without hurting Kevin. I wonder what might have been if they had left the teams alone.

When they switched robby got all the old 3 cars and tecnology, so u know that equipment was winning material, too bad kevin and robby can't handle it. [/b][/quote]
So what your saying that J. Gordon , Wallace, Jarrett, Martin and many,many more that have gone through long dry spells or still are. Can,t handle it. :lol:

 

[RobbyG Fan]

Originally posted by steveluvs3+Sep 12 2004, 01:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (steveluvs3 @ Sep 12 2004, 01:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-barelypure@Sep 8 2004, 02:55 PM

Gordon's problem has always been consistency, but he is right there with Harvick on wins.

2 years ago when Robbie and Kevin changed places, ok they didn't technically but they swapped cars and crews, Kevin has never recovered and Robbie has shown some improvement. It was done to try and improve Robbie without hurting Kevin. I wonder what might have been if they had left the teams alone.

When they switched robby got all the old 3 cars and tecnology, so u know that equipment was winning material, too bad kevin and robby can't handle it. [/b][/quote]
And thats exactly what it is, old cars and old technology. What worked in 1999 wouldnt and doesnt work in 2004.