Dale Earnhardt in Peoria,USA

97forever

97forever

Team Owner
Joined
Jun 14, 2002
Messages
11,814
Points
553
Location
Proudly Southern
Another thread was discussing Jeff Gordon.

Eventually as happens a lot,thread drift set in a little. The name Earnhardt was mentioned--and that got the old miniscule grey matter going.

As a non-Earnhardt fan,but still with respect for the deceased I pose a few questions and would appreciate a few opinions,pro or con.

1. Is Dale,like Elvis before him,being 'icon-ised' to a point much larger than life? Is the Earnhardt name destined to take away from the accomplishments of other drivers?

2.Is the void left by Dale---and now I seee more clearly from some of you guys--never going to be filled? In short,is the loss of this driver going to forever be over this sport? A similar thing happened here in Bama after the loss of Davey.But sadly that is brushed aside to a degree.

3.Can any critisism of Dale be taken objectively?Or is the pain still to raw?

4.'Folk hero' comes to mind when Dale is mentioned. No other driver invokes quite the amount of attention this driver does. Is it really fair that Dale be held as the measuring stick to judge most up and coming drivers by?
5.Recenty,a post refering to Curtis Turner provoked a pretty strong emotional response. Is that the point that the modern day race fan has arrived at? Opinions of a driver,INDIVIDUAL opinions, are not really welcomed or accepted because the driver in question is no longer with us? I have asked myself,and caught myself a hundred times regarding this one. I may be in the minority,but a rational response still should carry some weight.

6.What part are the ever present spin-doctors playing in this whole thing? Trust me---'anti'-Earnhardt slogans don't play well on mainstreet USA. Not even here in Davey's backyard. Is a part of the hype due to NASCAR's ever present PR machine?

7. In the end--and ultimately--did Dale play a more positive or more negative role in where this sport is headed? Can that question even be asked without drawing a harsh word from his fans? Did this country's obsession with the 'rough and tough' take no prisoners attitude ,blind people to 'dirty' tactics?

Ok.Just a few questions. Actually not meant to draw controversy but just to provke a little thought.Put down your swords Earnhardtians.They are just questions.

Please note this was worded in a manner by deliberation not to draw fire or bash any driver. If you feel the need to do that,you are indicative of the 'problem' I am refering to.

:cheers:
 
O.K. here goes,

1. Yes his name is being icon-ised to a point much larger than life and yes his name is probably going to take away from other drivers accomplishments.

2. To me the loss of Dale will never be filled, I worked with GM parts all through the 80's and into the 90's and he is the only reason I started watching Nascar. They did a great job marketing their driver to the GM dealers as well as to the public. Until someone else steps up to take the reins of Nascar his death will always going to shadow this sport. Jeff Gordon is probably the best one to take that stand right now but doesn't like been that outspoken.

3. I can take any critisism you can dish out about Dale Sr., actually a few days after his death I took the license plate off of the front of my truck and all GM Goodwrench stickers off and now I have nothing on my truck to give the impression I am a NASCAR fan.

4. Yes it is fair for all drivers to be measured up against argueably the greatest driver in his time. It was Richard Petty before him and will be somebody else after him. You always need a measuring stick.

5. I do not get angry with any response when it is aimed at another driver, opinions are like a$$hole$ and every body has one and I have my on. I love reading rational responses and I think about everyone of them but normally I stay out of the conversation.

6. I think the spin doctors play a role in everything that happens today, whether it be Nascar, Irag, Pres. Bush, North Korea, or the World Series. The news media plays on peoples emotions.

7. I think he played a major role in where this sport is today, be it good or bad. Blinded people to "dirty tactics"................maybe but that is who he was, that is what he did, and that is why people loved him, you cannot snuff out the desire to winand that is how he did it. Just like everybody else did when he started racing.
 
The answer to most of these quesions is 'for a time".

The numbers of fans who are fans because of DE only is overwhelming. If the "spin doctors" have played any role it is in this area. I do not notice so much that the spin continues at the rate it did a few years ago.

In time, another driver will come along. Sacrilege I know, but we have seen it before. It happened to Fireball and it has kinda happened to petty. It will take some time, but it will happen. Is it fair to hold DE as the yardstick, absolutely. Just as fair as it is/was to hold Petty as the yardstick. In time there will be the inevitable "but times were different then" argument.

The key, IMO, is the very phrase "arguably the greatest". It was, still is, and always will be arguable.

Yes, the fans of DE are more sensitive and many of those who are not his fans remain sensitive to that sensitivity. His death is still relatively fresh. This too will pass.
 
1. Yes, I think he is being "icon-ized". And, as a long-time Earnhardt fan, I'm a bit uncomfortable with it.

2. Dale was the alpha-male among the drivers that's going to take time for some one to come forward and pick up the mantle --- if anyone ever does. He grabbed hold of issues and shook them --- I don't know of anyone right now that has the confidence to do that.

3. Criticism of Dale is alright with me. I know he was no choirboy. He drove hard with the bumper and showed no mercy. There are days when I can laugh over his exploits. There are times when a picture can set me to crying. And, there are times when I get so mad at him I could spit ---- mad that he didn't retire so he would still be running things at DEI.

4. Right now, Dale is the measuring stick. I think it will eventually pass to another.

5. I don't get in arguments over drivers --- you have an opinion, I have a different one. I'll live with mine, you can live with yours.

6. I guess I don't notice the "spin" much anymore.

7. Dale played a huge role in where the sport is today. He dished it out, and he took it when it was returned. When he came to the forefront, the hard-driving was appreciated. I think he had both a positive and a negative effect on racing. He drew people in with his racing --- you either loved him, or you loved to hate him --- but you watched --- and that was the bottom line.
 
Just my opinion, I cant even believe this thread was started. :angry:
 
No, last I read it said " ************* nice editing BTW.


The blank area was removed because it contained a personal attack NW
 
This post was removed by me...NW

Personal attacks will not be tolerated, please refrain from this type of post.
 
The top part of this post was deleted by me...NW
Personal attacks will not be tolerated, please refrain from this type of post.



Firstly, I think this thread is indirectly bashing Dale Earnhardt, who we cant forget was a 7-time NASCAR champion, has done more for the sport than anyone else and turned what was once just another Sunday festival into an American pastime. Need I say, this thread is also trying to belittle his accomplishments?

That's why I'm angry.
 
Just another 'dont like the thread' poster? Damn CW---considering that this is about the third straight smartassed remark you have made to one of my posts,I kinda expected more than just that.


This post wasn't disrespectful to anyone.It asked questions.Thats all.

Don't like it? Ask me if I care and see how long I cry because you disagree.
 
I didn't really see any bashing going on in the post. Just a few good questions. Questions that TRL and Hardscrabble bone pretty good job at answering. I am a big Dale sr. fan and didn't get afended so I don't see a problem. :D
 
I was'nt offended, Just some legit ?'s. Trust me if I think someone is bashing DE, like I said before I'll probably get kicked out of this forum because my reaction will be colorful.
 
Originally posted by Coffee Warlord@Oct 20 2003, 05:37 PM
No, I think it sucks being you.

Firstly, I think this thread is indirectly bashing Dale Earnhardt, who we cant forget was a 7-time NASCAR champion, has done more for the sport than anyone else and turned what was once just another Sunday festival into an American pastime. Need I say, this thread is also trying to belittle his accomplishments?

That's why I'm angry.
Click to expand...
In no way did I see ANY bashing of Dale Earnhardt, Sr. by 97forever. He stated and I quote:
Ok.Just a few questions. Actually not meant to draw controversy but just to provke a little thought.Put down your swords Earnhardtians.They are just questions.

Please note this was worded in a manner by deliberation not to draw fire or bash any driver. If you feel the need to do that,you are indicative of the 'problem' I am refering to.
Click to expand...

I think you, Coffee Warlord, need to read the entire post just a little bit better. 97forever was only asking some questions he was curious about and wanted those who were, and even were not fans, of Dale Earnhardt, Sr. to answer.
 
Originally posted by Coffee Warlord@Oct 20 2003, 05:22 PM
No, last I read it said "Sucks to be you", nice editing BTW.
Click to expand...
:huh: Calm down , children.
 
Earnhardt, Sr. was the greatest driver, bar none. No his void will never be filled. :(
 
Originally posted by Coffee Warlord@Oct 20 2003, 05:02 PM
Just my opinion, I cant even believe this thread was started. :angry:
Click to expand...
lighten up dude, don't be so defensive.
 
As a long-time, devoted Earnhardt fan, I found absolutely nothing derogatory in 97forever's questions.

I loved to watch Dale race. He did some things that were "questionable" to say the least. He wasn't a saint, and never pretended to be otherwise. What you saw was what you got.

As far as his accomplishments being belittled in this thread, far from it. Honest questions deserve honest answers.

And, to repeat what others have said --- personal attacks on posters will not be tolerated. If you wish to get personal, go to email or PM. Keep it off the board.
 
Ok gotta add my 2 cents here. I thought this was a good thread , some good interesting questions. Definetly wasn't intended to bash IMO. I think Dale sr. helped bring Nascar to where it is today probably more than anyone of his time. I loved to hate the guy, especially because he used to battle so hard with Elliot. I thought he was a good driver though i respected him for that, he did some things with his car that should of ended up in a wreck, but some how he pulled it off. Charlotte comes to mind during the Winston, "the passs in the grass" against Bill....that was great stuff. I never considered him a dirty driver, at times he was borderline on the bump and run stuff and probably crossed the line a few times , but who doesn't. I feel if he were alive today he would still be in contention for a championship. I miss him that is for sure, i never thought i would...and i still think the sport misses him. I think Harvick is probably the closest there is to "bad guy" spokes person in Nascar today. Gordon isn't the guy,but Harvick might become that leader if he strings a few championships together. The sport needs that now, they need some one to go to France , Helton and the others , tell them what is wrong with Nascar....they need a leader. :cheers:
 
Interesting to this point guys. This thread was a serious topic based on a concern I have for this sport that unites us all on here. I considered the feelings of the Earnhardt fans and tried my best to be both respectful and considerate of those fans feelings when I posted this.

Thats said I feel I owe the advisors an apology for making their job just a little harder. In fact, I get the feeling that a few of my remarks and posts---especially recently---have caused a few of you guys to draw a ragged breath. For that---and let me stress,for that alone--I apologies to you guys.

This is a great forum board,in truth I respect the opinions and value the input of most of you people on here. I try to contribute to this 'family'. Sometimes I get off the wall,yeah, but that's just me. No harm is ever meant by my ramblings...in fact just the opposite,I try in my own different drummer kinda way to bring a little lightness and fun to this place. If that has offended you guys that I care about,I am a big enough guy to apologize for it.

However a pointed and direct non-contributory remark made in anger towards me by a certain poster---particularly for about the third time---was met with,and will always be met with, exactly the same type of response that was given by me. I can't change that fact and see nothing to apologize for in that regard. Maturity be damned : if they give it to me in an immature fashion then they can certainly expect to receive the same in return.

Sorry to ramble folks. Ya'll have a good day. :cheers:
 
In no way did I feel that any of the questions that 97 asked were meant to bash Earnhardt. They are great questions. Questions I think many of us have probably thought at one time or another 97 just posted them.
I do find it extremely interesting that both 97 and CWs post were edited, considering all the derogatory postings Silver Ram made and I can't remember his post being edited. Just my thoughts.

As far as Earnhardt, well I was not a fan. I do think he did a lot for this sport and was a good driver, he had the championships to prove it. And I do feel that for a lot of true Earnhardt fans his death is still very raw, and sometimes they can be overly sensitive. The rest of us just need to think about if God forbid, something happened to our favorite drive wouldn't we be too?
 
For what it is worth, I respected Earnhardt for what he did as a race driver and the changes he made in his life in later years. I did not respect him for his "win in any way" style of driving.

Earnhardt is placed on a pedestal for good reason. He was the best in his time.
Was he the best in NASCAR, ever?? Arguable. And that debate will rage for years to come.

I wonder how many remember the Earnhardt of the early years, who, when he spoke out, his being vocal referencing someone he felt wronged him in some way. During his early years, he was not labeled as a spokesperson for NASCAR. That was conferred on him by his peers at a much later time in his career.
The progression of the popularity of NASCAR came about through the efforts of Richard Petty who brought NASCAR to a "respectable" level through his being "The good will ambassador" to the sport.
And like Earnhardt, during his peak, Richard Petty was also a "like him or hate him" kind of guy as well. Winning too much does that.
Earnhardt took NASCAR to another level with his "win at any cost style" and fans either liked him or hated him, but either way it helped draw crowds and created interest for the sport.

Is there pain on his demise?? Yes, to an extent. While others have moved on, many fans are still floundering is searching for another driver to support. To them, it just ain't the same. I think a lot of fans have gone through the same thing when thier driver retired.
Is there a void ?? Not to me. My philosophy might be a bit different. Earnhardt is gone and the races continued. Cold ?? Possibly, but he was one of over forty drivers on the track every race. His slot got filled the next week.
There should be no question Earnhardt is a "folk hero". I think everybody should have a hero. My hero is Barry Goldwater.

In the past, anti-Earnhardt signs played well in parts of Peoria, but they are no longer in good taste. It is not a breech of etiquette to offer negative or non-conforming opinions of the deceased. If this were the case, what a person did with his life, no matter which road he chose, upon thier death the negative factors and opinions formed on what they did in thier life time should have no consequence or be discussed. Having been replaced with only pleasantries and platitudes.
I've said it before and I'll say it again,"if you have a negative opinion of someone when they live, why should it change after they die". I expect no one to say nice things about me in death if they were not true in life.

National televison broadcasting the Daytona 500 in 1979, featuring the famous fight, adding into the mix the arrival of Hal Needham and Burt Reynold's gussied-up pit crew with decorated uniforms, painted tractor-trailer and pit tools, and the popularity of the movie "Smokey and the Bandit" all added to the upswing and glitz.
Combine these things with upstart Earnhardt's driving style, private personna and demeanor, which, along with regular national media coverage of NASCAR racing, brought another dimension to the sport.
Earnhardt deffinitely had an impact on the sport. How big is arguable.
I think the marketing ploys, beginning with Jeff Gordon and currently riding with Junior, are having a larger impact. But this is a different time.

The question of his influence being positive or negative must be answered with an affirmative. It shows in the record books where he was not the winniest nor the second most winning driver in NASCAR.
Yet he is the measuring stick and will remain so until someone ties or takes his records. This will set a new standard.
Today, Dale Earnhardt, Senior, is the standard in NASCAR Winston Cup Racing, just as Richard Petty was the standard before him.
 
And as unpopular(to some) as it is to say, the measuring stick is about to be one Mr. Jeff Gordon,IMO.That conclusion is inescapable: IF(<-) wins and titles are to not be discounted then Gordon will likely eclipse Dale in the near future. With the disclaimer below however:

The point that had provoked me to make this post to begin with isn't really about wins or titles.It isn't at all about stats or even driving tactics. It is more about the emotional impact ONE driver has had on this sport. Positive or negative,right or wrong,the impact Dale left behind is one of emotion---not just wins or titles. I personally(<-more careful these days) think Bobby Allison was the best stock car driver of the last thirty plus years. But I dont think Bobby,Richard or David will ever replace Earnhardt on an emotional level. Not at this early stage and probably not ever. The truth seems to be---and the analogy to Elvis isnt exact but still close--the sad loss of Dale was the very factor that has given him this lasting impact. Maybe,like Elvis in the music field, Dale Earnhardt will always be at the top.

Just really hard to say. This amount of impact just concerns me as a fan somehow. Some feel that given time this state will pass,that time will soften the hurt and another driver will come along.

But I really don't think so. The mythos behind Dale is real and likely to be everlasting. Like him or don't, he left something lasting behind, no question of that.
 
Well to me it is still unreal that I wake up on raceday and do not see the BLACK NO. 3 on the racetrack. Almost like he was above death and I suppose that's not right because after all he was human.
 
unfortunatly I was working on that sad day of his death and I was listening the race on the radio and when dale wrecked I was pissed and shut off the radio, about a half hour later my brother called me and told me that dale died and my heart dropped to my feet and I stood there stunned for about 10 min, I recorded that race and I still haven't watched it, it's like there's a hole when it comes time to watch a race. Jr. is my fav. now but it will be never be like the feeling I had to watch sr. race.
 
To many people, Dale Earnhardt was NASCAR racing. With his passing, a chapter has ended. We may never see his likes again. For those of us who watched him race for years, we will always have the memories of the Man in Black.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom