Finch gets smacked with bigger penalty by appeals board...

so you appeal something...and then they slap you with more of a fine?...nascar is crooked
 
did anyone really think he would win the appeal ? there is something very fishey with this one. i would still like to know why the guy that found it, not the guy that let it slip through got fired.
 
oh i didnt think they would win the appeal...but they have already been punished once..you shouldnt be punished twice for the same crime.
 
de7xwcc said:
did anyone really think he would win the appeal ? there is something very fishey with this one. i would still like to know why the guy that found it, not the guy that let it slip through got fired.
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Was it different inspectors? I assumed it was the same guy thus the firing. The way it sounded all you had to do was raise the hood and if you knew anything about cars at all you would have seen the difference. No real tech knowledge was needed. Most strange...
 
did they fire a nascar offical for letting this slip through or something?
 
JMO, but Nascar has made it VERY clear that cheating WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.
This is just an affirmation.
 
i understand cheating will not be tolerated....but you cant punish someone twice for the same crime.

thats like if i robbed a store...and was sentenced to 10 years in prison and when i appealed it, they put another 10 years on my sentence...you cant do that

what i was asking however though...did i read that a nascar offical get fired for this?
 
Finch called this one. He said before the appeal that if he appealed this that he would get a bigger fine. The man has been a thorn in NASCAR's side for many years. Me thinks they would like to see him get out of the racing business. BTW, this isn't something that is only happening in the upper echelons of NASCAR. Smaller tracks that are sanctioned by NASCAR get the same sort of treatment. You just don't try to buck the system, right or wrong.
 
thats like if i robbed a store...and was sentenced to 10 years in prison and when i appealed it, they put another 10 years on my sentence...you cant do that
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Actually, that does happen sometimes in court.
 
We will probably never know exactly why an official was fired. But he/she was fired so it must have been something NASCAR thought was the necessary thing to do. It could be something so simple as the official having a poor working knowledge of his/her job or complicated like maybe he/she was in collusion with the Finch group in the cheating. People get fired for big and little things every day in private businesses........NASCAR is a private business.

James Finch was in dreamland by trying to appeal this..........the quote below made that clear to me:

In upholding the penalty the commission noted, "The modifications to the carburetor represented an unequivocal and substantial violation of the rules. The onus is on the entrant to present a car that is legal at all times. The onus is not on NASCAR to detect every rules violation at every inspection.
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On getting additional fines during the appeal. I can imagine a number of things that would cause that. More evidence that it was even more blatant than originally thought, or maybe Finch lost his temper and called the panel a lovely bunch of expletives deleted. It doesn't matter.......it happened. But, I really don't think an analogy of being convicted of a crime and getting 10 years then having another 10 years tacked on during your appeal works in this case. First, the appeals panel is not a criminal appeals court.........and the rules violation is not a crime like burglary or something. It's a civil thing. And civil courts work a little differently than criminal courts.

And just so y'all know..............I can only think of one other owner in the NASCAR series I would rather see get all this piled on them!! I think it's funny as hell!!! :D
 
Woody Neese was the official fired over the incident. Neese was not the official who checked the carburetor on opening day inspection. Neese was involved in the post-race inspection process. Neese declined requests for comment.
 
it all seems very, very strange. Why does nascar have it out for Finch anyway?
 
Ive worked for Ricky Rudd and Geoff Bodine, while working in the shops some of the guys that had been in the sport for 20-30 years and so on would tell their stories. Usually pretty good stories, but they would also say that if Nascar didn’t want someone in the sport they would get them out…They had seen it before and it still happens. Maybe they are trying to get him out of the sport. Why was the carb not found during pre race inspections? Why did Nascar let them run with an unapproved carb and then disqualify them from the race and then add more to the fine after the appeal?

Why do people on this board hate James Finch….just curious…..im not aware of him being a jack ass at anytime?..then again I don’t follow the Busch series as much as I should.
 
right, they all seem to hate him, yet I don't understand why they hate him, I've not been a fan for a super long time, so I don't really know. Can anyone enlighten me as to why NASCAR has such a strong disdain for the man?
 
I doubt anyone on this board knows what's in NASCAR's mind about James Finch. And no one can say with any authority at all that NASCAR hates James Finch and are out to get him. It's all speculation. But I can't figure out why people might be in an uproar over Finch being fined heavily for such a blatant attempt at cheating (that extra fine tacked on still isn't enough in my mind). It's team owners like James Finch that have a very negative impact on the sport if not dealt with very harshly........expulsion from any NASCAR series for life would be more in line with what he did (my opinion).

Now for a little speculation of my own. James Finch allowed his team to cheat..........very blatantly too. James Finch appealed the penalties imposed because he thought they were too harsh for his little crime and apparently went in with an attitude. I can think of no reasonable explanation for taking a carburetor too large to race with at a series event.........it's an "in your face" sort of thing. I would imagine the NASCAR panel picked up on that attitude and tacked on some more punishment for Mr Finch to chew on for a bit. Sometimes the best tact is a great big "I'm sorry", take your lumps and move on. Doesn't sound to me like Finch took that tact...........so he pays a little more. And, yeah, it would not surprise me at all if it turns out that NASCAR does not like him much now...........and they may try to get him out of the series. I know I would if I were the one with the final word. You cheat against me and don't own up to it and assure me it will never happen again..........you're done. No second chances.
 
Oh. But, like I said, I don't have a working knowledge of Finch's past in the sport, does anyone know a more detailed history of his transgressions?
 
Does that make a difference? If what he did was a first time transgression, should he be treated differently? Say, I padded my time card to cheat my employer and got caught the very first time I did it.........should I get my wrist slapped or should I get fired? It's about that simple. I don't like James Finch for other reasons that date back about 3 or 4 years but I really don't have anything to enlighten you with concerning him and NASCAR.

I suppose, if you were really interested enough, you could do some research. He's been an owner in the Busch series for a few years........more than 5 anyway.
 
I am going to try and post an answer to this, but keep in mind all, that I've put away a bottle of fine wine and as such, my mind is going where it wants to go... not to mention that my typing skils will be a bit loose to say the least. So, having said all that, here goes....

First off, I'm not a fan of Finch or any of his sponsors (actually, I'm not fully aware of who his sponsors are at the moment). Secondly, all of my opinons are base totally upon what I've read in the papers and on the net, so I have no first hand knowledge of what has been going on. Thirdly, I have friends who are owners of cars who race in NASCAR sanctioned events, and though those events aren't anythig close to NEXTEL Cup events, they are still subject to the same rules. NASCAR is funny that way, what is good for the Cuppers is good for the Saturday nighters.

I'll give NASCAR a pass on this one because they are trying to be stable in what they are and have been doing. As to this case, it's a case of who did what behind who's barn. So, what do I mean about that statement? That's the holy grail question. As someone who knows the way they work, the answer to this one is very simple, James, you got caught and they don't like you.

Here's what happened, and this is normal. Finch, along with many other teams, presented their cars for inspection and said cars were passed. Now, if your're a local driver and you have a great car and believe that you have an advantage because of your own skill, but you find out that on the track, you are totally wiped out by another car, you decide to protest the finish order. I would venture to say that all the sanctioning bodies have their own proceedures for tackling a protest, and almost without an exception, if a protester loses, the monies that were collected will be split among the team that was disputed and the sanctioning body, i.e. NASCAR. Finch says that his car and the carburetor in question was okayed by NASCAR. Therein lies the problem. Sorta...hell, just like the IRS, NASCAR can inspect and pass a car, but that doesn't mean that the car is legit. As an old friend of mine who used to own a Busch team would say, "you can try to read their minds, but if you miss, they'll tell you point blank". Finch's problem is that he thought that since they didn't disqualify his carburetor at qualifying or a race, then it must be okay, even if it doesn't fit the regulations at the time. I don't agree on raising the fine, but James Finch is such a thorn in the side of NASCAR and they know it that it's only predicticable that they would uphold the fine but raise it as well. He can still appeal this action to the "commisioner of NASCAR", but that guy is ove 80 years old and is only holding an honorary position. The next step is to appeal to me. :) Oh yeah, I'm a bit younger. :)
 
I heard them say on INNC (I think) the last time Finch appealed his peanalty was increased too. I don't know that for sure, I don't remember and I'm to damn lazy to research it, but if that is true it would appear that NASCAR does hold some kind of grudge against the guy.
 
DEW, don't take offense, I'm not defending the guy or anything, I don't care if its first offense or twentieth offense, I just want to know why he's such a thorn in the side of nascar. I suppose from what buck said, (thank you, btw) that he's been pulling this kind of crap for awhile...kind of taking the competitive advantage thing over the edge too much and too often...resulting in NASCAR getting tired of dealing with his crap. I guess they just need to bite the bullet and bar him or something. I just find this situation to be interesting. I can understand the fine raising thing too, kind of like, "Look, we put up with enough of your crap, when you try to call bull on us when its something you did, you have to pay the price" which is cool with me. You know, if you pay the speeding ticket, its one price, but if you go to court and you lose, it costs a buttload more.
I really can't respect anyone who would hire Johnny Sauter anyway, so I'd be satisfied to see him go. Did Benson's car (when he won the pole last year) have an illegal shock or something? And didn't benson suddenly quit in the middle of the season?
 
If we knew why Woody Neese was fired that may explain some of this...
 
Yes. According to one of my sources the carburetor was switched after pre-race inspection and the official didn't notice the switch. It was a Cup and not a Busch carb. Woody let in slide in the post race and got caught. The carbs are not similar in size or appearance.
 
it got switched after pre race and before the race? they were pretty sly then..cause as soon as pre race inspection is done the cars go straight to the starting grid.
 
Yeah how would they do that with the whole impound procedure? You'd figure there were more in on it if that were the case.
 
I was told that the Busch carb was presented to the official who signed off on it and then he was distracted while the Cup carb was installed. And, that Sauter did not know anything about it. No one knows why Neese let it slide...
 
Sauter: "Say Joe, this thing sure has great throttle response"

Shear: "10-4" "Time to pit for gas"

Sauter: "Gas? What the hell is it with this thing? The mileage we are getting sucks! What kinda jets to we have in this thing?"

Shear: "Johnny your breaking up. Sorry can not hear you" crackle crackle.
 
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