Caution clocks and timed races

Discussion in 'NASCAR chat' started by dpkimmel2001, Dec 19, 2016.

  1. dpkimmel2001

    dpkimmel2001 Team Owner

    I think it's a question of when and not if.

    I wouldn't be surprised at all to see the Caution Clock implemented this season in NASCAR's Premier Series, formally known as Cup. There's been too many questions about this in the NASCAR Fan Council surveys this season.

    I think timed races are to follow in 2018 to address the short attention span crowd. Maybe not for the Daytona 500 and the 600 at Charlotte but I think the rest will be under some sort of time limit.

    Both of these topics have been the subject of discussion recently on SiriusXM NASCAR Radio. Normally when they drive a topic, it's only a matter of time until it's announced.
  2. R Clarence

    R Clarence Team Owner

    As previously predicted, it's only a matter of time.
  3. LouieLouie

    LouieLouie Team Owner

    Ugh I hope not but I'm affraid you're right.
    It seemed like this year there was an unofficial caution clock of every 60 mins. After 60 mins, the first sign of trouble or water bottle and the caution was thrown.
    That and there generally seemed to be a half time caution each race so I wouldn't be surprised if they came out with that this year too.
  4. Simple Fan

    Simple Fan First or Last

    I wasn't a fan of the caution clock when it was announced but after seeing it in the Truck series it wasn't all that bad. A lot of the time it didn't factor into the race with real cautions usually happening before the clock expired. I think it would be something they should try in the Xfinity Series this year before it moves up to Cup though. Not a fan of timed races though, I'd rather not have a 400mile race decided at 350 miles because the time ran out.
  5. ToyYoda

    ToyYoda Team Owner

    The caution clock has been in Cup for awhile, just in the form of a hot dog wrapper or water bottle or balloon or loose banner.
  6. ChexOrWrex

    ChexOrWrex Ya gotta wanna

  7. Revman

    Revman Pure Talent

    Slightly off topic, but I have never understood why a wrapper on the grill didn't necessitate a caution.

    On's coming, and I will hate it--but I will live with it. This sport is too awesome for anybody to screw up IMO. I loved the 600 and Indy....the dominance in cars so close fascinates me.
  8. From my perspective Nascar jumped the shark a longtime ago and moved from being a sport to quasi serialized drama so a few extra gimmicks to go along with the shameless bogus cautions, pit road speeds, free passes and the illegitimate method it uses to crown a champ won't damage what is already irretrievably broken. It is self evident that Nascar is desperate and throwing spaghetti against the ceiling hoping against all hope that something will stick and improve its fortunes but so far all its gimmicks are to no avail. I don't think these latest perspective initiatives will add any young fans to the series but I could easily be wrong.

    I don't think there is much Nascar can do to run off the die hard fans as they want their Nascar and are more than willing to overlook the abundance of incongruities that abound each Sunday. It is kind of like going to a diner that used to be really, really good but over the years has changed management, products, menus and service for the worst but you still patronize the place because it is familiar, comfortable and a lot of your friends are present. Before anyone accuses me of taking a shot at others I was the person attended races faithfully even though I was less than enthused but I didn't want to be the guy that broke up what we had all been doing since our 20's. Finally I spoke up after one particularly bad Bristol night race and said "Guys, I can't do this anymore" and I was ready to get raked over the coals but it didn't happen. We all decided to keep doing things together but not revolving around Nascar.

    Since that time we have rode our motorcycles out west, gone out to DC, rode the Dragon's Tail and Hwy 60 through Suches GA, rode and drove the Blue RIdge Parkway multiple times, went to Land Between the Lakes in Kentucky and Tennessee, visited TN many times, gone to the Biltmore Museum in Asheville NC and a host of many other things. For us life was just peachy after Nascar as we were able to pick things to do that always provided fun, challenges and overall value for our time.
  9. 29-4

    29-4 Team Owner

    The day they implement caution clocks this will be my last day as a NASCAR viewer. It destroys the very basis of what racing is supposed to be about. I'd hate to do it, but I guess I'd have a lot more Sunday afternoons free. I can't abide such fundamental destruction of what the sport is about.
  10. dpkimmel2001

    dpkimmel2001 Team Owner

    For a second there, I thought you were talking about the Chase.

    I'm getting to the point where this kind of a change really doesn't matter much to me any more. Outside of cars going fast, this sport is a shell of what it was when I started following it. A once thriving sport continued that path until someone decided to make major changes to the sport in 2004. Since that point, they continue to make changes trying to get it back to a thriving sport once again. Brain France and Co. are kinda like the guy that set out to build the better mouse trap. They're still trying.
  11. Revman

    Revman Pure Talent

    I have grown to have a deep respect for your posts. You think. I like that.

    I am captivated by my 18 year old's attitude toward NASCAR. He is in that place. Not quite independent, but sure as hell not wanting to hang with Dad 24/7. He went off to college, and the wife and I planned Phoenix without him. Plans were set. He calls. "Dad, I can make this work. Can I go? This is the Chase. I can't miss it." It would be easy for me to claim that he is mimicking his Dad. He is too smart for that. He loves the stuff. Yeah, he will take his shot at NASCAR, but the point is that the kid is compelled to watch/attend. Is this about how we watch as I have mentioned? Probably. IMO, the idea of "great racing" as I have come to understand it from this board might be dead without artificially imposed "gimmicks." As @aunty dive has indicated, you cannot unlearn physics.
    Skoalbandit33 likes this.
  12. Revman

    Revman Pure Talent

    But at the end of the day, they crank the motors and they go fast. At some point, this was no longer enough. Sad, but perhaps a sign of what we are as a society. Never enough.
    dpkimmel2001 likes this.
  13. 29-4

    29-4 Team Owner

    While I hate the Chase, it is something outside of what occurs on the track (though it does have an effect on the racing we see to some extent). The caution clock is a far more fundamental change. As I've mentioned in other threads, it's the equivalent of the NFL deciding that the score at the end of each quarter will be tied until the fourth quarter, no matter which team has done better to that point. The idea of a caution clock is just as absurd as this idea sounds. You might as well shorten races to fifty laps sprints if this is implemented, because the first 3/4ths of the race will be all but meaningless.
    FLRacingFan and dpkimmel2001 like this.
  14. R Clarence

    R Clarence Team Owner

    From an AP article, 2012.

    But make no mistake, France wants to figure out how to ensure NASCAR has the best racing in the world. He just doesn't think that track promoter Bruton Smith's idea of implementing mandatory cautions during races is the way to go.

    "It's a very clear line to us -- what we're not going to do are gimmicky things," he said Friday at Daytona International Speedway. "I've heard we ought to throw a caution every 10 laps. That's nonsense. We won't do gimmicky things. But we'll do things that incentivize performance, incentivize wins. That we are open to."
  15. 2 Sweet

    2 Sweet Legend

  16. dpkimmel2001

    dpkimmel2001 Team Owner

    Hmm, how times change..... :D
    Blaze, DUN24 and BobbyFord like this.
  17. BobbyFord

    BobbyFord Resident Gearhead Contributor

    If someone doesn't take the sport over from Brian France NASCAR will eventually be a thing of the past
  18. aunty dive

    aunty dive Team Owner

    Eventually, everything will be a thing of the past.

  19. BobbyFord

    BobbyFord Resident Gearhead Contributor

    NASCAR will go the way of the dinosaur but not under the same circumstances. :D
  20. Reck

    Reck Team Owner

    When it comes to NASCAR everything is just a matter of time.

    But I do rather like the timed events idea. Not the countdown clock though.

    Something more along the lines of what F1 does. 2 Hour limit..maybe 2 and a half.

    If they cut the phony cautions the races will move along a lot quicker. That's for certain.
    Team Penske and Skoalbandit33 like this.
  21. Simple Fan

    Simple Fan First or Last

    In my opinion the caution clock would be better than the timed races. I know a lot of times if a Ford driver is leading I want a caution anyway so if the clock is there it could happen. I don't see it as a gimmick either. If it keeps the cars closer together and better racing I'm all for it. As for timed races that just seems dumb and wouldn't do anything for racing in my opinion. It doesn't matter if the race is 2 hours or 4 the finish will be watched. Not racing a complete race because time ran out would be silly.
  22. DanicaFreak

    DanicaFreak Green monster

    Monster has named the series premier?
  23. dpkimmel2001

    dpkimmel2001 Team Owner

    No. No name announced as of yet. Starting immediately after the Sprint Cup Banquet the series has officially been referred to as the NASCAR Premier Series. I guess until Monster announces their new name for the series.
    DanicaFreak likes this.
  24. 29-4

    29-4 Team Owner

  25. BobbyFord

    BobbyFord Resident Gearhead Contributor

    They should get rid of the fan council.
  26. Nitro Dude

    Nitro Dude Hauler Driver and Cylinder Head Maintenance

    That just may be the shot in the arm that Indy car and some of the other racing series needs to climb back up the mountain. Maybe there are just not enough motorsports fans and sponsors left in the world to feed so many different racing series anymore. If nascar closed it's doors and some of the other series grabbed just half of the fan base and their drivers, and their sponsors then that would be a pretty stout shot. Plus they would never have to worry anymore about trying to make the 500 and 600 on the same day in the month of May. Ones demise could be someone else's triumph. Just something to keep in mind.
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2016
    Skoalbandit33 likes this.
  27. 29-4

    29-4 Team Owner

    If NASCAR goes with this caution clock crap, I will be giving Indy a hard look. I got to go to my first IndyCar race at Road America last season, and had a great time. It seems to be more pure racing--the speed, the lack of cautions for no reason, no Chase, etc.
    dpkimmel2001 likes this.
  28. dpkimmel2001

    dpkimmel2001 Team Owner

    Do they still use the Push to Pass Button or am I thinking of a video game somewhere? Mario Kart comes to mind. Anyhow, I always thought that was kind of silly.
    Speedbowl14 and Nitro Dude like this.
  29. gnomesayin

    gnomesayin Team Owner

    I think NASCAR just found it's new slogan.

    NASCAR: Destroying the very basis of what racing is supposed to be about since 2004.

    Anyway, there is nothing fundamentally wrong with timed races. Any fan of motorsports knows that many forms of racing used timed events rather than distance. If that's the direction they want to go in with all but the big traditional distance races (Daytona 500, Southern 500, Coca-Cola 600), that's fine.

    The caution clock is awful and stupid. I suppose it's actually less corrupt and more honest than phony cautions being used subjectively to manipulate races. If that's the choice, might as well make it official and above board. The only true proper choice is no fake cautions, but we know that ain't gonna happen. The buffoons running NASCAR still think they are in the midst of reinventing auto racing to make it palatable for the most casual, least engaged audience. They will continue to dumb it down more and more going for the lowest common denominator, and will still never reach those people who watch football, NCAA tourney, etc. not because they appreciate the sport, but because it's easy and everyone else does.

    If NASCAR were a person, it would be the kind of person with so little self confidence and so much self loathing that they keep hacking their face up with plastic surgery procedures. Every time you see them, they look a little different, and you wonder, "What are you doing to yourself? Why?"
    jws926, 29-4 and FLRacingFan like this.
  30. gnomesayin

    gnomesayin Team Owner

    It's actually not that bad in practice, because everyone is on equal footing with a certain number of uses, and there is a strategic element to its use. A driver in front can use it to "Push to Stay Ahead". DRS in F1 is another matter, not well implemented.
    FLRacingFan likes this.
  31. Zerkfitting

    Zerkfitting Team Owner

    I can understand the time limit from the broadcast perspective but I prefer a 500 mile race complete 500 miles; big events have no time limit. A time limit in F1 is probably good for F1 due to the lack of competition. I've noticed that ball and stick sports take more time than they used to (I assume to show more commercials). The concept of a caution clock is just dumb.
  32. I don't think a caution clock would make me stop watching because as @ToyYoda said they are already doing the same thing now with the yellow flag. Also I like participating here so in order to do so I have to watch most of the races. I totally get where you are coming from though.
  33. Nitro Dude

    Nitro Dude Hauler Driver and Cylinder Head Maintenance

    I'm not sure. I have been so busy this year that I didn't even see the Indy 500. I never liked the push to pass either.
  34. FLRacingFan

    FLRacingFan Team Owner

    I don't want to watch a race where I know the majority of the event will be largely irrelevant. Yeah, lame debris cautions usually serve this purpose a lot of the time but at least there exists the chance of an extended green flag run (a la Atlanta earlier this year). If you know exactly when they're going to be bunched back up why even bother with most of the race?
    blanston, Skoalbandit33 and Greg like this.
  35. BobbyFord

    BobbyFord Resident Gearhead Contributor

    I lost interest in open wheel decades ago.
  36. FLRacingFan

    FLRacingFan Team Owner

    I would also add to this that P2P is only used on road courses and street circuits. It's been several years since they've had it on ovals.

    Not a fan of DRS where the purpose is solely to aid the trailing car.
  37. IMO, the primary reason Nascar is in its current position is due to the death of Mike Rich and Dale Earnhardt and the changes that were implemented after their passing. When Nascar makes a rule it is like telling a lie as you have to keep making new ones until you are so far down the rabbit hole you can't see a thing.
  38. FLRacingFan

    FLRacingFan Team Owner

    I guess I wouldn't care so much about timed races as long as they weren't unnecessarily short but just a time maximum ensuring the race fits within its allotted TV window. I've seen a few Aussie Supercars races get cut by a couple of laps or so and it hasn't seemed like such a big deal. I wouldn't be in favor of it but I wouldn't strongly oppose it either. I don't think you mess with the major events though - Daytona, Bristol night race, Indy, Darlington, 600, Richmond night race, Homestead.
    Skoalbandit33 likes this.
  39. The attitude of your son is refreshing and I only wish it could be duplicated again and again within his age group. Even though I have preferences for things I would like to see in Nascar they are not important at all compared to young people as he will be a fan 50 years from now whereas I expect to be pushing up daisies long before 10 years are up.

    Aunty is an intelligent person but as I have said to him before man would have never landed on the moon if he had any say in it because he would have said it was impossible. Obviously physics can never be removed from the equation when it comes to racing but its effect can be curtailed in many ways if the will to do so is present.
  40. aunty dive

    aunty dive Team Owner

    Some people call it Push to Avoid Being Passed.

    Complete nonsense.
    Revman and dpkimmel2001 like this.

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