championship question

blue92

blue92

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Would Johnson be a 5 time champion if the points were set up like they were when Dale Earnhardt won 7?
 
No.


Here's an interesting stat about NASCAR's 10-race Chase for the Championship format: Only three times in the last seven years would the champion have won it under the old full-season points format.

Jeff Gordon would have won the 2004 Cup that Kurt Busch won. Tony Stewart would have been the champion under either format in 2005, and Jimmie Johnson would have been the champion under either format in 2006 and 2009. But Gordon would have won under the old system in 2007 and Carl Edwards would have won it in 2008.
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Read more: http://www.autoweek.com/article/20101124/MOTORCYCLERACING/101129936#ixzz1FBcgxktp
 
For shame Blue, trying to compare anyone to the God Earnhardt. The true Earnhardt fan won't even compare Petty's seven titles to their racing God. All three of those top champs were in different eras, different number of races, and differing point systems. We've also found that Earnhardt wouldn't have won seven titles using the newer point system. Not quite sure about Petty.

It's always been fun for people to compare current athletes to those top athletes of the past. Try as you may, but the comparisons can never be proven. The only true comparisons are those who compete at the same time, and when you do that, you can prove who is the best by the title/race or whatever. You can't even compare Johnson of today to Johnson of last year because the situations are different.

But it's fun to discuss. :)
 
Its really hard to say even looking at it with both point systems cause honestly with the chase and without the chase you are gonna do different stuff thought the year. Cause when the chase lets look at how its been. You just gotta run good the first 26 races and stay top ten. I mean you can be 10th all year in points start the chase and win the championship cause say maybe you just used good stuff all year and saved the best stuff for the last ten races I mean that would be smart to do would it not? Now with how you would have to be with thee old one you gotta run good all year long all 36 races you can't just run for points all year you gotta run for wins and top 5's you can't just settle for a good finish to gather up points come chase time. So really even looking at who would have won with the new or old points in them years yeah that won't tell you.
 
It's actually a very simple question to answer if you do a little research. There are several websites that list old point system stats. Jeff Gordon would have had more Championships had NASCRAP not changed the rules mid-game...
As far as Petty goes...he only won more because he entered and raced more. David Pearson actually had a better win percentage than Petty, Petty raced almost 1200 races but only won 200 of them...
 
BobbyFord said:
It's actually a very simple question to answer if you do a little research. There are several websites that list old point system stats. Jeff Gordon would have had more Championships had NASCRAP not changed the rules mid-game...
As far as Petty goes...he only won more because he entered and raced more. David Pearson actually had a better win percentage than Petty, Petty raced almost 1200 races but only won 200 of them...
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But are you sure they would have ran the same way all year? I mean who's to say any of them wouldn't have tried something different if not for the chase I mean you don't now how they would have played it out I don't either so its pretty much still impossible to say.
 
Blaze88 said:
But are you sure they would have ran the same way all year? I mean who's to say any of them wouldn't have tried something different if not for the chase I mean you don't now how they would have played it out I don't either so its pretty much still impossible to say.
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In this game you show up to win every week. If not then you may have to buy a ticket for the Banquet.
 
Does it matter? Yes, we all (well most) hate the chase (and JJ's domination of it) but it is what it is. They have it figured out. But like someone else said, strategies would be completely different, so there's absolutely no way to tell
 
BobbyFord said:
In this game you show up to win every week. If not then you may have to buy a ticket for the Banquet.
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But you are telling me if you had away to stay in the top ten all year for points and save your really great stuff for the last ten races you wouldn't?
 
BobbyFord said:
Um..........you show up to win every week. You've obviously never raced.
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Not in NASCAR. You've obviously never raced in NASCAR. The first 26 races are indeed full of drivers looking for "a good points day.". Heck, a lot of times these half these guys just want to keep their nose clean.
 
VaDirt said:
Not in NASCAR. You've obviously never raced in NASCAR. The first 26 races are indeed full of drivers looking for "a good points day.". Heck, a lot of times these half these guys just want to keep their nose clean.
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Name me a driver or team that shows up each week to run second....I'm waiting...
 
BobbyFord said:
It's actually a very simple question to answer if you do a little research. There are several websites that list old point system stats. Jeff Gordon would have had more Championships had NASCRAP not changed the rules mid-game...
As far as Petty goes...he only won more because he entered and raced more. David Pearson actually had a better win percentage than Petty, Petty raced almost 1200 races but only won 200 of them...
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After Daytona they said now we can all let go of Dale, Really? Hammond had to say on trackside that the 21 won and 2+1=3 how cool was that. Look I know he was great and he did alot for the sport, but he doesn't have to mentioned still at every track they go to and at 5 minute intervals. I know bash me all you want but it really is time to let go.
 
VaDirt said:
Most everyone not in the top ten. Those guys would be happy with a top 20 finish.
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Most everyone not in the top 20 has no dreams of finishing in the top 10 or being at the banquet. I was referring to the teams on a weekly basis capable of visiting Victory Lane.
 
So now you go from "name me a driver that doesn't go out there to win every week" to only those in the top ten do?
 
I'm sure there are plenty of times when a driver, even one of the top ones, has come out on Sunday after a bad weekend (bad qualifying run, can't seem to find the handle, had to go to a backup car or whetever) and said and felt something along the lines of "let's at least see if we can salvage a decent points day."
 
BobbyFord said:
Ok, name the ones not in the top ten that are in lala land thinking they're going to get a win :confused:
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Maybe Trevor Bayne fits in that category. Of course he won on a track that is a crap shoot so any of the drivers in the top 35 have a decent chance to win, especially if there is a "big one".
 
BobbyFord said:
Most everyone not in the top 20 has no dreams of finishing in the top 10 or being at the banquet. I was referring to the teams on a weekly basis capable of visiting Victory Lane.
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some may question if montoya is capable of visiting victory lane but a couple of years ago he really pi**ed me off by points racing so that he would make the chase. admitted it too so that's not just my opinion. i detest points racing. i'm sure others have done it but his was by far the most blatant i've seen.
 
buckaroo said:
Maybe Trevor Bayne fits in that category. Of course he won on a track that is a crap shoot so any of the drivers in the top 35 have a decent chance to win, especially if there is a "big one".
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He say they were really only looking for a Top 15 out of today.
 
It's way to hard to compare the two because of this nonsense that is the chase. There is no doubt that Jimmie is a good driver but I'm hoping we eventually go back to a more normal standings cause I want to see how he does then.

Just felt like mentioning this...

I'm sure this has been said before but it's really stupid that you get 1 bonus point for leading the most laps during a race and you also get 1 bonus point for leading 1 lap of a race. Leading the most laps shouldn't equal the same amount of points as leading 1 lap. Beyond stupid to me.
 
buckaroo said:
For shame Blue, trying to compare anyone to the God Earnhardt. The true Earnhardt fan won't even compare Petty's seven titles to their racing God. All three of those top champs were in different eras, different number of races, and differing point systems. We've also found that Earnhardt wouldn't have won seven titles using the newer point system. Not quite sure about Petty.

It's always been fun for people to compare current athletes to those top athletes of the past. Try as you may, but the comparisons can never be proven. The only true comparisons are those who compete at the same time, and when you do that, you can prove who is the best by the title/race or whatever. You can't even compare Johnson of today to Johnson of last year because the situations are different.

But it's fun to discuss. :)
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Well I've been a NA$CAR fan for 38 years I've seen Earnhardt race and I've seen Johnson race and It's my opinion that even though I was a Earnhardt hater for many, many years I'll have to say he is a better driver than Johnson. Earnhardt wanted to lead every lap I didn't ever see him coast around to the end of a race like I've seen Johnson go. I'm also becoming a Kyle Busch fan because he like Earnhardt wants to lead every lap of every race he's in and he's the closest driver in a very long time that comes close to the driver Earnhardt was. This is why I asked what you guys thought, if there was anyone else out there that felt the same as I did.
 
blue92 said:
Well I've been a NA$CAR fan for 38 years I've seen Earnhardt race and I've seen Johnson race and It's my opinion that even though I was a Earnhardt hater for many, many years I'll have to say he is a better driver than Johnson. Earnhardt wanted to lead every lap I didn't ever see him coast around to the end of a race like I've seen Johnson go. I'm also becoming a Kyle Busch fan because he like Earnhardt wants to lead every lap of every race he's in and he's the closest driver in a very long time that comes close to the driver Earnhardt was. This is why I asked what you guys thought, if there was anyone else out there that felt the same as I did.
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Yea, Earnhardt also raced dirty by wrecking people. Sorry but Johnson is a clean racer and I respect him more for that. He doesn't need to use the crutch of wrecking your opponent to run in the top 5 like Earnhardt did.
 
blue92 said:
Well I've been a NA$CAR fan for 38 years I've seen Earnhardt race and I've seen Johnson race and It's my opinion that even though I was a Earnhardt hater for many, many years I'll have to say he is a better driver than Johnson. Earnhardt wanted to lead every lap I didn't ever see him coast around to the end of a race like I've seen Johnson go. I'm also becoming a Kyle Busch fan because he like Earnhardt wants to lead every lap of every race he's in and he's the closest driver in a very long time that comes close to the driver Earnhardt was. This is why I asked what you guys thought, if there was anyone else out there that felt the same as I did.
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Johnson only coasted around cause there was no close to him, I also seen Johnson come from out of nowhere and pass 11 cars at once. Johnson has a knack for turning bad days into top 5 finishes. In fact this past Sunday at Phoenix, he turned a bad pit stop into a top three finish. he's pretty damn impressive, I say it's harder to win a championship with today's point system and the field is probably the most talent laden it's ever been.
 
SpeedPagan said:
Yea, Earnhardt also raced dirty by wrecking people. Sorry but Johnson is a clean racer and I respect him more for that. He doesn't need to use the crutch of wrecking your opponent to run in the top 5 like Earnhardt did.
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I must concur
 
Johnson - like 99% of drivers - wanted to lead every lap as well but after realizing that it's not going to happen, smartened up and has since won 5 cups in a row.

IMO, Johnson isn't the most talented driver in Nascar but he just may be the smartest and it doesn't hurt having the resources of HMS to rely upon.
 
Does anyone know if Earnhardt would've won 7 under the current system?

You know...if were comparing and all that.
 
#17D500winner said:
Does anyone know if Earnhardt would've won 7 under the current system?

You know...if were comparing and all that.
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You can't compare the two because once you put a driver in a different points structure scenario their strategy would change, thus the results most likely would change. Comparing the two systems and drivers within it, isn't going to give a true comparison of the drivers talents. IMO it is not worth trying to do this, just accept it JJ won 5....so far, and in a row which is a monumental feat, and Sr. won 7 along with Petty, both awesome accomplishments in two different eras of Nascar racing. Take both for what they are, you can't truly compare the two. The only thing you can do is compare the points system structure itself. IMO the present is better, much easier to understand, easier to figure out as the race unfolds, and makes much more sense than the old structure. Take away the Chase for the last 10 races of the season, shorten the season so it doesn't run into NFL as much, and you would have a winner.
 
Mopardh9 said:
You can't compare the two because once you put a driver in a different points structure scenario their strategy would change, thus the results most likely would change. Comparing the two systems and drivers within it, isn't going to give a true comparison of the drivers talents. IMO it is not worth trying to do this, just accept it JJ won 5....so far, and in a row which is a monumental feat, and Sr. won 7 along with Petty, both awesome accomplishments in two different eras of Nascar racing. Take both for what they are, you can't truly compare the two.
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Well said. I agree completely.
 
klemmabyna said:
i hate the chase, but i would have LOVED to see earnhardt in the chase format. and you haters thought he caused carnage in the good ol' days!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo4y7MJfeIs
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They call that "The Pass in the Grass" but of course we all know that Dale didn't pass Elliott when he went through the grass. He never lost the lead and thus didn't pass anyone.

Here's an idea that Earnhardt would have loved. How about giving the title to the driver who wins the most races? Didn't Earnhardt say that second place is just the first loser? Sure would make the last race exciting if there were two or three or more drivers with the same number of wins.
 
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