Double-file restarts

D

Digger

Guest
ESPN and FOX both said the rule change is imminent and will happen this month.

So, what do you think?
 
At first I liked it, because it worked great for the All Star race, but once I thought about it there is really a lot of difference.
The All-star race isn't for points, dosen't have green flag pit stops, only runs about 1/2 the cars.

If you take today as an example when several cars made green flag pit stops and the caution came out. What where there, 6 or 7 cars then trapped a lap down? At least the way it is if they have a fast car and can get in front of the leader they can get their lap back, as did today, several did. How ever if they all have to go to the rear they don't stand a chance getting their lap back. While they're fighting their way through the field to catch the leader, the leader is in clean air catching the rear of the field (which will be the slower cars) and they will never be the first car a lap down, it'll only be the slowest cars that get the laps back.

Same goes for last week in the Nationwide race when only 2 cars were on the lead lap.

IMHO the very least if they implement this they need to let cars on the tailend of the lead lap go around and be the tail end of the lead lap behind the leaders.

I just think a lot more thought and clarification needs to go into this be for implementation.
 
AndyMarquisLIVE said:
ESPN and FOX both said the rule change is imminent and will happen this month.

So, what do you think?
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Nascar has made a lot of changes but not too many in the middle of the season. I don't think they should do it at least not now.
 
It's not a new rule it's a return to an old rule. I think it's about time they brought it back. I hated the lapped cars up front just getting in the way on restarts. YEA NASCAR.
 
Should of been done at the beginning of the season, to do it in the middle isn't right. Start fresh next year with this rule implemented.
 
I would be willing to bet that if the double file restart is implemented a year from now (or less) people will be complaining about how many cars are finishing off the lead lap.
 
Smoke14 said:
I would be willing to bet that if the double file restart is implemented a year from now (or less) people will be complaining about how many cars are finishing off the lead lap.
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How often does somebody actually race to get one of their laps back?

Normally, they just hold the second place car up while the leader drives away. Makes the races even more boring imo.
 
rules changes should not be made during the current year unless it's a safety issue. what other sport changes the rules after the season starts?
 
Since that have that stupid lucky dog rule, lining up lapped cars on the inside line is no longer needed. Besides, I have never understood why NASCAR wants the lapped cars on the inside, but they get the move over flag as soon as the race goes back to green.
 
AndyMarquisLIVE said:
How often does somebody actually race to get one of their laps back?

Normally, they just hold the second place car up while the leader drives away. Makes the races even more boring imo.
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How many times do fast cars have a flat and go a lap down then can drive away from the leader on a restart?
Or a bunch get caught a lap down by a yellow coming out during green flag stops?

I think the majority are going to whoop and holler and get this rule changed, then cry like babies cause it really screws up drivers that have really fast cars just a little bad luck from fighting back and over coming it.

Take the Nationwide race at Lowe's, how many cars got trapped a lap down? 10 or more? All fast cars and the ones that were actually the fastest and competing for the win all night. If the rain hadn't come to end the race when it did under this new rule it would have taken at least 10 more cautions under perfect scenario's to get those cars back on the lead lap.

I understand the thought and my initial thoughts agreed that those cars that are lapped over and over that can't get out of their own way are holding up the leaders and would be nice to have them out of the way, but I think this rule will create far more problem than it solves by preventing good teams from actually working and earning their way back onto the lead lap.

In regards to this NOT being a new rule, but an old one brought back, No that's not true. The upper level of NASCAR did not do this before. This is a short track, Saturday night racing when heats have 10 - 15 cars rule.

Every local track I raced at also has the rule that if you're involved in the caution, ie; you spin someone out or you get spun out you go to the tail end of the field, You want to do this one too?

Might as well because you'll have guys intentionally spinning others just to bring out cautions so they can get their lap back if you don't.

IMO this will NOT add more exciting racing to these long races, it'll actually hurt competitiveness. A flat tire, caught speeding on pit road under green flag conditions and numerous other things can take the real racers right out of the race.
 
I think this last allstar race woke NASCAR up. Kyle wouldn't have been able to dive to the middle on the restart if there had been lapped cars there. NASCAR finally saw what we spectators have seen and been b*tchin' about for years now.
 
If there had been lapped cars where Kyle wouldn't have been able to drive to the middle?
Your post ain't making a lot of sense, are you talking about restarts or what? Isn't that what we're talking about here? There wouldn't be any lap cars there, the last All Star race all the lap cars were to the rear, those were all lead lap cars. Besides I wouldn't be so sure saying what Kyle can't do, half of what he does people say can't be done but the fact is Kyle was passing cars like crazy going high mostly.
 
He would have been 4th car in line on the outside instead of 4th, 2nd row. There's no way to pass that many cars from the 4th row on a restart.
 
Eagle1 said:
At first I liked it, because it worked great for the All Star race, but once I thought about it there is really a lot of difference.
The All-star race isn't for points, dosen't have green flag pit stops, only runs about 1/2 the cars.

If you take today as an example when several cars made green flag pit stops and the caution came out. What where there, 6 or 7 cars then trapped a lap down? At least the way it is if they have a fast car and can get in front of the leader they can get their lap back, as did today, several did. How ever if they all have to go to the rear they don't stand a chance getting their lap back. While they're fighting their way through the field to catch the leader, the leader is in clean air catching the rear of the field (which will be the slower cars) and they will never be the first car a lap down, it'll only be the slowest cars that get the laps back.

Same goes for last week in the Nationwide race when only 2 cars were on the lead lap.

IMHO the very least if they implement this they need to let cars on the tailend of the lead lap go around and be the tail end of the lead lap behind the leaders.

I just think a lot more thought and clarification needs to go into this be for implementation.
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From what I understand, this wouldn't be the case. The pace car would line up in front of the lead car and stay in front of the lead car. All others would be allowed to circle the track and join in at the rear. That would allow all lead lap cars to be at the front of the double file restart.

Here in Winston Salem, Bowman Gray Stadium has started a rather unique rule for double file restarts and wouldn't this be fun in the Cup series. Here's how it works. As it is now, all cars are lined up single file behind the pace car. When the one lap to go signal is given, the pace car is far enough back from the start finish line that all the drivers know what is coming. A cone is put out at the line and when the cars come to it, they can either go to the outside or stay on the inside. At the stadium, the inside track is the much preferred line, but moving to the outside can allow a driver to make up many spots. Only lead lap cars can make the choice so there isn't any lapped cars able to move up and get in the way. I know this wouldn't work very well with the Cup series, or any of the top three series for that matter, but it sure makes for interesting strategy for the famed quarter mile.
 
tkj24 said:
Nascar has made a lot of changes but not too many in the middle of the season. I don't think they should do it at least not now.
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You must be a new fan, cause there used to be rules changes every week.
 
I don't like that any lap car that stays out when the leader pits during a caution would get his lap back. We already have enough freebies with the Lucky Dog rule. Now not even Morgan Shepherd will get lapped.
 
blue92 said:
I think this last allstar race woke NASCAR up. Kyle wouldn't have been able to dive to the middle on the restart if there had been lapped cars there. NASCAR finally saw what we spectators have seen and been b*tchin' about for years now.
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Yeh but that was a short race, like a saturday night race at your local track. Put this rule into play all season in 400 and 500 mile races and it won't work.
 
I heard on Nascar Now tonight that they are really thinking about this and it could be announced as early as tomorrow and used at Pocono.


I don't like the idea of it.
 
I think it would be alright in Sprint cup with their larger tracks. They already use this rule in the NASCAR Camping World Series East/West and Canadian Tire Series. I don't think it is a very good rule for those series because they run most of their races on short tracks. The inside lane always has an advantage, they are usually better off starting 3rd than 2nd on a restart.
 
DONE! They start the double-file restarts this weekend at Pocono. We'll see how it goes.
 
Grumbling about replacing the rear wing with the old spoiler has been mentioned but I dont think it will happen. There is advertising space on those wings.
 
Well, I guess they lied about it on NASCAR Now since they had a whole segment about them starting this weekend. ;)
 
Spike said:
Grumbling about replacing the rear wing with the old spoiler has been mentioned but I dont think it will happen. There is advertising space on those wings.
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guaranteed to stay then. <g>
 
WNY24Fan said:
DONE! They start the double-file restarts this weekend at Pocono. We'll see how it goes.
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WNY24Fan said:
Well, I guess they lied about it on NASCAR Now since they had a whole segment about them starting this weekend. ;)
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I saw that on ESPN2 last night as well, and Jayski says it's going in to effect this weekend. Not to doubt ESPN or Jayski, but NASCAR hasn't released anything official yet.

That said, they haven't issued any press releases since June 2nd, so it is possible they've been too busy and are behind on some things. They are running 5 races this weekend after all (Cup in Pocono, Nationwide in Music City, Trucks in Texas, and the 2 Grand-Am series' at the Glen).
 
I hope they don't make the rule change in the middle of the season. I think double-file restarts would be good for the sport, but if you make that change in the middle of the season, that's going to make people question the winners of the previous races.

I say just wait until after Homestead.
 
It's official

MRM said:
Been wondering about that myself.
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DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. (June 4, 2009) – The National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing (NASCAR) today announced a change to its race format with the addition of “Double-File Restarts – Shootout Style” throughout each race. Beginning with this weekend at Pocono Raceway, the first- and second-place drivers will line up side-by-side as the green flag flies for each restart.

“We’ve heard the fans loud and clear: ‘double-file restarts – shootout style’ are coming to the NASCAR Sprint Cup Series,” said NASCAR Chairman and CEO Brian France. “This addition to the race format is good for competition and good for the fans.”

“I’m excited about it,” said two-time NASCAR Sprint Cup champion Tony Stewart. “The good thing is that when they drop the green, you’re going to be racing with the guys you’re racing for position instead of trying to clear lapped cars.

“Since NASCAR has adapted the ‘free pass’, I think that’s something that now justifies being able to put those lapped cars to the back and let them race with each other, and let the guys who are racing on the lead lap do the same. I’m behind NASCAR 100% on this.”

NASCAR Sprint Cup Series driver Kevin Harvick said, “I think it’s great that NASCAR is listening to the fans. These new restart procedures are going to make our sport even more exciting than it already is. This will not only benefit the lead lap cars, but also the cars that go a lap down, so you get the best of both worlds.”

NASCAR recently used the “double-file” format for its non-points NASCAR Sprint All-Star Race, which produced an unpredictable finish. The format will be adapted for the NASCAR Nationwide Series and NASCAR Camping World Truck Series in the near future. Under the previous format, cars on the lead lap would restart in a single-file line while cars that had been lapped would start in a line next to them.
Under the new format, the race leader will have the option to restart on the inside or outside lane. The second-place driver would then restart next to the leader. Regardless of where the leader starts, drivers in odd number positions (3rd, 5th, 7th places, etc.) will restart on the inside lane, while drivers in even number positions (4th, 6th, 8th places, etc.) will restart on the outside. All restarts will use the same format regardless of the number of laps remaining in the race.

The first-place driver will continue to control the timing of restarts in a designated zone on the track. Likewise, cars are to stay in line until they reach the start/finish line. The first eligible car a lap or more down will continue to earn one lap back following a caution, which is known as the “free pass.” However, a new element beginning this week will be that the “free pass” will remain in effect the entire race.

Lapped cars choosing to remain on the track will be “waved around” the caution car and will restart the race in respective track position, thus picking up a lap to the leader provided the leader also pits. This will also remove lapped cars from behind the pace car, allowing the leaders to take the green without interference.
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First off, greetings to everyone. I just discovered this forum today. I am looking forward to talking NASCAR with all of you.

On the double file restarts, I for one was getting a little tired of watching a restart where the lead car looked like it was running 13th. This could make for some better racing but I also think we just got ourselves a bunch more late race cautions. I am going to reserve judgement until I see it in action for a few races.

That's what I think anyway.
 
Welcome to the forum infrared41!! I hope you enjoy it here. We get some grumbling going on from time to time, but it's been my favorite forum I've found online. Enjoy!



(PS - I told ya they were going to start the double-file restarts this weekend. ;) I have some connections too along with another person who likes to tell everyone all about it. LOL ;) :D )

I didn't click the google link above so I don't know if it says there will be a moderation in starting order if a lead lap car decided to pit AGAIN. It will then have to start at the back of the lead lap cars.
 
I'm still not a huge fan of doing this during the middle of the season. But I think it's a needed improvement, so I can't complain too much.

We'll see how this turns out.
 
foehammer111 said:
I'm still not a huge fan of doing this during the middle of the season. But I think it's a needed improvement, so I can't complain too much.

We'll see how this turns out.
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yeahthat.gif
 
Lets try it

We might really like it! After all they are doing this change to make US HAPPY! And it may just keep the front car from getting away like they have been doing.
So what if it causes more restarts? After all the restarts are the best parts of most races.
Betsy:rolleyes:
 
Betsy said:
We might really like it! After all they are doing this change to make US HAPPY! And it may just keep the front car from getting away like they have been doing.
So what if it causes more restarts? After all the restarts are the best parts of most races.
Betsy:rolleyes:
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Actually, I don't see how this will cause more restarts. Maybe I'm missing something, but I think this will make for fewer restarts because the leaders wont have slower lapped traffic to deal with. Thus fewer cautions.

Heck, the old phrase "cautions breed more cautions" might not apply anymore if this works as expected.

We'll just have to wait and see.
 
Remember

There will be two seperate races most times the green is dropped. Of course there will be the cars side by side on the lead lap, then there will also be the cars one lap down side by side..
Some of these cars will possibly have two tires and others four and possibly some that stayed out ahead of them... good fodder for another restart.. I can't wait!
Betsy:rolleyes:
 
“We’ve heard the fans loud and clear: ‘double-file restarts – shootout style’ are coming to the NASCAR Sprint Cup Series,” said NASCAR Chairman and CEO Brian France. “This addition to the race format is good for competition and good for the fans.”
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anybody else conjur up a vision of vince mcmahon when reading this? good change but it should have been delayed until next year.
 
I have to agree with you Betsy. It will be like watching a race within a race. I personally think this is one of the best changes NASCAR has made in years. :beerbang:
 
SlowNeasy said:
anybody else conjur up a vision of vince mcmahon when reading this? good change but it should have been delayed until next year.
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Yep I agree, start it at the begining of the season instead of on the fly, but who knows might work ok.
 
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