Does it really matter what the car is?

Team Penske

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You could watch Hudson, Buick, Old's, Chrysler, Chevy, Pontiac, Fords, Mercury or any other car that are manufactured
and they all have one agenda and that is to WIN. Most times the ones who pour the most resources into it usually become the winning teams. Recently (last 15 yrs) Nascar gets to make all the decisions about the car and the engines and they still can't decide what they want or how to achieve it. Some say the faster they go the better, others want the cars to be really hard to drive so the best and smartest drivers win.
The reality is (IMO), if you just go back to a maximum number of cars (2) for each team, an honest points system to determine the champion over the entire year ( no gimmicks), we will see the best racing and the fans will also enjoy going to the track

Nascar keep your hands off and quit trying for game 7 moments for every race.
 

Revman

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Nascar keep your hands off and quit trying for game 7 moments for every race.
I think that I understand where you are coming from, but in order for this to happen, "fans" need to shut the **** up about what great racing is because it cannot be defined. Let it happen. Judge it. Move on to the next race. Gluck's poll does not help.
 

Snappy D

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Ah.....The Off Season.
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KTMLew01

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DIDIT

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An old saying...it is what it is...I still enjoy watching NASCAR the same or more than I did years ago. Sure I complain because I don't agree with some of the decisions. But, I do like some of their decisions made over the past several years. Since Brian has been gone, in general I would say NASCAR overall has improved.
 

Spotter22

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You could watch Hudson, Buick, Old's, Chrysler, Chevy, Pontiac, Fords, Mercury or any other car that are manufactured
and they all have one agenda and that is to WIN. Most times the ones who pour the most resources into it usually become the winning teams. Recently (last 15 yrs) Nascar gets to make all the decisions about the car and the engines and they still can't decide what they want or how to achieve it. Some say the faster they go the better, others want the cars to be really hard to drive so the best and smartest drivers win.
The reality is (IMO), if you just go back to a maximum number of cars (2) for each team, an honest points system to determine the champion over the entire year ( no gimmicks), we will see the best racing and the fans will also enjoy going to the track

Nascar keep your hands off and quit trying for game 7 moments for every race.
Recently? NASCAR has been making those decisions since its inception.
 

cheesepuffs

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Recently? NASCAR has been making those decisions since its inception.
It's like when people complain that nowadays NASCAR is "just entertainment".

It has literally always been a show. It has always been NASCAR jockeying the rules to fix the show how they see fit, and to chase entertainment value and ticket sales/viewship. And it will never not be that.
 

Charlie Spencer

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It has always been NASCAR jockeying the rules to fix the show how they see fit, and to chase entertainment value and ticket sales/viewship.
Many people overlook NASCAR's desire to have all brands equally competitive. That's not unique to NASCAR; lots of series do it. Some accomplish it by having different rules for each make, like the 'Balance of Performance' rules in sports cars. NASCAR used to do it by changing the spoiler height and width specs almost weekly, among other methods. Now they basically make the cars identical.

NASCAR may not know what it wants, but what it doesn't want is one manufacturer running roughshod over the others.
 

sdj

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It's like when people complain that nowadays NASCAR is "just entertainment".

It has literally always been a show. It has always been NASCAR jockeying the rules to fix the show how they see fit, and to chase entertainment value and ticket sales/viewship. And it will never not be that.

Good point, if it was not entertaining I would be watching something else, wouldn't we all.
 

2 Sweet

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It'll always be a level playing field. You have a Camaro ZL1, a Mustang GT500, and a Camry TRD. We all know who would lose that race. I think it's funny that the fastest production Toyota of all time is actually a BMW (the new Supra) and the fastest REAL Toyota ever made is a Rav4 Hybrid. How sad is that.

But none of that is relevant, because we aren't racing production vehicles in NASCAR and really haven't in decades. NASCAR has always intervened whenever necessary to keep things fair. Give and take. But at this point, every manufacturer is so close within the confines of the rulebook, it really doesn't matter.
 

hmmm298

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It'll always be a level playing field. You have a Camaro ZL1, a Mustang GT500, and a Camry TRD. We all know who would lose that race. I think it's funny that the fastest production Toyota of all time is actually a BMW (the new Supra) and the fastest REAL Toyota ever made is a Rav4 Hybrid. How sad is that.

But none of that is relevant, because we aren't racing production vehicles in NASCAR and really haven't in decades. NASCAR has always intervened whenever necessary to keep things fair. Give and take. But at this point, every manufacturer is so close within the confines of the rulebook, it really doesn't matter.
Breaking news! Hot Wheels to be 4th manufacturer for Nascar coming in 2024!!
 

10-4

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I'd be a little more happy if they didn't juice up the final 4 cars every year and allow that race to play out naturally. That last race might as well be wrassling.
 

LJ7201

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An old saying...it is what it is...I still enjoy watching NASCAR the same or more than I did years ago. Sure I complain because I don't agree with some of the decisions. But, I do like some of their decisions made over the past several years. Since Brian has been gone, in general I would say NASCAR overall has improved.
To me the new schedule changes was one of the biggest things that improved entertainment value.
 

Team Penske

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Recently? NASCAR has been making those decisions since its inception.
True, however in the beginning, pleasing the fans was their goal and the method to advance the sport. Along the way they lost sight of what is important. It wasn't the France family that built this business, it was the advertising leg a cigarette company.
 

Team Penske

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It's like when people complain that nowadays NASCAR is "just entertainment".

It has literally always been a show. It has always been NASCAR jockeying the rules to fix the show how they see fit, and to chase entertainment value and ticket sales/viewship. And it will never not be that.
I disagree, Nascar is now controlled by the TV industry and their sponsors. That may change soon, however, until Nascar controls each aspect that makes up the financial wellbeing of the entire show, they only have a limited window where they can flex their muscle.
 

Revman

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NASCAR may not know what it wants, but what it doesn't want is one manufacturer running roughshod over the others.
Eh....Camaro 2.0? In fairness, I think they just didn't want them to suck anymore....and if it had been a one year deal as planned, it probably would have worked out....but COVID....and 2021 and development freezes....and you have roughshod. Fixed for next year. Thank God.
 

Revman

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But none of that is relevant, because we aren't racing production vehicles in NASCAR and really haven't in decades.
You **** talk Toyota, and then drop this. Just what is your opinion? IMO--as you noted--racing is an expression of the brand. The question becomes....Do consumers connect with that? This one does. My brand buying decision is really simple, and Toyota's involvement in NASCAR and/or racing is a big part of that. Douchebags who think they are Dale Earnhardt Jr. can go ahead and rev their Camaro ZL-whatevers at a stoplight all they want.
 

StandOnIt

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The reason Winston and others came on board is because the racing product attracted them. They saw an opportunity to make money. TV followed suit. Nothing has changed from that. I would use influence rather than controlled. They all work (at least most) work together to put on the best show for all of the principles, one being the fans.
 
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