Cup RACE thread --- 500 at Daytona

StandOnIt

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Anybody want to re-watch the race and count complete passes? Just because something can check a box in a statistical count doesn't make it compelling to watch or particularly meaningful. It is helpful in trying to convince people something was better than it really was.
There is no need. I understand that facts that cloud a poster's opinion will infuriate them, but the constant misinformation CAN be cleared up fairly easily if one took the time and had an open mind to look. Anybody can see that this counting of who was leading at the line, (that is where they count passes) that the vast majority of the leaders led for multiple laps. Of course the ol' it's a crappy race because I said so, or even simpler, I hate plate races works for some, but some of us that do follow the facts know differently. These figures tell us without even seeing the race that comparing the race to other super speedway races that 2023 Daytona wasn't a majority single file race but instead most of the race was side by side at 200 MPH. Mike Joy mentioned earlier in the broadcast that the race was on line to set a record for the number of passes.

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StandOnIt

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You almost wonder if they need to change the OT rules for only one chance at plate tracks. It's just too easy to simply take a guy out and still have a chance to win
I think that overall the racing on ALL tracks has changed but some of the fans haven't figured that out, and some of the ones that have figured it out are having a problem with it. I don't think Nascar is trying to stop the way races are ran but just the opposite. Tight competition, wrecking your mom to win. These drivers are trying to punch out a win to make the playoffs, and the sooner the better.
 

jaqua19

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There is no need. I understand that facts that cloud a poster's opinion will infuriate them, but the constant misinformation CAN be cleared up fairly easily if one took the time and had an open mind to look. Anybody can see that this counting of who was leading at the line, (that is where they count passes) that the vast majority of the leaders led for multiple laps. Of course the ol' it's a crappy race because I said so, or even simpler, I hate plate races works for some, but some of us that do follow the facts know differently. These figures tell us without even seeing the race that comparing the race to other super speedway races that 2023 Daytona wasn't a majority single file race but instead most of the race was side by side at 200 MPH. Mike Joy mentioned earlier in the broadcast that the race was on line to set a record for the number of passes.

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The issue is that this method is ambiguous and context based. If this is the context that dictates a lead change every year for every race, then obviously the improvement or decline of "passes" is still an improvement, or a decline, regardless of the the context. You speak of being opened minded, and refuse to entertain discussion about context...which really is what data like this is about. As you said, it can be seen that "vast majority" of recorded lead changes resulted in multiple laps being lead. That's observational data. Great, so even you acknowledge the discrepancy, even if it's small, between recorded lead changes and lead changes that resulted in the leader being cleared. What some may be suggesting is that the current lead changing data reflects how close and tight the racing is, opposed to successful passes for the lead.

The racing on track yesterday was great, especially when tires started to wear. The pack spread out a bit, lead changes happened. What I'd love to see is recorded lead changes at the line in which the leader cleared the leader of the previous lap. I think that would be more reflective of lead changes, and I'm curious how close these numbers would be to the recorded lead changes.

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Doc Austin

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I think that overall the racing on ALL tracks has changed but some of the fans haven't figured that out, and some of the ones that have figured it out are having a problem with it. I don't think Nascar is trying to stop the way races are ran but just the opposite. Tight competition, wrecking your mom to win. These drivers are trying to punch out a win to make the playoffs, and the sooner the better.
Everyone is desperate and willing to do stupid things. That's the kind of entertainment you just can't fake.
 

StandOnIt

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The issue is that this method is ambiguous and context based. If this is the context that dictates a lead change every year for every race, then obviously the improvement or decline of "passes" is still an improvement, or a decline, regardless of the the context. You speak of being opened minded, and refuse to entertain discussion about context...which really is what data like this is about. As you said, it can be seen that "vast majority" of recorded lead changes resulted in multiple laps being lead. That's observational data. Great, so even you acknowledge the discrepancy, even if it's small, between recorded lead changes and lead changes that resulted in the leader being cleared. What some may be suggesting is that the current lead changing data reflects how close and tight the racing is, opposed to successful passes for the lead.

The racing on track yesterday was great, especially when tires started to wear. The pack spread out a bit, lead changes happened. What I'd love to see is recorded lead changes at the line in which the leader cleared the leader of the previous lap. I think that would be more reflective of lead changes, and I'm curious how close these numbers would be to the recorded lead changes.

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There are a number of stats like that already if you would look at the table. Truex, Burton, Kyle B, Preece, Suarez. Those are a given and chances are the drivers credited with 2 or three laps were leaders and not what some are saying they were switching bumpers over the line. That happens, but why the hell do some people have a problem with it. That is the nature of a super speedway, close F'n racing side by side for 200 laps is what the majority of the public wants.
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Charlie Spencer

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Honest question: Why do you anti-plate racing people even bother watching the Daytona 500? You know you're going to hate it.
Because the eight plate races award points that affect season standing and playoff seeding. I don't like the Clash or All-Star races; since they don't award points, I don't watch them. I can watch or skip an individual golf tournament if I don't like the course or the format, since I don't care about their championship.
 

StandOnIt

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Because the eight plate races award points that affect season standing and playoff seeding. I don't like the Clash or All-Star races; since they don't award points, I don't watch them. I can watch or skip an individual golf tournament if I don't like the course or the format, since I don't care about their championship.
The clash did award points. Correction....
 

StandOnIt

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For the life of me I can't figure out why the 8 and the 3 split up on the front row for their restart after seeing how it turned out. It seemed like they went the opposite direction of what the new choose rule would have done with the 3 being lined up behind the 8.

 

StandOnIt

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Tell ya what. If KDB finds out it was paw paw's boy's idea to split up instead of push, this lovey dovey teammate B.S. just went out the door lol.
 

jaqua19

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For the life of me I can't figure out why the 8 and the 3 split up on the front row for their restart after seeing how it turned out. It seemed like they went the opposite direction of what the new choose rule would have done with the 3 being lined up behind the 8.

Kyle and Austin said they had a plan. I wonder if they saw how the 5/48 kept the field side by side for 20 laps and expected to just drag race to the finish.

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StandOnIt

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Pop Pop didn’t look too happy about it.

It didn’t appear to be his idea.
As far as I could stretch it, they may of thought to do the ol, start first on the top line and dog it on the low line and come out with the 8 in front of the 3 on the bottom line. But Damn, the choose rule would have put them like that on the bottom as a sure thing.
 

LibertyU24

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You almost wonder if they need to change the OT rules for only one chance at plate tracks. It's just too easy to simply take a guy out and still have a chance to win
Never cared much for OT or the double file restart. Daytona seems to be the worst for it. If they want OT on a super speedway , make it a single file restart and just 1 chance. It's ridiculous the way it is now.
 

StandOnIt

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They have done numerous versions of race endings and fan surveys. The version they are using came out on top with the fans.
 

LibertyU24

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They have done numerous versions of race endings and fan surveys. The version they are using came out on top with the fans.
I must've missed that survey..

I love how they are so concerned about safety. If that was the case wouldn't they just end the race at 500 miles. OT is nothing but a crash festival.
 

StandOnIt

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I must've missed that survey..

I love how they are so concerned about safety. If that was the case wouldn't they just end the race at 500 miles. OT is nothing but a crash festival.
So you think they would all mind their manners when lap 200 is coming up....
 

LibertyU24

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No I don't, but at least drivers would know the end of race is coming. It would eliminate OT strategy and cars wouldn't be so bunched up for a GWC. Right now it's like , I better bash his ass on 198 so we get OT
 

Blaze

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No I don't, but at least drivers would know the end of race is coming. It would eliminate OT strategy and cars wouldn't be so bunched up for a GWC. Right now it's like , I better bash his ass on 198 so we get OT
Uh to be fair man, they would just bash the person ass sooner to get a yellow flag, knowing they would go back green with very few laps to go.
 

Ford 222

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Reading through the thread....people dogging Ricky for the win saying the race is a farce, takes no talent, not real racing, blah, blah, blah.

If their driver wins it then it was all talent, incredible win, overcoming adversity, blah, blah, blah.

Congratulations Ricky and the entire 47 JTG Daughtery Race team. That win counts as much as Kyle Busch or Chase Elliot's next one. And it's every bit as prestigious as it would be for anyone else.
 

dgbullfrog

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That was a pretty late block by Stenhouse, and he is lucky he had his friend Larson behind him. Larson had 3 choices back off and possibly get wrecked by Bell who was pushing him, move up to the middle like he did, or drive right thru Stenhouse. Keselowski, Logano, and probably a lot of other drivers choose the third option on the last lap with a fairly decent chance of clearing Stenhouse and winning the race while the rest of the pack is in a big wreck. Larson cut him a break.
 

Spotter22

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That was a pretty late block by Stenhouse, and he is lucky he had his friend Larson behind him. Larson had 3 choices back off and possibly get wrecked by Bell who was pushing him, move up to the middle like he did, or drive right thru Stenhouse. Keselowski, Logano, and probably a lot of other drivers choose the third option on the last lap with a fairly decent chance of clearing Stenhouse and winning the race while the rest of the pack is in a big wreck. Larson cut him a break.
Thats what friends are for
 

Spotter22

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Yep and if her spotter had a brain he would have never let her get that far out front of Kenseth and have her gotten lined up on and trained. I remember yelling at the TV. I think she was running 8th at the time.
It was Mark Martin not Matt. Brain fade, and she was 3rd and got trained.Still had a good finish of 8th
 

DanicaFreak

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Yep and if her spotter had a brain he would have never let her get that far out front of Kenseth and have her gotten lined up on and trained. I remember yelling at the TV. I think she was running 8th at the time.
I remember that! Brendan kinda messed up there.
 
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