Drivers miffed over end of race

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BROOKLYN, Mich. -- As Sunday's estimated crowd of 115,000 mostly roared its approval of the race victor after conclusion of the LifeLock 400 at Michigan International Speedway, drivers Matt Kenseth and Brian Vickers stood on pit road and wondered about what might have been.

Actually, they fumed about what they thought should have been.

Both were upset over a variety of things -- not the least of which was their belief that eventual race winner Dale Earnhardt Jr. illegally passed the pace car during the final caution (watch video).

"I knew there was some drama," said Kenseth, who finished third behind Earnhardt and second-place finisher Kasey Kahne. "I knew there was some weird stuff going on. I know he drove past the pace car by 10 car lengths and then he dropped back and shut the engine off -- and I didn't think you could pass the pace car. I was just trying to figure out what in the heck was going on. It was definitely different."

Vickers, who settled for fourth after leading 44 laps, was not only upset about Earnhardt's pass of the pace car but also because of NASCAR's decision to put the No. 8 car of Mark Martin ahead of him before the final restart. In addition, he questioned the fact that Martin's car appeared to then push Kahne's No. 9 Dodge around part of the track during the caution period.

"There were a lot of things that happened there at the end of the race that are big question marks in my mind -- and passing the pace car under caution was just one of them," Vickers said. "You're also supposed to make it around the track unassisted. There were guys pushing each other on fuel-mileage strategies. That's not right. It's definitely not legal, but they let it go.

"And then obviously the call to put the 8 car back in front of us. I don't know why that was, but it definitely cost us a shot at the race. And it was blatantly, obviously wrong. It wasn't like we were side-by-side; we were seven cars ahead of him two laps before the caution came out."

NASCAR official Jim Hunter said that Earnhardt did not violate a rule, saying that he needed only to maintain "a reasonable speed or a reasonable pace" behind the pace car and that once Earnhardt was warned not to surge ahead of it, Earnhardt complied.

Kenseth didn't see it that way.

"There's nothing wrong with going down on the apron. It's everybody's idea to save fuel -- but I didn't think you could pass the pace car," Kenseth said. "The leader would stand on the gas and go 10 car lengths ahead of the pace car and shut the motor off. I thought it was confusing and I had to stay closed up."

Like Vickers, Kenseth also had additional complaints. Mainly he was upset that a NASCAR official slowed his exit from the pits following one stop late in the race.

Hunter admitted that the official in question was too slow to move out of Kenseth's way, and that he would be reprimanded for it. Working as a television analyst Sunday, Kyle Petty joked that the next time an official gets in Kenseth's way, the driver would probably just "throw the official up on the hood and go."

To this, Kenseth joked: "Well, maybe we would have, but he was too big. We thought he would do damage to the fender.

"I'm just kidding. I would never run anybody over and hurt them. I know it's hard to fix every call. There are all kinds of balls and strikes called in our sport, but I wish he would have been paying a little more attention because track position was still important at that point."

Kenseth, who led four times for a total of 41 laps, still earned his best finish of the season.

"This was our best finish of the year, so I'm really excited about that," Kenseth said. "I'm pumped up about what we've done in the points here the last month and a half. We've been able to make a run at it, and we're actually being a contender again. So I'm fired up about that.

"But I can't lie and say that I'm not disappointed that I'm not standing over there in Victory Lane. To me, along with the 48 [of Jimmie Johnson], the 83 [of Vickers] and the 18 [of Kyle Busch] at times, I thought we had the best cars and we didn't get to win the race. Whenever that happens, you're a little disappointed."

Kenseth also couldn't resist a parting shot at the race winner.

"I thought it was a great race," he said. "There was a lot of two- and three- and four-wide racing -- and Junior won, so everything's good."

Vickers also was pleased overall with his own strong finish, but added of Earnhardt: "I don't know. All the fans seem pretty happy with who's in Victory Lane. He did what he had to do. He had a good car all day. He put himself in contention. He did the right strategy.

"But I mean, there were definitely some things that took place at the end of the race that I wouldn't say were legal. But it's not my race to call."
 
:confused:

I didn't see Vickers *****ing and complaining when that caution came out on the last lap at Talladega after he had wrecked Junyer and Jimmie. I thought Kasey Kahne was ahead of him when the caution actually came out, but NASCAR awarded him with the win. He never questioned that finish. :rolleyes:
 
BROOKLYN, Mich. -- As Sunday's estimated crowd of 115,000 mostly roared its approval of the race victor after conclusion of the LifeLock 400 at Michigan International Speedway, drivers Matt Kenseth and Brian Vickers stood on pit road and wondered about what might have been.

Actually, they fumed about what they thought should have been.

Both were upset over a variety of things -- not the least of which was their belief that eventual race winner Dale Earnhardt Jr. illegally passed the pace car during the final caution (watch video).

"I knew there was some drama," said Kenseth, who finished third behind Earnhardt and second-place finisher Kasey Kahne. "I knew there was some weird stuff going on. I know he drove past the pace car by 10 car lengths and then he dropped back and shut the engine off -- and I didn't think you could pass the pace car. I was just trying to figure out what in the heck was going on. It was definitely different."

Vickers, who settled for fourth after leading 44 laps, was not only upset about Earnhardt's pass of the pace car but also because of NASCAR's decision to put the No. 8 car of Mark Martin ahead of him before the final restart. In addition, he questioned the fact that Martin's car appeared to then push Kahne's No. 9 Dodge around part of the track during the caution period.

"There were a lot of things that happened there at the end of the race that are big question marks in my mind -- and passing the pace car under caution was just one of them," Vickers said. "You're also supposed to make it around the track unassisted. There were guys pushing each other on fuel-mileage strategies. That's not right. It's definitely not legal, but they let it go.

"And then obviously the call to put the 8 car back in front of us. I don't know why that was, but it definitely cost us a shot at the race. And it was blatantly, obviously wrong. It wasn't like we were side-by-side; we were seven cars ahead of him two laps before the caution came out."

NASCAR official Jim Hunter said that Earnhardt did not violate a rule, saying that he needed only to maintain "a reasonable speed or a reasonable pace" behind the pace car and that once Earnhardt was warned not to surge ahead of it, Earnhardt complied.

Kenseth didn't see it that way.

"There's nothing wrong with going down on the apron. It's everybody's idea to save fuel -- but I didn't think you could pass the pace car," Kenseth said. "The leader would stand on the gas and go 10 car lengths ahead of the pace car and shut the motor off. I thought it was confusing and I had to stay closed up."

Like Vickers, Kenseth also had additional complaints. Mainly he was upset that a NASCAR official slowed his exit from the pits following one stop late in the race.

Hunter admitted that the official in question was too slow to move out of Kenseth's way, and that he would be reprimanded for it. Working as a television analyst Sunday, Kyle Petty joked that the next time an official gets in Kenseth's way, the driver would probably just "throw the official up on the hood and go."

To this, Kenseth joked: "Well, maybe we would have, but he was too big. We thought he would do damage to the fender.

"I'm just kidding. I would never run anybody over and hurt them. I know it's hard to fix every call. There are all kinds of balls and strikes called in our sport, but I wish he would have been paying a little more attention because track position was still important at that point."

Kenseth, who led four times for a total of 41 laps, still earned his best finish of the season.

"This was our best finish of the year, so I'm really excited about that," Kenseth said. "I'm pumped up about what we've done in the points here the last month and a half. We've been able to make a run at it, and we're actually being a contender again. So I'm fired up about that.

"But I can't lie and say that I'm not disappointed that I'm not standing over there in Victory Lane. To me, along with the 48 [of Jimmie Johnson], the 83 [of Vickers] and the 18 [of Kyle Busch] at times, I thought we had the best cars and we didn't get to win the race. Whenever that happens, you're a little disappointed."

Kenseth also couldn't resist a parting shot at the race winner.

"I thought it was a great race," he said. "There was a lot of two- and three- and four-wide racing -- and Junior won, so everything's good."

Vickers also was pleased overall with his own strong finish, but added of Earnhardt: "I don't know. All the fans seem pretty happy with who's in Victory Lane. He did what he had to do. He had a good car all day. He put himself in contention. He did the right strategy.

"But I mean, there were definitely some things that took place at the end of the race that I wouldn't say were legal. But it's not my race to call."


Not penalizing Earnhardt for passing the pace car (more than once) is just NASCAR's way of helping their cash cow win a race. It's been seen before; some rules only apply to some drivers.
 
Not penalizing Earnhardt for passing the pace car (more than once) is just NASCAR's way of helping their cash cow win a race. It's been seen before; some rules only apply to some drivers.

This is exactly why there are "junyer haters." Most people don't like incidents where rules apply to some and not all. It makes me wish he didn't win...
 
Pushing another car is not against the rules unless it is the last lap and then the car must make it around the track under its own power.

The passing of the pace car was a surprise since in the past, this has been a violation of NASCAR rules.

Seems a few years back NASCAR changed the rules after the finish at Talledega when out of control "Junior nation" followers nearly tore the place apart. Is there another rule change in the offing making an exemption if a car passes the pace car while trying to save fuel ?? :D
 
Pushing another car is not against the rules unless it is the last lap and then the car must make it around the track under its own power.

The passing of the pace car was a surprise since in the past, this has been a violation of NASCAR rules.

Seems a few years back NASCAR changed the rules after the finish at Talledega when out of control "Junior nation" followers nearly tore the place apart. Is there another rule change in the offing making an exemption if a car passes the pace car while trying to save fuel ?? :D

If Nascar addresses it at all, they'll probably claim that the rules actually applies to passing the pace car on a restart prior to the pace car entering pit road. And really, does anyone here know exactly what the rule actually says?
 
Dave Despain pointed out, that the officials of Nascar couldn't possibly make a call against Jr. at that point in the race, they would have had no escape route from Jr. Nation. LOL Duane:D
 
Dave Despain pointed out, that the officials of Nascar couldn't possibly make a call against Jr. at that point in the race, they would have had no escape route from Jr. Nation. LOL Duane:D

Funny, I was thinking about that (hadn't watched wind tunnel yet) a little while ago. I don't think black flagging junior at this point would have been a wise move no matter what the reason. MIR would probably be a burning pile of rubble now.....:D
 
NASCAR rules prohibit anyone from passing the pace car during a caution, but Earnhardt was allowed to pull in front of the pace car at least twice to save fuel. The sanctioning body eventually warned him not to do it, but by then he had saved enough to win the LifeLock 400 on fumes. Earnhardt admitted he stretched the rules -- and NASCAR's patience -- but not enough to give the victory back. "I got a little greedy," he said. "I can understand how it looked, especially if you're not a Dale Jr. fan. But I got the trophy; I got the points."(Augusta Chronicle)(6-16-2008)


Junior Steals a Win at Michigan
6/16/08: SOZ Studios, MI - By Dennis Michelsen "DMIC" (RaceTalkRadio.com)

As they say in basketball a foul isn't a foul until the referee blows his whistle. On Sunday at Michigan International Speedway Dale Earnhardt Jr was the benefactor of a no call by NASCAR officials. Taking a gamble to make it to the end on fuel mileage, Tony Eury Jr's strategy was close to backfiring on him when a late caution flag flew. Dale Earnhardt Jr passed the pace car several times in order to shut off his engine and coast to conserve fuel. While this is against NASCAR's rules, it was a no-call on this occasion. Dale Earnhardt Jr stole a win on gas mileage at Michigan.

Hero or Zero Again

A huge portion of Junior Nation was getting ready to hang Tony Eury Jr in effigy when that next to last caution came out. Dale Earnhardt Jr was on his way to victory when Sam Hornish Jr spun bringing out the caution with just three laps to go. It was already going to be tight on fuel based on a two hundred-lap race, but now the race was going into overtime! Once again Eury Jr would be criticized for keeping Junior out when everyone else pitted for a splash and go. Thankfully due to NASCAR's no-call on Dale Earnhardt Jr passing the pace car Eury Jr is a hero instead of a zero in the eyes of Junior Nation this week!

NASCAR Needs Consistent Rules

Just a few short weeks ago NASCAR penalized Dale Earnhardt Jr for activity during the caution flag only to take back the penalty before the race re-started. This week NASCAR warned Junior about passing the pace car and yet once again he passed the pace car and didn't get penalized. The NBA is in the middle of the crosshairs of the media over the allegations that officials fixed games. A no-call in NASCAR can go a long way to helping a team win a race. Imagine if Greg Biffle's team had not been penalized for running over their hose? The equipment didn't leave the pit box and technically it was not run over, it was snagged by the front of the car. But the No. 16 team was penalized ending their chance for victory. NASCAR flat out blew a call late in the race when they made Brian Vickers give up a position to the No. 8 car. That ruling cost Vickers any chance at a win. NASCAR needs to make sure that penalties are enforced and this week they missed a call when Junior passed the pace car more than once.

Ironic Way to Win

In the closing laps Dale Earnhardt Jr was fading back through he pack. Ironically if he had been still racing in the top five the gas mileage strategy would not have been used! Earlier this year Junior had the strongest car on more than one occasion only to have the breaks of the race conspire against his visiting victory lane! This week he did not have the best car and would have been lucky to hang on for a top ten finish if a caution had come out with 30 laps to go. But this time around the Crew Chief that some Junior fans seem to hate picked a winning strategy allowing the team to steal the win. I wonder how many races it will take for those same fans to turn on Tony Eury Jr again? One thing that I can guarantee is that it will not take another seventy-six races until that next win!

Good to the Last Drop

Dale Earnhardt Jr just made it to the finish line in the Life Lock 400 at Michigan International Speedway. There is very little chance that he would have won without passing the pace car while coasting around under caution. Junior needed each and every drop of fuel to break that winless drought and silence his critics. It won't be long until victory number two and this team has shown the kind of consistency that wins championships. Now they need a few more wins to get those coveted bonus points for the playoff run. NASCAR's no-call came into play, which will give everyone lots to talk about all week long. Dale Earnhardt Jr and his team stole a win on fuel mileage but the champagne tasted just as sweet!

Click the LISTEN LIVE button on the main page at www.racetalkradio.com to listen to the unedited post race press conference with the winning team at MIS.
 
Funny, I was thinking about that (hadn't watched wind tunnel yet) a little while ago. I don't think black flagging junior at this point would have been a wise move no matter what the reason. MIR would probably be a burning pile of rubble now.....:D
You mean MIS? :confused:
 
Dave Despain pointed out, that the officials of Nascar couldn't possibly make a call against Jr. at that point in the race, they would have had no escape route from Jr. Nation. LOL Duane:D
You Kyle Busch fans and Junyer haters are mouth breathers. :rolleyes:

There have been plenty of instances where a lead car has passed the pace car under yellow.

You guys point this one out because you're mad that Junyer won. :rolleyes:
 
You Kyle Busch fans and Junyer haters are mouth breathers. :rolleyes:

There have been plenty of instances where a lead car has passed the pace car under yellow.

You guys point this one out because you're mad that Junyer won. :rolleyes:


I'm not mad that Jr. won, I'm just pointing out a fact. There is no passing of the pace car allowed. It is a rule, but seldom inforced. If it were not illegal to pass the pace car then NASCAR wouldn't have warned Jr. not to do it again.
If it were Kyle Busch or Robby Gordon passing the pace car I think NASCAR would have inforced the rule.
I'm a Ford fan, firstly; mainly a Roush Racing fan, but it doesn't bother me if Kyle Busch wins either. I like his will to win, I like his attitude and I like the way that he drives a racecar...and I'm not a Jr. hater.
 
I'm not mad that Jr. won, I'm just pointing out a fact. There is no passing of the pace car allowed. It is a rule, but seldom inforced. If it were not illegal to pass the pace car then NASCAR wouldn't have warned Jr. not to do it again.
If it were Kyle Busch or Robby Gordon passing the pace car I think NASCAR would have inforced the rule.
I'm a Ford fan, firstly; mainly a Roush Racing fan, but it doesn't bother me if Kyle Busch wins either. I like his will to win, I like his attitude and I like the way that he drives a racecar...and I'm not a Jr. hater.
It happens all the time. Why do you guys wait until it's Junyer to point it out? I can't count how many times I've seen the leaders pass the pace car.

No, I don't think NASCAR would've enforced the rule if it was Kyle. Robby = yes. Kyle, right now, is NASCAR's new golden boy. As far as NASCAR is concerned, Kyle can do no wrong. If that wasn't the case, they would take those points away from KY after wrecking Hornaday (and you can't say, seriously, that it wasn't intentional).
 
You, VADirt and the mudslinger. :owned:

I see this happen in the NASCAR races all the time. Go back to your TIVO and watch the Pocono race.

Whoa, wait, what the hell did I say??? If anything, I gave an argument against a penalty:

VaDirt said:
If Nascar addresses it at all, they'll probably claim that the rules actually is really meant to passing the pace car on a restart prior to the pace car entering pit road. And really, does anyone here know exactly what the rule actually says?
 
Maybe he was just playing with the pace car driver like his DADDY did when he was bumping it.
 
http://autoracingsport.com/nascar/several-drivers-upset-dale-jr-passed-the-pace-car/

I say once was enough to pass the pacecar.,..the rule is fairly clear.

Where's the rule though? Have you seen it, other than stated in the articles such as the one you linked to?

And actually, upon further reading of the article you linked, someone did come up with a quote of the rule, which is stated fairly clearly. And in this case, Jr was clearly within the rule book.

“Should a driver overrun the pace car, he may avoid penalty
by slowing and allowing the pace car to pass him.”
 
Where's the rule though? Have you seen it, other than stated in the articles such as the one you linked to?

And actually, upon further reading of the article you linked, someone did come up with a quote of the rule, which is stated fairly clearly. And in this case, Jr was clearly within the rule book.

“Should a driver overrun the pace car, he may avoid penalty
by slowing and allowing the pace car to pass him.”

Jr. passed the pace car three times....
 
Jr. passed the pace car three times....

And? He also fell back behind the pace car 3 times. And the MOST important part, he was behind the pace car at the restart. Besides, look at it this way. If a driver is black flagged, he can ignore the black flag, right? Hell, he gets repeated warnings about the black flag before he's stopped being scored. What's the difference here? Jr got warned a couple times, and then stopped.

Oh, just because it's Jr, you feel Nascar gave him the win....

Face it, he won, it's in the books. Move on to next week.
 
Whoa, wait, what the hell did I say??? If anything, I gave an argument against a penalty:
Didn't seem that way...but you're right.

The KY fans are just mad because Jr wasn't screwed...AGAIN! After all, we know Junyer would have a win this season if it wasn't for Bucky, bobbyford and mudslinger's favorite driver. :D
 
Jr. passed the pace car three times....
This happens all the time. The only reason it's a big deal now is because Matt Kenseth is an effing crybaby.

In Matt's little world, everybody's out to screw Matt Kenseth. Anytime he's in a wreck, it's because somebody was out there racing with the sole intention of wrecking him, and anytime he looses, it's because NASCAR and everybody else was out to hold him down. :rolleyes:
 
And? He also fell back behind the pace car 3 times. And the MOST important part, he was behind the pace car at the restart. Besides, look at it this way. If a driver is black flagged, he can ignore the black flag, right? Hell, he gets repeated warnings about the black flag before he's stopped being scored. What's the difference here? Jr got warned a couple times, and then stopped.

Oh, just because it's Jr, you feel Nascar gave him the win....

Face it, he won, it's in the books. Move on to next week.
Even though Junyer would've won Richmond, had KY not screwed him.:mad:

Junyer won, within the rules. I don't hear Vickers whining about Talladega 2006, and I don't hear Matt whining about Kansas last year when Biffle won or all the fuel mileage races he won.

I just consider the sources here. Kenseth's a crybaby who thinks NASCAR's out to screw him and Vickers is a neverwas who knows it's a miracle when he finishes in the top 10 so he wants NASCAR to call it a win.
 
This happens all the time. The only reason it's a big deal now is because Matt Kenseth is an effing crybaby.

In Matt's little world, everybody's out to screw Matt Kenseth. Anytime he's in a wreck, it's because somebody was out there racing with the sole intention of wrecking him, and anytime he looses, it's because NASCAR and everybody else was out to hold him down. :rolleyes:

All I'm saying is that the 88 was the only car that passed the pace car and the only car that was warned not to do it again...
 
Brian Vickers is getting very close to winning not one but several races. You don't want to get him miffed now if you're on another team.
 
You Kyle Busch fans and Junyer haters are mouth breathers. :rolleyes:

:


Going to have to leave me out of this one, I like Jr. OK, I was only pointing out a joke Despain made about the situation, your getting kinda touchy there!! LOL Duane:nyanya:
 
This happens all the time. The only reason it's a big deal now is because Matt Kenseth is an effing crybaby.

In Matt's little world, everybody's out to screw Matt Kenseth. Anytime he's in a wreck, it's because somebody was out there racing with the sole intention of wrecking him, and anytime he looses, it's because NASCAR and everybody else was out to hold him down. :rolleyes:

This is one ignorant post....just not accurate at all. Stop posting with your emotions & use some sense, man.:D
 
This happens all the time. The only reason it's a big deal now is because Matt Kenseth is an effing crybaby.

In Matt's little world, everybody's out to screw Matt Kenseth. Anytime he's in a wreck, it's because somebody was out there racing with the sole intention of wrecking him, and anytime he looses, it's because NASCAR and everybody else was out to hold him down. :rolleyes:

I've been pretty quiet and letting you spout off. It seems you are a bigger crybaby than any driver.
 
This is one ignorant post....just not accurate at all. Stop posting with your emotions & use some sense, man.:D
I did.

It seems everytime Matt loses a race, it's either because Tony the terrorist and Jeff Gordon were out there to wreck him or NASCAR did something to keep him from winning. Every time he lands in a wreck, it's because somebody went out there for the sole purpose of crashing him out of the race.

I lost a lot of respect for Matt Kenseth a few years back when he rammed into Harvick. He rammed into Harvick on the backstretch and, for no reason, lifted Harvick's rear end, and Harvick retaliated coming to the caution. Then, Kenseth wrecked Harvick under yellow and tried playing ignorant to the whole thing about not knowing why Harvick was so upset and all that.

Oh yeah, and then there's the incident where he wrecked Jeff Gordon on the last lap at Bristol.

Kenseth is no saint.
 
Very few of them are saints. They are in a highly charged emotional atmosphere at the time. Not many people can be driving 180+ mph and get run into and then be able to keep their cool. Many complain about officiating just maybe it doesn't make the TV.

But then I don't have to look too far to see some whining and complaining about the weather, other drivers around them, their work conditions,etc. So maybe one shouldn't be so quick to call out others for complaining when it almost appears their entire life is spent complaining about some aspect of theirs...

But thats just me...
 
But then I don't have to look too far to see some whining and complaining about the weather, other drivers around them, their work conditions,etc. So maybe one shouldn't be so quick to call out others for complaining when it almost appears their entire life is spent complaining about some aspect of theirs... But thats just me...

:XXROFL: and doubtful it is just you. :XXROFL:
 
This happens all the time. The only reason it's a big deal now is because Matt Kenseth is an effing crybaby.

In Matt's little world, everybody's out to screw Matt Kenseth. Anytime he's in a wreck, it's because somebody was out there racing with the sole intention of wrecking him, and anytime he looses, it's because NASCAR and everybody else was out to hold him down. :rolleyes:

That's why he's a perfect fit for Roush. :D
 
There is one race winner and 42 race whiners. The winner is the only not whining.:cool:
 
There is one race winner and 42 race whiners. The winner is the only not whining.:cool:

Not true. Remember everyone's whipping boy, KB, whined about his car not being any good after a race he won. But, I get your point and it is 99+% accurate.
 
And? He also fell back behind the pace car 3 times. And the MOST important part, he was behind the pace car at the restart. Besides, look at it this way. If a driver is black flagged, he can ignore the black flag, right? Hell, he gets repeated warnings about the black flag before he's stopped being scored. What's the difference here? Jr got warned a couple times, and then stopped.

Oh, just because it's Jr, you feel Nascar gave him the win....

Face it, he won, it's in the books. Move on to next week.

Robby Gordon ignored the black flag and should of won the race, but they gave it to Harvick. That race still makes me sick.

Andy, please call Kyle Bush something differnt. I thought you have been bad mouthing my state there for a bit. Maybe KYB or sumthing.
 
SHEEEEEEEEEE-IT !!!!!!
All this time I thought you were talking about that there KY jelly stuff and trying to figure what it had to do with breathing through the mouth. Although several strange scenarios came to mind. :D
 
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