Carl Long Penalty Upheld

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83WynnsOlds

Guest
This is from Carl's wife as posted on www.carl-long.com:
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We will go into detail later...but to make a long story short, nothing has changed!! We are all suspended from the Sprint Cup garage for 12 races. He works on the 34 CUP team so this is going to affect us in a BIG way!! We ARE responsible for the fine!! If the fine is not paid, it does revert back to the owner. We will issue a statement a little later today. There is absolutely nothing positive that came out of this hearing today! We are still trying to process everything and trying to see what our options are now. Thank You everyone for your support!!
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Call NASCRAP to complain. 386-253-0611 I'm going to call every 15 min. to complain today.
Lets flood their phone lines and show them how we feel.
CALL 386-253-0611. This is the corporate office for NASCRAP
 
You know while I really feel for Carl, and was also kinda hoping it would be reduced, I also understand and agree with the Appeals Commission;

"While it is tempting to consider penalties that this driver and team can more-readily bear, the sport would not be well served by having a sliding scale of penalties calibrated to a given team or member's resources," the commission said. "Penalties of this magnitude for this type of infraction are warranted in the NASCAR Sprint Cup Series."
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One thing I think is funny about this stuff is the way the media reports and portrays things to slant and tilt for the most sympathy of the general public.

For instance all we've heard from the media is that Carl's motor was only .17 of an inch over and what a small amount that is so how unfair the penalty is to him.
I haven't read anyplace in the media where they have pointed out that the engine size rule actually states the MAXIMUM size for Cup motors is 350 cu. in. Carl's motor was NOT .17 over size, it was in fact 8.17 cu. in oversized!

Just as NASCAR allows 5mph maximum over on pit road speed THEN they penalize you, the give 8 cu.in. leeway on the engines and his motor still exceeded that.

I also can't believe that Carl honestly thought he could use a 20 year old penalty to Jr Johnson as an expectation to having his penalty reduced.

It's been made extremely clear in recent years, especially since the COT has been introduced that NASCAR has ramped up the penalties and would continually go higher to dissuade CC, and team owners from violating the rules.

To think that Earnie Elliot should somehow be responsible is a ridicules expectation unless he bought a motor that was sealed by Earnie, but that was not the case so Earnie or no one else has any idea if they could have done something else to the motor that may have caused this problem.

Ultimately it is the CC's and car owners responsibility to make sure everything they put on that car meets the rules requirements.

Bottom line while I feel for him as I understand that dream and the addiction if he can't afford the penalty he should make damn sure he is in compliance or not play in the deep end of the pool, step back to the levels of racing you can afford to compete in.
Even at the short tracks there are rules.
 
From the Cup series rulebook....


The total cubic inch displacement must not be less than the minimum
engine size of 350.000 cubic inch displacement or greater than the maximum
engine size of 358.000 cubic inch displacement.
The formula for determining the cubic inch displacement is as follows: Bore
x Bore x Stroke x .7854 equals the cubic inch displacement of each cylinder.
The cubic inch displacement of each cylinder added together will determine
the total cubic inch displacement of the engine. Unless otherwise permitted
by race Officials, a maximum cooling down time of two (2) hours from the
official completion time of the Race will be permitted prior to measuring the
total cubic inch displacement.
 
Camp65 said:
From the Cup series rulebook....


The total cubic inch displacement must not be less than the minimum
engine size of 350.000 cubic inch displacement or greater than the maximum
engine size of 358.000 cubic inch displacement.
The formula for determining the cubic inch displacement is as follows: Bore
x Bore x Stroke x .7854 equals the cubic inch displacement of each cylinder.
The cubic inch displacement of each cylinder added together will determine
the total cubic inch displacement of the engine. Unless otherwise permitted
by race Officials, a maximum cooling down time of two (2) hours from the
official completion time of the Race will be permitted prior to measuring the
total cubic inch displacement.
Click to expand...

So as Ray E said on Sirius radio yesterday, he had 8 cu. in. to play with, anything within that is legal, anything over that is illegal.
 
I'd like to address one other thing too I just heard on the radio someone complaining that Carl hadn't qualified with that motor and this was so unfair because he hadn't raced it.

I don't know what the current fee is, I think it's $3500.00 entry fee per car, if they go to a back up car, they pay that fee again.
When you show up at the track you have to go through inspection before you can take your car out on the track.
Once you present that car and all it's components you are presenting it as ready to race. Once you present and declare the car as race ready anything found on that car to be illegal will draw a penalty.
So it doesn't matter if the qualified, he had gone out on the track to practice so the car had been presented.
Also Carl had the option of just loading everything up and going home, but he decided to change engines at the track, and it is in the rules that if you change motors NASCAR takes the motor you pulled out and inspects it. Nothing was done here that isn't done every week at every track to every team that is in that situation.
 
The real answer instead of *****ing because NASCAR enforced a rule that has been in existence and enforced for years, and is definitely 1 of the 3 big no no's in the rules, why don't you all open them check books and send Carl what ever you can to help him pay his fine?

If 10,000 people sent $20.00 he'd have enough.

Are there 10,000 Carl Long fans out their that will put there money where their mouth is?

A few years ago when he totaled his car and had nothing to race I sent a bigger donation than that and enough others did too so he could buy another car.
 
While I understand that the engine was too big, I do think that NASCAR was really steep on the penalty. If the aim of Long was clearly trying to take advantage and win his way into the All-star race then I would understand the penalty. The fact is, the man loves to race. He spends everything he has to try to race and hopefully catch the eyes of someone to further his career. A real racer in my opinion, he is probrably one of a handful who could tear his own car apart and put it back together in order to race. He even drives the hauler to the race, and probrably cooks his own chicken and rice on race weekends. He is a throwback, a Jimmy "Smut" Means or Dave Marcis type. Do whatever it takes to race. Should he be penalized for a mistake, yes.
Should NASCAR tear apart someones career, I think not. He's not Hendrick or Gibbs, so lets get him.
 
not really sure what to think on this one, it is my understanding that the man doe's not have nearly the kind of reasources that any of the big teams have, therefore he may not have known the accurate-ness of his equipment. he's a single car effort struggling to make it in this deal. it is my opinion that NASCAR was a little harsh on him, I think a 6 race penalty would have sufficed just fine & then still let the man perform his day job of working on that pit crew. instead they have broken him, at the very least the team he works for should allow him to work at the garage fulltime till his suspension ends so that he can sustain his family...
 
Carl's fans have raised almost 6k on his website.
My hat is off to David Reuiteman for donating $5,500.
 
I feel for Carl, I really do, but what I'm reading here is a form of socialism from many people. Just like our own tax system, from those who can to those who can't just isn't right in my world. As I've seen someone write, if you want to race with the big boys, you gotta use their rules. It's a damned shame that he will be forced to stay away from him job, but such is the rules. I'm sure that he can find something close by in another series that would allow his work to be used, basically skirting the rules.

What's the saying? If you can't fight with the big dogs, get off the porch. Something like that.
 
I'd like to know how they came up with the 200k fine. Do they just pluck it out of the air? How is the fine determined and is a illegal shock worse than a illegal deck lid or worse than a illegal manifold?
 
SST55 said:
I'd like to know how they came up with the 200k fine. Do they just pluck it out of the air? How is the fine determined and is a illegal shock worse than a illegal deck lid or worse than a illegal manifold?
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Not sure how the came up with the $200k, but when it comes to the rule book the engine is the sacred cow. That's the one big no-no that everyone can expect to get nailed big time for. Richard Petty got caught with an over-sized engine once, and he too got a record fine at the time.

But NASCAR did the right thing. It's a different world now then 30 years ago. NASCAR is the biggest sport in the US behind only the NFL. How would it look if they gave Long a break on the fine because he's a little fish, and didn't do the same for Jeff Gordon? Their rulebook needs to have some teeth, otherwise the integrity of the sport is called into question.

I feel for him, but even if it wasn't intentional, he was caught. Thus he must pay the price. I'm glad the other teams/drivers are helping him get back on his feet, but as the police of the sport NASCAR can not budge in their judgement.
 
The fact is a couple years ago when the COT first came out they said there was NO GREY AREA and the fines and points would continually ramp up until the people in the garage decided they were serious.
When they got Mikey for 100 points and $100,000 in Daytona they made it clear it would get worse.
At that time they said if people thought that fine was big just wait until the first person showed up with an illegal motor because it would be $250,000.00 and 200 points, this was 2 years ago, so it should not be surprise.
NASCAR has been so strict on engines over the years the last penalty issued was in 1991 to Jr Johnson and 18 years ago they received a 12 race suspension and a very considerable cash fine for that day and time.
Over sized motors have always been the the biggest #1 NO NO, followed closely by messing with the tires, and thirdly by fuel. That is why Mikey's fine was so stiff 2 years ago.

There is no excuse, it does not matter what series Carl raced in, or if it was little local short tracks, HE would be solely responsible.
Ultimately when he presents that car to go through pre race inspection he is saying it is legal to race.
Funny thing when it first happened and he told it was an underpowered motor and the changed cams and stuff to help it. Once he opens that motor up he, and no one else is responsible for it being legal or not. How in the heck can anyone say Ernie Elliot is responible when he has no clue what's happened to that motor in Carl's shop once it left his possession?

If you don't know how to gauge your motor to know if you've done something to make it illegal, maybe you shouldn't be working on it.

You have 8 cu. in. to play with, from 350.00 cu. in. to 358.00 cu. in. anything over that is illegal, I really don't know what's so hard to understand.
It appears to me because it was and older underpowered motor he worked on it to push the maximum cu.in and miscalculated.
 
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