Expectations for 88 now

J

jep88fan

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What are your honest and realistic expectations of the 88 team now?

Could they take one of the other teams' cars and put the 88s colors on it this week? Whitesell has proven to be a good decision maker as crew chief. Junior has always liked Dover. I feel it's really too soon to say win. Plus after listening to his short interview, it sounded like he wasn't too happy with the decision.

I also think the chase is out of the question this year. Too many drivers to leap frog. But there will be wins, yes plural, this year.

Long term, who will be the full time chief? I've heard everything from Hammonds or Larry Mac (local radio stations speculating that, using "interim" as their arguement) to Ray Evernham.
 
I don't see Hammond, Larry Mac, or Ray doing anything. Two of them have been away from the cars for too many years --- besides not having ANY hands-on experience with the new car.

Ray flatly said "no", he would not be a CC again.
 
I don't see Ray coming back, but if offered the right lucrative deal who knows. I see Junior winning a few races and just missing the Chase.
 
jep88fan said:
Could they take one of the other teams' cars and put the 88s colors on it this week? Whitesell has proven to be a good decision maker as crew chief. Junior has always liked Dover. I feel it's really too soon to say win. Plus after listening to his short interview, it sounded like he wasn't too happy with the decision.
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This has already happened. Before heading to Dover this week, they emptied the hauler and pulled in two cars that were to be used as a base of the so-called, 'Hendrick Setup'. I did not hear the interview. Do you have a link? :confused:

jep88fan said:
Long term, who will be the full time chief? I've heard everything from Hammonds or Larry Mac (local radio stations speculating that, using "interim" as their arguement) to Ray Evernham.
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Jeff Hammond or Larry Mac! Are you kidding me? Never. At least, this fan hopes not. Ray Evernham, I can't see that happening either. That guy had a great career as a crew chief. I can't see him wanting to do anything that would tarnish that legacy. I think it will simply be a short term solution turning into a long term solution. I think that begins the week after Dover @ Pocono with interim crew chief Lance McGrew and chassis specialist Rex Stump. If they handle the new, high pressure, situation, they'll be there for a long time to come. :beerbang:

My expectations are simply some top 10's turning into top 5's this year. Those top 5's will eventually turn into some wins somewhere down the road.
 
man i just don't know. i can't believe there was even talk of Ray cause like someone already said the man has already been there & done that. why would he want to go from part owner back to car chief for Jr's struggling team. the expectations would skyrocket & he's too old for all that drama. my personal opinion is that Jr needs to want it, I mean really really want it bad. he's never been the type the race anyone hard anywhere other than the plate tracks, that needs to change. he needs to start going into every race like it's the last one before the chase. maybe then we'll get some results cause it's pretty pathetic when Mark Martin's 50 year old butt comes back & wins two races in less than a third of the amount of starts that Jr's had in Hendricks equipment...
 
I also have a question... If Jr is still as poor of a finisher a year from now as he has been the last five years who are we going to blame?
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
This has already happened. Before heading to Dover this week, they emptied the hauler and pulled in two cars that were to be used as a base of the so-called, 'Hendrick Setup'. I did not hear the interview. Do you have a link? :confused:



Jeff Hammond or Larry Mac! Are you kidding me? Never. At least, this fan hopes not. Ray Evernham, I can't see that happening either. That guy had a great career as a crew chief. I can't see him wanting to do anything that would tarnish that legacy. I think it will simply be a short term solution turning into a long term solution. I think that begins the week after Dover @ Pocono with interim crew chief Lance McGrew and chassis specialist Rex Stump. If they handle the new, high pressure, situation, they'll be there for a long time to come. :beerbang:

My expectations are simply some top 10's turning into top 5's this year. Those top 5's will eventually turn into some wins somewhere down the road.
Click to expand...

He already tarnished himself with Erin Crocker.
 
Smoke14 said:
I also have a question... If Jr is still as poor of a finisher a year from now as he has been the last five years who are we going to blame?
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You may have to limit your range to a more recent period of time. Over the past five years, he's 10th on the list of average finish @ 16.109. That's puts him in some pretty good company. Maybe you need to change your range to the last couple of years. :D

On a daily basis, Jr. seems to be the topic for both fans and non-fans of his. I can certainly understand his fans being concerned but why all of the non-fans? I don't see the same concern for any other driver. :beerbang:

Anyhow, here's your average from 04-09.....

Rank Driver (active drivers in Bold) Average finish Races
1 Jimmie Johnson 11.297 192
2 Tony Stewart 12.766 192
3 Jeff Gordon 12.979 192
4 Carl Edwards 13.781 169
5 Denny Hamlin 14.000 127
6 Mark Martin 14.089 168
7 Matt Kenseth 14.193 192
8 Kevin Harvick 15.297 192
9 Jeff Burton 15.667 192
10 Dale Earnhardt, Jr. 16.109 192
11 Clint Bowyer 16.207 121
12 Greg Biffle 16.229 192
13 Kyle Busch 16.482 162
14 Kurt Busch 16.595 190
15 Ryan Newman 17.990 192
16 Kasey Kahne 18.766 192
17 Jamie McMurray 19.338 192
18 Martin Truex, Jr. 19.388 129
19 Casey Mears 20.526 192
20 Brian Vickers 20.894 179
21 Bobby Labonte 21.188 192
22 Elliott Sadler 21.307 192
23 Dale Jarrett 21.832 137
24 Jeremy Mayfield 22.371 124
25 Ricky Rudd 22.563 103
 
As I said before Ray put her in cars that could have lapped the field at some of the tracks she ran. I am speaking of her on track performance and not the other things that happened.
 
Camp65 said:
As I said before Ray put her in cars that could have lapped the field at some of the tracks she ran. I am speaking of her on track performance and not the other things that happened.
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Sorry, I must be in the wrong thread. I thought this thread was on the expectations of the #88 team. I'll have to go look for that one. :beerbang:
 
Oh, that was on the Danica thread last night...sorry about that.
 
Camp65 said:
He already tarnished himself with Erin Crocker.
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What a stupid statement, do you think Ray E was the first or only man to be going through a divorce that has entered into a relationship with a younger woman?
What the heck does that have to do with his CC chiefs abilities, or accomplishments achieved?

Besides ........


I don't think he was tarnishing himself, he was removing the tarnish.
 
Ray has said repeatedly that he's not interested in being a crew chief again, but he's also said with a sly laugh that the only team he could be enticed to return to is the 24 team. I think he means A LOT of money. He also said he wouldn't mind working for Hendrick in another capacity, but the $$$ would have to be enough. I doubt we'll see Ray go to Junior's team. I agree it will have to be someone with more current experience either as a crew chief or a car chief.

The bottom line is, Junior has to be willing to work as a TEAM with the other Hendrick drivers and be a team player as far as listening to his crew chief and not flipping out like he has at Tony Jr. and making some of his own calls or at least, wanting some of his own calls.

Bascially it's on Junior to see whether he can improve or not. It depends on how much he wants it.

As far as the set ups - They all share information, something Tony Jr. hasn't been used to doing and he is also the only CC w/o an engineering degree of some sort. None of the guys run the exact same set-up. Jeff and Jimmie have different driving styles and they can't just switch cars and get the same results.

I'm hopeful Junior can turn it around and for the Hendrick organization, I hope he does. We're not going to see him winning races immediately. I expect some improvement. Also, don't be surprised if there is another change if this CC/driver relationship doesn't click.

Rick has the most popular driver in his organization and it's to his benefit to have him do well. That's why it's been ridiculous with the conspiracy theories that Junior has been given lesser equipment than the other three. It makes me laugh because last year when Jeff didn't win, there were people complaining that all the "good stuff" was going to the 48 team.

Basically it's, "How bad does Junior want to win."
 
jep88fan said:
What are your honest and realistic expectations of the 88 team now?

Plus after listening to his short interview, it sounded like he wasn't too happy with the decision.
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Doesn't this answer the question? At least for the short run. If he's not happy with the decision wouldn't that be a distraction? If he's not happy maybe he hangs up his firesuit and walks away.
One can only hope... :)
 
BP .. stop making me laugh. People are looking at me weird out here in the waiting office at the dentist. LOL :D
 
Eagle1 said:
What a stupid statement, do you think Ray E was the first or only man to be going through a divorce that has entered into a relationship with a younger woman?
What the heck does that have to do with his CC chiefs abilities, or accomplishments achieved?

Besides ........


I don't think he was tarnishing himself, he was removing the tarnish.
Click to expand...

Please read carefully...

As I said before Ray put her in cars that could have lapped the field at some of the tracks she ran. I am speaking of her on track performance and not the other things that happened.

What part of that dont you understand?

He was a great CC and car owner in the past.

Rays reputation was damaged because of the thought that whoever sits in his cars can win. The media made her up too be the next Jeff Gordon because she was in his cars. Of course that is ridiculous but that is how the media works... they have too have something to talk about. She was the center piece of every race broadcast and in the end the media looked foolish. He was a great CC in the past. With her in his equipment it was a great story but she never did deliver the results that was expected. It is the job of the CC to adapt the equipment to the drivers liking. When that doesnt happen the CC takes the blame and usually is the fall guy. In this case he was calling all the shots here and when things did not work out he pulled the plug on it and the driver took the fall. I think things could have worked out for her if the off track stuff did not happen. She has the talent.

Know one knows evertything that went on off the track with thise two and really I could not care less.
 
I was speaking only of three wins in five years. And I am still not sure if his win at Michigan last year should count. I always understood the rule book to say you cannot pass the pace car under a yellow flag...

dpkimmel2001 said:
You may have to limit your range to a more recent period of time. Over the past five years, he's 10th on the list of average finish @ 16.109. That's puts him in some pretty good company. Maybe you need to change your range to the last couple of years. :D

On a daily basis, Jr. seems to be the topic for both fans and non-fans of his. I can certainly understand his fans being concerned but why all of the non-fans? I don't see the same concern for any other driver. :beerbang:

Anyhow, here's your average from 04-09.....

Rank Driver (active drivers in Bold) Average finish Races
1 Jimmie Johnson 11.297 192
2 Tony Stewart 12.766 192
3 Jeff Gordon 12.979 192
4 Carl Edwards 13.781 169
5 Denny Hamlin 14.000 127
6 Mark Martin 14.089 168
7 Matt Kenseth 14.193 192
8 Kevin Harvick 15.297 192
9 Jeff Burton 15.667 192
10 Dale Earnhardt, Jr. 16.109 192
11 Clint Bowyer 16.207 121
12 Greg Biffle 16.229 192
13 Kyle Busch 16.482 162
14 Kurt Busch 16.595 190
15 Ryan Newman 17.990 192
16 Kasey Kahne 18.766 192
17 Jamie McMurray 19.338 192
18 Martin Truex, Jr. 19.388 129
19 Casey Mears 20.526 192
20 Brian Vickers 20.894 179
21 Bobby Labonte 21.188 192
22 Elliott Sadler 21.307 192
23 Dale Jarrett 21.832 137
24 Jeremy Mayfield 22.371 124
25 Ricky Rudd 22.563 103
Click to expand...
 
Camp65 said:
Please read carefully...

As I said before Ray put her in cars that could have lapped the field at some of the tracks she ran. I am speaking of her on track performance and not the other things that happened.

What part of that dont you understand?

He was a great CC and car owner in the past.

Rays reputation was damaged because of the thought that whoever sits in his cars can win. The media made her up too be the next Jeff Gordon because she was in his cars. Of course that is ridiculous but that is how the media works... they have too have something to talk about. She was the center piece of every race broadcast and in the end the media looked foolish. He was a great CC in the past. With her in his equipment it was a great story but she never did deliver the results that was expected. It is the job of the CC to adapt the equipment to the drivers liking. When that doesnt happen the CC takes the blame and usually is the fall guy. In this case he was calling all the shots here and when things did not work out he pulled the plug on it and the driver took the fall. I think things could have worked out for her if the off track stuff did not happen. She has the talent.

Know one knows evertything that went on off the track with thise two and really I could not care less.
Click to expand...




Please read VERY carefully ... YOU ..... DID .... NOT .... POST .... THAT ...... IN ...... THIS ...... THREAD!!

I replied to the post and statement you made here in this thread. I had not, and am not required to search through other threads to see what other dumb stuff you may have wrote.

So to quote you ........ " What part of that dont you understand?"

BTW since you posted that I have gone and read that post. I understand that is your opinion and you are entitled to it, I would never try to convince you different. However IMHO that is an equally as dumb a statement, but getting a better idea of your thought process don't feel it's worth responding to.
 
I think this gives them a little breathing room from expectations. People will give them a grace period to get accustomed to one another. But, there will be even more pressure once that period passes, say next year.
 
Benevolent One said:
I think this gives them a little breathing room from expectations. People will give them a grace period to get accustomed to one another. But, there will be even more pressure once that period passes, say next year.
Click to expand...

Tony did good right out of the box this year
 
What went wrong? Dale Jr. doesn't know for certain
'I'm the one who'll answer how I lived up to expectations'
By David Caraviello, NASCAR.COM
May 29, 2009
08:22 PM EDT
DOVER, Del. -- The question lingers over Dale Earnhardt Jr.'s race team like the heavy, overcast clouds hung over Dover International Speedway on Friday. Why didn't it work? Not even the driver knows for certain.

Car owner Rick Hendrick separated Earnhardt and crew chief Tony Eury Jr. on Thursday, after a sluggish start to the 2009 season that included a 40th-place run at Charlotte and a 19th-place standing in points. On Friday, Earnhardt came to the Monster Mile with a fill-in crew chief for Sunday, an interim crew chief set to take over at Pocono, and a chassis engineer dedicated solely to reversing the fortunes of his No. 88 car. What he didn't have was an answer for why two tightly knit cousins who got off to a fast start at Hendrick and won a race at Michigan last year couldn't produce sustained results.

"There really isn't one thing you can put your finger on as to why it didn't work," Earnhardt said. "I'm not hiding any blame from anyone. I take full responsibility for making some mistakes along the way, especially this year. We haven't been on our game. I definitely haven't been on my game. I shoulder any amount of responsibility that's necessary and that everybody feels is fair for the fact that we didn't make this work. I don't have the urge to point fingers in any one direction, and I can't put my finger on any particular instance or reason that it didn't work. But we were definitely trying our hardest. We really were. We had a lot of meetings and talked it out and talked it out and tried to get a better approach each weekend. We changed a lot of things about how we set the cars up and everything. We just kept going backward."

Finishing two laps down in Monday's rain-delayed Coca-Cola 600 was the final straw. Eury was moved into a research and development role, while general manager Brian Whitesell will call the shots for the No. 88 at Dover. Former R&D crew chief Lance McGrew will assume the crew chief role on an interim basis next week at Pocono. Effort, teammate Jimmie Johnson said, was never an issue.

"I've been impressed by both Juniors. Dale Jr. is on time to these meetings -- and that's a pretty big statement, on a funny note," said the three-time defending series champion. "One time we came in the truck, and he had food and drinks for us set up. So all that being on the funny side. But on a real note, I've seen a great commitment out of both of them. Before they worked at Hendrick, the rumors were around that maybe there isn't the focus or the commitment, and all that stuff is BS. Both of those guys are extremely committed and extremely focused on what they're doing. And that's what makes this so tough. When the results aren't there and the effort is there, it is a hard world to live in. And they're both doing all that they can, and sometimes you have to shake things up, and that's what's going on right now."

Eury has worked with Earnhardt as either crew chief or car chief in every season but one since the duo broke into NASCAR's highest level with Dale Earnhardt Inc. in 2000. They came to Hendrick as a package deal, with Eury preceding his cousin by a few months to lay the groundwork for the No. 88 program. And they got off to an impressive start, running in the top three in points for the first third of last season, and snapping Earnhardt's 76-race winless streak with a victory at Michigan.

But this season has brought a mixture of pit-road mistakes and mediocre finishes that has the big-sponsor, high-profile No. 88 team in critical danger of missing NASCAR's year-end playoff. Earnhardt said he didn't anticipate the breakup -- he and Eury were trying to stay positive and turn their season around, he said, and they didn't want to dwell on a potential split. But when Hendrick delivered his decision, Earnhardt didn't fight it.

"I didn't really try to persuade Rick one way or the other," Earnhardt said. "I had been in this situation before with Tony Jr., and I had a little bit more of an influence in which direction we ended up going. I didn't think I needed to do that this time. I didn't even want to be in a situation to persuade anybody one way or the other, mainly because Rick and all the people that work at Hendrick ... know more about that team than I do. Know the history of the team, know the employees, know what methods have worked in the past, and I really wanted them to make any kind of decision on a clear head. I thought if I were to interject one way or the other, it wasn't going to help. Me and Tony Jr. both just told Rick, you do whatever you want to do. It's your business, it's your company, and we'll definitely support whichever direction you go."

For Earnhardt, the breakup brings no relief, only disappointment over what he and his cousin were unable to accomplish -- disappointment that he said may take weeks or months to get over. Eury was more like a brother to him than a first cousin, and it showed in both the fiery arguments they had over the radio and the sheer joy they took in being at the race track together. But Eury was also a popular target of derision among the more fanatical citizens of Junior Nation, who blamed the crew chief for most of the No. 88 team's ills.

Now, with Eury out of the picture, Earnhardt knows the onus falls squarely on him.

"Most of the people have always been on Tony Jr.'s case and never really pointed the finger at me throughout the season. Eventually, the only person that will have to answer to my success is me," Earnhardt said.

"Whether that's today and from here on forward, I don't know. But eventually, I'm going to have to be the one that's going to have to answer to the fact of, how much did I live up to my father's name and how much did I live up to his wins and everything he accomplished, how much did I live up to everyone else's expectations and all my fans' and the media's expectations. Obviously, when you put yourself at Hendrick Motorsports, you're in the best equipment and you should win races. If you don't, it sort of makes for a hard argument that you had any business being there in the first place. We've got to work hard over the next six months to try and give ourselves that argument and move forward. And I think we can do that."

Two months ago at Bristol, when the questions over the No. 88 team's direction were beginning to increase in volume, Earnhardt said there were two sides to racing -- the business side, which revolved around teams and sponsors and performance, and the enjoyable side, which centered on going to the track with friends, just as he had in his late model days. Back then, he was searching for some combination of those two worlds. Now, he's beginning to realize such a thing may not be possible.

"I think that other, fun side went out the window a couple of months ago," Earnhardt said with a slight laugh. "My focus right now is strictly on being ridiculously professional, in every approach, toward the car, toward all the people I'm working with. I've taken every serious bone I've got and put them together to try and repair this situation and be a part of the solution to the problem. It definitely is going to require all the focus I have and all the motivation and all the determination I have to get it turning in the right direction."

At least at the race track, that direction won't include Eury. But even in his absence Friday, the former crew chief was still around -- he had set up the cars that the No. 88 team brought to Dover. That work was done before Hendrick reassigned him to the research and development role.

"I'm really glad Tony Jr. chose to stay with Rick, because Rick thinks a lot of Tony Jr. and cares a lot about him," Earnhardt said. "I really feel like Tony Jr. is a great asset to any race team or organization, and he'll do great things. I've always said that about him, and maybe we just ain't meant to do them together."
 
My expectations...hmmmm. Junior will be fired at the end of season and replaced with Danica.


Just kidding y'all.

:growl::growl::growl:

Rick Hendrick will not give up on Junior like he did on Kyle Busch. Busch had talent as we see now, but Rick is not a baby sitter. He's a groomer.

Another thing I have not heard people say is the fact that the 88 was basically the 25 car. With exceptions to Tim Richmond and Jerry Nadeau, that car has never been worth a flip. I was surprised Ken Schrader stayed in it as long as he did, with very little to show for his time. I remember a 600 in the 25 Bud car, he was on a rail. I was cheering for the veteran to win, when a little puff of smoke out the pipes became a hand grenaded engine. Many will think I am crazy for saying this, but that car is Jinxed.
 
Who knows what will happen with the 88. This is what I thought should have happened from day 1 at HMS. Don't forget Jeff Gordon won 2 of 7 races that Whitsell was his crew chief and Rex Stump was the mastermind behind the T-Rex car.
 
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