Earnhardt, Johnson lash out

HoneyBadger

HoneyBadger

I love short track racing (Taylor's Version)
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Johnson = vanilla my ass.

JimmieJohnson
And if you think either of us could have won from 25th, which is where we were at the caution, you're even more crazy.
14 hours ago

JimmieJohnson
I didn't leave Jr hanging, you people are crazy. When my crew tells me to pit, I pit. Steve and Chad sort out the details.
14 hours ago

Earnhardt = not a fan of this crap.


"What kind of move can you make?" he said. "I mean, Jesus, man! What kind of frickin' move can you make when you're racing like this? There ain't no move you can make. You just hold it on the mat and try not to wreck into each other – and you see how good we are at that."


http://www.sbnation.com/nascar/2011...na-international-speedway-nascar-results-2011
 
What specifically did NASCAR do to cause this style of "racing" to begin with? It seems to me that the teams began using this strategy on their own.
 
PettyBlue said:
What specifically did NASCAR do to cause this style of "racing" to begin with? It seems to me that the teams began using this strategy on their own.
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I actually had this same thought since the begining of the season...I assume that they techincally COULD race a different way...but wouldn't be as fast as the two car hook up deal...
 
PettyBlue said:
What specifically did NASCAR do to cause this style of "racing" to begin with? It seems to me that the teams began using this strategy on their own.
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It has to have something to do with the COT. I mean you NEVER even saw bump drafting in the turns in the old car but now they are stuck together all the way around. They are gonna have to change the nose or tail of the cars so they don't fit together perfectly.
 
Beacsue they went out of their way to make sure thr front and rear bumpers lined up perfectly. And unintended consequence, but one the drivers take advantage of. I do blame thr drivers as much as NASCAR on this crap
 
PettyBlue said:
What specifically did NASCAR do to cause this style of "racing" to begin with? It seems to me that the teams began using this strategy on their own.
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An answer from my perspective:

Designed and created a race car which has front and rear bumpers identical to every other race car, which in conjunction with restrictor plates, encourage this type of racing at the two super speedways.
 
To change it is easy, just like NA$CAR puts the restrictor plates on they can change the aero for the cars at these tracks so it disturbs the cars and won't allow them to hook up like they do now. Maybe for only these tracks put the wings back on them.
 
Jack Roush, for one, agrees with many of you:

Jack Roush, co-owner of the winning team, says there are ways to break up the two-car packs, but added that, in his view, “it’s exciting racing.”

“You fix the front and the back of the car so if they have contact, there is an inclined angle that would drive the rear wheels off the ground to stop it,” he said. “It's easy to stop it if NASCAR really wants to stop it.

“They organized the front and the rear plane, vertical planes of the cars, so they could be conducive to push one another, and they wouldn't have that problem that they had before.”
 
Johnson seemed more than happy with it at Talledega.

I guess maybe dropping 3 places to 6th on the points isn't what he had in mind.
 
nascage said:
“You fix the front and the back of the car so if they have contact, there is an inclined angle that would drive the rear wheels off the ground to stop it,” he said. “It's easy to stop it if NASCAR really wants to stop it.
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better to angle the bumpers so the pushers front wheels raise off the ground. he'd care more about wrecking himself than the guy in front of him.
 
VaDirt said:
Beacsue they went out of their way to make sure thr front and rear bumpers lined up perfectly. And unintended consequence, but one the drivers take advantage of. I do blame thr drivers as much as NASCAR on this crap
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It's not the drivers fault, they just go with what they are given, the smooth surfaces at both Dega and Daytona have a lot to do with it too. But most of all it is the plates and the aero on the COTs. Get rid of the plates so they can actually slingshot around on their own and you won't have the 2x2 crap. Without the plates they would actually have the ability to pass each other. Of course there would have to be a smaller engine package to lower the horsepower.
 
Mopardh9 said:
It's not the drivers fault, they just go with what they are given, the smooth surfaces at both Dega and Daytona have a lot to do with it too. But most of all it is the plates and the aero on the COTs. Get rid of the plates so they can actually slingshot around on their own and you won't have the 2x2 crap. Without the plates they would actually have the ability to pass each other. Of course there would have to be a smaller engine package to lower the horsepower.
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They say they won't go to a V6 B/c of the increased cost.

Well if NASCAR would pull their heads out of their dark abyss', they'd realize a V6 wouldn't be the answer. Seems to me, the teams already spend a ton on R&D for the 4 RP races.....

Take the 350 they run now, and take a half inch of stroke out of them with the same bore and a smaller carb. A 350 is 4" bore 3.5" stroke. Keep the 4" bore, go to a 3" stroke, makes a 302. If they're making ~800 on 350 (2.28 HP per CI), then on a 302, they should make 690. Choke the engine using a smaller carburetor, and that should hold them under 7000 RPM. Plus, with the same cc head, the compression ratio will be lower, putting HP down closer to 650, maybe 625.

Less displacement
MAX RPM set by choke, not part fatigue
less induction volume
shorter stroke + same heads = lower compression ratio
no plates

Problem solved. No increase costs, except for a different rotating assembly.
 
New asphalt (the old was worn out), didn't help. No handling challenges on a flat out track, it should be no surprise, even expected to suck.


If you need another indicator that it's no longer in a drivers hands, just consider that Steven Wallace was running up front late in the Nationwide race at the famed joint, that can't be a race (game, set, and match).
 
They don't need to mess with the bumpers, the current design lines up front to rear and with the double driver side rail, making the cars much safer. Drivers are'nt getting hurt even though they wreck these cars left and right.

The aerodynamics of this latest incarnation of the COT baffles me? Why can't multiple cars "Suck up" anymore? Why do the cars have to be in contact with one another to stay up to speed? What happened to the "Side Drafting"? Seems like the only thing the same is they can still wad up a pile of cars in one shot!
Do they need to " Dirty Up " the cars to bring multiple car drafting back?

Another question I have is did NASCAR institute a automatic "Green/White/Checker" rule at all superspeedways while I was'nt paying attention?
 
Brian Vickers let the cat out of the bag earlier today:

@BrianLVickers

Having lunch with @jimmiejohnson. He was saying how excited he was to pit strategically to keep Jr. from winning...wow Ive heard it all now!

6 hours ago
 
nascage said:
Brian Vickers let the cat out of the bag earlier today:

@BrianLVickers

Having lunch with @jimmiejohnson. He was saying how excited he was to pit strategically to keep Jr. from winning...wow Ive heard it all now!

6 hours ago
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Dude, Jimmie Johnson is funny as hell on Twitter.
 
Magnethead said:
They say they won't go to a V6 B/c of the increased cost.

Well if NASCAR would pull their heads out of their dark abyss', they'd realize a V6 wouldn't be the answer. Seems to me, the teams already spend a ton on R&D for the 4 RP races.....

Take the 350 they run now, and take a half inch of stroke out of them with the same bore and a smaller carb. A 350 is 4" bore 3.5" stroke. Keep the 4" bore, go to a 3" stroke, makes a 302. If they're making ~800 on 350 (2.28 HP per CI), then on a 302, they should make 690. Choke the engine using a smaller carburetor, and that should hold them under 7000 RPM. Plus, with the same cc head, the compression ratio will be lower, putting HP down closer to 650, maybe 625.

Less displacement
MAX RPM set by choke, not part fatigue
less induction volume
shorter stroke + same heads = lower compression ratio
no plates

Problem solved. No increase costs, except for a different rotating assembly.
Click to expand...

I think they would have to go with a smaller V-8 than that, 675hp will get you way over 200mph. The plate motors now are pushing about 550-600, You would have to keep the HP around 500-525 with no plate, easily done though, and I have no idea why Nascar won't do this.
 
The bottom line to me is simple...something has to give with this plate racing 2x2 stuff! Fans hate it, drivers hate it...I mean is there anyone who actually likes it?!? For the first time in..well...ever that I can remember I considered not watching the race while I was home, free all evening and it was on. I mean I think it is a joke..and it seems that the drivers agree.....
 
Mopardh9 said:
I think they would have to go with a smaller V-8 than that, 675hp will get you way over 200mph. The plate motors now are pushing about 550-600, You would have to keep the HP around 500-525 with no plate, easily done though, and I have no idea why Nascar won't do this.
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Are they "professional" drivers or not? Take the plates off, run em 225 mph if they want. thats how you fix it.:beerbang:
 
RCR4Life said:
Are they "professional" drivers or not? Take the plates off, run em 225 mph if they want. thats how you fix it.:beerbang:
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And when a "big one" sends a car over the fence and into the grandstand, killing a few people, NASCAR will get to deal with the PR fallout of such a horrific event.....so no, just no.
 
Mopardh9 said:
I think they would have to go with a smaller V-8 than that, 675hp will get you way over 200mph. The plate motors now are pushing about 550-600, You would have to keep the HP around 500-525 with no plate, easily done though, and I have no idea why Nascar won't do this.
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Like i said, why re-develop an engine for the plate races. The teams probably spend 100+ hours with the plate motors on the dyno. Just change the rotating assembly, and require the same cc cylinder head. Lowers compression ratio, reduces the displacement, overall takes power away. Choke with the carb so they don't try to run at 11,000 RPM.
 
Magnethead said:
Like i said, why re-develop an engine for the plate races. The teams probably spend 100+ hours with the plate motors on the dyno. Just change the rotating assembly, and require the same cc cylinder head. Lowers compression ratio, reduces the displacement, overall takes power away. Choke with the carb so they don't try to run at 11,000 RPM.
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I'm on the same page with you here, I just think you would have to get the HP in the 500 range to keep the speeds in the 190-195 range. I've been saying this for years that Nascar needs to change the engine package and get rid of the plate. Not sure if changing the carb and choking the engine wouldn't create the same problem that the plate does?
 
Mopardh9 said:
I'm on the same page with you here, I just think you would have to get the HP in the 500 range to keep the speeds in the 190-195 range. I've been saying this for years that Nascar needs to change the engine package and get rid of the plate. Not sure if changing the carb and choking the engine wouldn't create the same problem that the plate does?
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no, b/c the plate makes it where there's zero throttle response- you get out of it, and you're %^$#ed. At least with a smaller carb, there's still bottom end response, you can pedal it and get caught back up, also would make it so it didn't take 1.5 laps to get up to speed. I just can't see them trying to turn 11,000 RPM (b/c of the shorter stroke) at the plate tracks.

either use the smaller carb, or somehow limit them to 7-8000 using the new fuel injection unit or MSD box, or using the gear rule combined with aero resistance and a tall gear, something like a 2.85. With no stroke and a taller gear, they couldn't overcome aero resistance at some point...would require R&D.
 
Magnethead said:
no, b/c the plate makes it where there's zero throttle response- you get out of it, and you're %^$#ed. At least with a smaller carb, there's still bottom end response, you can pedal it and get caught back up, also would make it so it didn't take 1.5 laps to get up to speed. I just can't see them trying to turn 11,000 RPM (b/c of the shorter stroke) at the plate tracks.

either use the smaller carb, or somehow limit them to 7-8000 using the new fuel injection unit or MSD box, or using the gear rule combined with aero resistance and a tall gear, something like a 2.85. With no stroke and a taller gear, they couldn't overcome aero resistance at some point...would require R&D.
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I wasn't sure about the throttle response, what you said makes a lot of sense, send it in the Speed Channel maybe they will mention it on air. I just don't know why the crew chiefs and drivers are so afraid to say anything about how crappy the racing is on the plate tracks. Somebody needs to step up and fix this abortion they now call racing at Daytona and Dega.
 
Mopardh9 said:
I just don't know why the crew chiefs and drivers are so afraid to say anything about how crappy the racing is on the plate tracks.
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umm, secret penalties? hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil...about nascar. <g>
 
I think the thing now is no longer an engine/horsepower/plate problem. The new aero package does not allow the cars to run the draft in the large pack formation anymore, so they have to draft in pairs. There is no solution to the super speedway plate tracks. Limiting horsepower will still not allow them to go back to pack drafting. Outside of redesigning the cars aero-wise or have a plate track only template, there is no solution to these tracks.
 
BobbyFord said:
I think the thing now is no longer an engine/horsepower/plate problem. The new aero package does not allow the cars to run the draft in the large pack formation anymore, so they have to draft in pairs. There is no solution to the super speedway plate tracks. Limiting horsepower will still not allow them to go back to pack drafting. Outside of redesigning the cars aero-wise or have a plate track only template, there is no solution to these tracks.
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taking the plates away and giving them 95% throttle response might actually let them race, rather than twiddle their thumbs until 10 to go....
 
Magnethead said:
taking the plates away and giving them 95% throttle response might actually let them race, rather than twiddle their thumbs until 10 to go....
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Sure but they'll still have to draft and the cars are so squirrely that they can only draft in pairs.
 
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