Dodge Wants Help

kat2220

kat2220

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Chevy Dominating in 2007; Dodge wants Aero Help: Seven of the top 10 [in points] are Chevys. The [Phoenix race] lineup reflects the first seven races in which Chevys have won six times, taken 27 of a possible 35 top-5 positions and led an amazing 81 percent of the laps. That number is even more lopsided over the past five races in which Chevys have led an astounding 91.4 percent of the laps. It's so out of whack that representatives from other manufacturers have called Robin Pemberton, NASCAR's director of competition, to see what can be done to level the playing field. Pemberton isn't concerned. While he admits NASCAR is working with Dodge to alleviate an aerodynamic problem in traffic, he said the chassis dyno and wind tunnel numbers don't suggest Chevy have a competitive advantage over Ford, Dodge or Toyota. He said NASCAR isn't looking to make rule changes to help the other manufacturers, saying the Chevy advantage is in the sheer number of cars. Twenty-one of the 50 cars that attempted to qualify for Saturday's race at Phoenix were Chevys, compared to 13 Dodges, nine Fords and seven Toyotas.(ESPN.com)
 
Dodge: You got your new nose. Engines are all close to eachother.

Either quit whining, or go eat some cheese.
 
So the Dodge drivers are: John Andretti, Mike Bliss, Kurt Busch, Chad Chaffin, Kasey Kahne, Bobby Labonte, Juan Montoya, Ryan Newman, Kyle Petty, Scott Riggs, Elliott Sadler, Reed Sorenson and David Stremme.

uhh, Dodge, it may not be the cars...
 
barelypure said:
So the Dodge drivers are: John Andretti, Mike Bliss, Kurt Busch, Chad Chaffin, Kasey Kahne, Bobby Labonte, Juan Montoya, Ryan Newman, Kyle Petty, Scott Riggs, Elliott Sadler, Reed Sorenson and David Stremme.

uhh, Dodge, it may not be the cars...
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I take it you are just trying to start a sh#t fight but I'll play if you like.

If Evernham's entire team is floundering ....especially Kasey....there has to be some disadvantage in the design.

and you think Kurt cant drive as well? I dont like him but he can drive a car

So ridiculous I cant I cant believe I've responded to the comment ;)
 
Clutch said:
I

If Evernham's entire team is floundering ....

;)
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With Rays court date coming up in July he may be having trouble concentrating knowing he is about to lose an estimated 35 to 45 million.
 
I don't see anything starting a fight.
No one is saying that any Dodge driver has forgotten how to drive, or bashing any driver or team.
While he admits NASCAR is working with Dodge to alleviate an aerodynamic problem in traffic, he said the chassis dyno and wind tunnel numbers don't suggest Chevy have a competitive advantage over Ford, Dodge or Toyota.
Click to expand...
I don't see NASCAR risking the alienation of any manufacturer by skewing numbers to the detriment of another. It is not good for business.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
No one is saying that any Dodge driver has forgotten how to drive.
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Well what did it mean exactly?

You both implied that it was not a manufacturer problem and more likely a driver problem

I have no problem with that.....but to say that this group of drivers has no talent is laughable bordering on the ridiculous......

I'm not mad at all so please dont think I am.......I just reckon BP was trying to intentionally inflame the issue.......I like his style, just embarassed I've been sucked into it:D
 
I betcha

If you took the top chevy teams and swapped them to Dodges (God forbid!) You would see Dodge winning races in a short while..
Betsy:rolleyes:
 
Clutch said:
I take it you are just trying to start a sh#t fight but I'll play if you like.

If Evernham's entire team is floundering ....especially Kasey....there has to be some disadvantage in the design.

and you think Kurt cant drive as well? I dont like him but he can drive a car

So ridiculous I cant I cant believe I've responded to the comment ;)
Click to expand...

Yeh i kind of take offense to the driver thing, Kasey, Kurt, Ryan, and even Elliot are very worthy drivers....kind of strange how Kasey was winning races last year and now he struggles to get a top 20. Maybe it is some unfortunate incidents, but it is definetly not all driver that is for sure!:(
 
Betsy said:
If you took the top chevy teams and swapped them to Dodges (God forbid!) You would see Dodge winning races in a short while..
Betsy:rolleyes:
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Yeh ok Betsy and if you took all the Ford guys and put them in Chevys they would win too right???
 
Maybe ray's team should go back to running the nose they were running last year.

To me that's what's screwing them. Forget showcasing the 2007 nose, it ain't doing ray any good so.
 
Something isn't right because none of the Dodge teams are doing anything this year, not even close to a win. Just seems odd to me that the tide can change so dramatically in 1 year. Chevy can do no wrong, Hendrick is the top dog and Jack is sitting around wondering what happened. Never mind about Toyota Jack....look out for Chevy?????:confused: ;)
 
Dodge teams complained unceasingly about the nose last year. They got a new one, more aerodynamic, and suddenly no one can do a thing with it.

Maybe it is something other than aero that is limiting the Dodge teams --- shock choice, spring choice, the tires Goodyear is bringing, bump stops, maybe just the way the cars are built.
 
You missed the point MOPAR!

Mopardh9 said:
Yeh ok Betsy and if you took all the Ford guys and put them in Chevys they would win too right???
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Just the opposite Mopar... If you put the top Chevy teams in those Fords they would be at the top in a few races.. Got it now?
Betsy:rolleyes:
 
Sorry but no i don't get it.... Betsy you are missing the point the Chevy guys are way ahead of everyone else right now, there has to be a reason. It isn't just the drivers, because not all the Chevy guys are top notch..sorry. There is something else here that is the underlining issue ........$$$$. Money gets the best engineers, best equipment, best facilities and Chevy has that in Hendrick. Funny how things change from 1 season to another.
 
Mopardh9 said:
Sorry but no i don't get it.... Betsy you are missing the point the Chevy guys are way ahead of everyone else right now, there has to be a reason. It isn't just the drivers, because not all the Chevy guys are top notch..sorry. There is something else here that is the underlining issue ........$$$$. Money gets the best engineers, best equipment, best facilities and Chevy has that in Hendrick. Funny how things change from 1 season to another.
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If it were because of money Toyota would be top dog.
 
Guess i'll throw some stuff in..

I remember Robby saying he switched to ford because Ford gives their teams alot more money to finance wind tunnels and other R&D, compared to chevy or dodge. Hendrick has a god bit of money, and it shows except that 25 car. No matter who drives it or who's on the team, it never seems to do well. You can tell 65% of the funds are in the 24 and 48.

Dodge's biggest teams are Evernham and Penske. Evernham is a 3 car team while Penske only has 2 cars, and we know drivers and teams aren't the problem. Kahne won how many races last year, and Newman eats qualifying for lunch.

Ford has Rousch as basically their only team that does anything. 7 cars (counting yates) is alot, and yet kenseth is the only one this year stirring the pot. Ragan is nothing to write home about, but the rest of them have proven themselves with the chase. Now that flagship MArtin is gone, i wonder if that affected part of the team?

Toyota, well they speak for themselves.



And for all we can ponder, the CoT may be a common denominator (gee, what coincedence, i just finished 3 pages of math homework and here i am with a math term). It's obvious Hendrick is dumping oil barrels full of money into the CoT, and with the shop how it is, he might have a completely different division of fabricators doing the CoT, while other teams are making the Fab shops make 2 cars simultaneously.


Until Rick, Jack, Ray, and Mikey join the forums, we will never know.
 
Dodge drivers are not bad drivers, but they are not the caliber of the chevy drivers. Look what they have, Jeff Gordon, Jimmy Johnson, Dale Earnhardt Jr, Tony Stewart, Mark Martin.......
 
Well I hated I stirred up a storm and then was gone for so long... :D

OK, 5 Dodge drivers of various abilities from good to very good. I'll give you that. At Phoenix we had what 23 Chevys trying to make the show. And how many of those 23 would you classify at least as equal to the Dodge drivers.

Ryan used to qualify well. His stats on avg career finish is 20.6, 15.3, 16.5 and 13.9. So far this year 25.5. Put this to a graph. Or not. The numbers speak for themselves as a blind man could see a trend there.

Kurt used to run well. His avg finish last year 19.4. So far this year 19.4. 2005 was 15.3 but we can't use that number. It wasn't a Dodge.

Kasey has run hot and cold. His 1st year 16.7. Followed by a 21.9. Last year 15.5 and so far this year 26.8. Hardly a stellar career when you look at the whole body of work. And if one were to look at trends you would expect the 26 to come down some to keep the bounce going.

Riggs' best year was last year but he hasn't set the tracks on fire.

Sadler has always run between 15 and 20 regardless of who he was driving for.

So maybe the Dodges need some aero help. But, I'd love to see what a Martin or even a Truex Jr. could do in those cars.
 
tkj24 said:
Dodge drivers are not bad drivers, but they are not the caliber of the chevy drivers. Look what they have, Jeff Gordon, Jimmy Johnson, Dale Earnhardt Jr, Tony Stewart, Mark Martin.......
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The caliber of the drivers is the main problem in my opinion. As much as we'd like to sugar coat things, (or not, Betsy) all drivers are not equal. It's hard to debate (although many will) that Gordon, Johnson, Stewart, Earnhardt, etc are the top dogs.

I'm NOT saying Kasey, Kurt or Ryan are BAD drivers, but imagine one of those drivers in 100 races, in identical machines, against say, Tony Stewart, they wouldn't win a majority of the races. (and I like Kasey and Ryan a LOT more than Tony!)

:cheers:
 
vanzetti said:
The caliber of the drivers is the main problem in my opinion. As much as we'd like to sugar coat things, (or not, Betsy) all drivers are not equal. It's hard to debate (although many will) that Gordon, Johnson, Stewart, Earnhardt, etc are the top dogs.

I'm NOT saying Kasey, Kurt or Ryan are BAD drivers, but imagine one of those drivers in 100 races, in identical machines, against say, Tony Stewart, they wouldn't win a majority of the races. (and I like Kasey and Ryan a LOT more than Tony!)

:cheers:
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It's not the caliber it is the quantity, more Chevy drivers equals more chances for a win or a good qualifying spot. It is obvious to me that Hendrick is spending a lot of money to get the COT right. It is like 2 years ago when Jack could do no wrong. Nascar will do something, IMO they will have to, if Toyota doesn't start making headway by getting cars into the show they will give them something. It isn't always the drivers as most people are quick to point the finger at.
 
vanzetti said:
I'm NOT saying Kasey, Kurt or Ryan are BAD drivers, but imagine one of those drivers in 100 races, in identical machines, against say, Tony Stewart, they wouldn't win a majority of the races. (and I like Kasey and Ryan a LOT more than Tony!)

:cheers:
Click to expand...

I guess that's why Tony quit the IROC series a few years back because it was unfair.

Really though...anyone on here that truly believes that driver ability is what is carrying Chevy to all these wins either 1.Hasn't been around this sport too long OR 2. Is just wearing the chevy sunglasses.
First off, Bobby Labonte is hands down the best driver in a Dodge IMO, closely followed by Busch. On the right team & with the right car, they'd be winning races. See....Jeff Burton, Mark Martin,Denny Hamlin etc. I will agree that there are drivers out there that can carrry a lesser car to victory, however, without an awesome team, crew chief, and a great ride....forget about it. Jeff Gordon has been the top driver in Nascar over the last decade, like it or not. He did struggle post-ray with a new team/chief...remember ??? Could he have won the Championship in Matt Kenseths ride in '03 ??Absolutely. Would Bobby Labonte be winning races with Knaus & the 48...I know he would. On the other hand, would Johnson or Gordon be winning races in the 43 ?? I doubt it.Now is Dodge at a disadvantage ?? I don't have any clue. I do know, however, if Ford had won the majority of races this year, Nascar would not hesitate to give concessions to Chevrolet. That is how it has always gone down. It is just really hard for me to believe that there are people out there that think that a Gordon, Johnson, Stewart, etc, would be having as much success in another car based solely on their driving ability.
 
CypressTrout said:
Really though...anyone on here that truly believes that driver ability is what is carrying Chevy to all these wins either 1.Hasn't been around this sport too long OR 2. Is just wearing the chevy sunglasses.
First off, Bobby Labonte is hands down the best driver in a Dodge IMO, closely followed by Busch. On the right team & with the right car, they'd be winning races. See....Jeff Burton, Mark Martin,Denny Hamlin etc. I will agree that there are drivers out there that can carrry a lesser car to victory, however, without an awesome team, crew chief, and a great ride....forget about it. Jeff Gordon has been the top driver in Nascar over the last decade, like it or not. He did struggle post-ray with a new team/chief...remember ??? Could he have won the Championship in Matt Kenseths ride in '03 ??Absolutely. Would Bobby Labonte be winning races with Knaus & the 48...I know he would. On the other hand, would Johnson or Gordon be winning races in the 43 ?? I doubt it.Now is Dodge at a disadvantage ?? I don't have any clue. I do know, however, if Ford had won the majority of races this year, Nascar would not hesitate to give concessions to Chevrolet. That is how it has always gone down. It is just really hard for me to believe that there are people out there that think that a Gordon, Johnson, Stewart, etc, would be having as much success in another car based solely on their driving ability.
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Ahhh, some sanity. Good post CT
 
I concede to CT... it certainly is more than just one factor...

as Mopardh9 pointed out... more Chevy drivers equals more chances for a win

add to that --- Winning/funded/big/successful/well-oiled teams are simply going to be more successful than underfunded, small teams. Just like the Yankees in Baseball...
 
AN intervirew the other day (i might have already said this)- Kenny wallace said that Furn Row is on a 10 million dollar budget overall. Ray evernham said he can't get one car on track for less than 18 million. 8 million dollars is a big difference, multiplied by 2 more cars. That's 16 million more dollars spent by ray over FR. I can't imagine what HMS is spending on just the 24 and 48 cars, and on all 4 combined. Has to at least be in the 3-5 or so mill range per car, even compared to evernham.
 
The money being spent these days to win with a high caliber team is getting out of hand. As much as nascar says they are trying to help the under funded teams compete at the Cup level, i think that is a lot of BS. It takes a lot of money these days to win, that is why you see basically 3 organizations at the top.. Hendrick, followed by Rousch, and then RCR. I can't even put my favorite Evernham in the same league as these top 3 anymore. At least last year they had something, this year it has been pretty depressing. Maybe they lost key engineers, the engine program isn't up to snuff or whatever, but it seems to be Dodge in general. I know Ray has been shopping around for a high profile co-owner, something like what Jack did with Fenway, well he needs to do something soon because none of his drivers are going anywhere this year....times running out and the top 12 isn't getting any closer.
 
I guess this the biggest reason I've become dissillusioned with NASCAR I miss the old days when guy could build a car in his garage after putting in a day at his regular job, show up at the track for the weekend and eventually become a star.
 
Well Be9

be9ak7ts16 said:
I guess this the biggest reason I've become dissillusioned with NASCAR I miss the old days when guy could build a car in his garage after putting in a day at his regular job, show up at the track for the weekend and eventually become a star.
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I'm not so sure becoming a star ever was as easy as you seem to think.. Now if you mean coming home from work was driving back from Tennessee at high speed with a load of liquer... then, well, yes you may have a point.
Betsy;)
 
I didn't mean to imply that it was easy. I was referring to the fact a guy could do it on his own in a different place and time. Alas this sport will never see another Independant (IE Bill Elliott or Alan Kulwicki) make a name for himself in this spaort. The closest thing we have now is Carl Long and when's the last time you saw him around.
 
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