For the Gordon fans and detractors alike.......

Whizzer

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For those who other like or hate Jiffy Gordon, this was on another racing website thread. Sure makes sense to me.

http://www.marinij.com/Stories/0,1413,234~...1462534,00.html

Sorry, but I do not know how to paste so all you need do is click on the address.

After reading this article, it makes Jiffy seem more down to earth than so many are willing to give him credit for being in light of what is taking place and accepting it. It seems to explain it better.
Many die-hard NASCAR fans do not handle the situation of change well, as pointed out in the article, especially the part about the whiskey, and a assesment in the latest edition of Speedway Illustrated on what Jiffy Gordon is really like when people get the chance to know him. No sales pitch here or accolades for Gordon.
He set new standards in bringing NASCAR to the front, riding on the exact same path Dale, Sr. was on in the world of sponsors and products.
Jiffy does have one thing going for him here too, he never advertised men's perfume. I know, I know, it is called cologne by Dale, Jr., supporters, but it is still perfume for men with a fancy name. Putting a different color bow on the package doesn't change the contents. All along the same lines of calling hot dogs, tube steaks. Fancy name, same thing, different day. :D
 
good article, but I disagree with one thing, Gordon did come from sprint cars but, he was handed a championship team when he came into Nascar.
 
Originally posted by bowtie@Jun 19 2003, 09:08 AM
good article, but I disagree with one thing, Gordon did come from sprint cars but, he was handed a championship team when he came into Nascar.
...and Jr. was handed second rate equipment?
 
Originally posted by racerx11+Jun 19 2003, 09:23 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (racerx11 @ Jun 19 2003, 09:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--bowtie@Jun 19 2003, 09:08 AM
good article, but I disagree with one thing, Gordon did come from sprint cars but, he was handed a championship team when he came into Nascar.
...and Jr. was handed second rate equipment? [/b][/quote]
That is a good point. Drivers who do well all the time before NASCAR...most likely will get picked up by one of the better teams.
 
Originally posted by bowtie@Jun 19 2003, 09:08 AM
good article, but I disagree with one thing, Gordon did come from sprint cars but, he was handed a championship team when he came into Nascar.
I didn't know that the 24 car had won a championship before Jeff Gordon took the wheel. hmmmm.
 
Originally posted by majestyx+Jun 19 2003, 09:37 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (majestyx @ Jun 19 2003, 09:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--bowtie@Jun 19 2003, 09:08 AM
good article, but I disagree with one thing, Gordon did come from sprint cars but, he was handed a championship team when he came into Nascar.
I didn't know that the 24 car had won a championship before Jeff Gordon took the wheel. hmmmm. [/b][/quote]
I didn't say that it did but it was championshipship caliber team when Gordon set his butt in the seat the first time.
 
Originally posted by racerx11@Jun 19 2003, 09:23 AM

...and Jr. was handed second rate equipment?
Did I say Jr's was second rate? I never said anything about Jr's equipment, my comment was about Gordon's equipment.
 
Originally posted by majestyx@Jun 19 2003, 09:37 AM

I didn't know that the 24 car had won a championship before Jeff Gordon took the wheel. hmmmm.
Did the #8? hmmmm
 
Originally posted by bowtie@Jun 19 2003, 09:08 AM
good article, but I disagree with one thing, Gordon did come from sprint cars but, he was handed a championship team when he came into Nascar.
This comment implies to me that Gordon won because he had better equipment than all the rest.

I will claim that JR has had the same quality equipment as Gordon and with the exception of the plate tracks, has had far less success.
 
Originally posted by bowtie@Jun 19 2003, 02:08 PM
good article, but I disagree with one thing, Gordon did come from sprint cars but, he was handed a championship team when he came into Nascar.
Sorry, but the team was not a championship team when Jiffy got the ride. The combination of Ray Evernham, the "Rainbow Warriors" and Jiffy Gordon made it a championship team.
No one should even think of suggesting the equipment was not first class all the way, but if first class equipment were all that made a champion, you wouldn't need a supercalifragilistic driver. Any average driver could do the job, sorta like racing at a restrictor plate track where more one time only winners emerge. A fluke for those "one time Charlies", not an overabundance of talent.

Just what exactly is a "championship team" anyway? A team like Junior's? Or Kevin Harvick's? Harvick is a situation where a driver was handed a proven winning team. But that does not guarantee a championship or multiple wins. Morgan-McLure was a proven championship team, until Ernie Irvan left but what have they done lately?
Without the complete package, the pieces do not fit into place. With Gordon, Evernham, the crew and shop team combined, they fit like a Mensa puzzle. But it didn't happen overnight. :cheers:
 
The writer states that "he came from a sprint car background and was not handed a championship team." I disagree with that statement. The way I see it is that Ray Evernham and the rainbow warriors are the team in question and were championship caliber. I am not bashing Gordon in any way and I am not taking away from his driving ability, but without some two tire calls by Ray and some lightning fast pitstops by the "Warriors" Gordon may not have won as many races as he did. Ray was calling two tires at the time in our sport when that was unheard of. All ot the older racers wanted four tires every time they cam to the pits because "four tires were faster than two." The Rainbow Warriors" set the pace for pitstops in Nascar, They stepped up to the plate and consistantly knocked out quicker stops than his competitors. The other teams have caught up to that, even lower funded teams are putting their drivers in a position to win races now, hence more race winners in a single season and not so many multi-race winners. Maybe I didn't completely make myself understood with the statement so call off the dogs, I am not talking bad about the "Wonderboy" so back off.
 
If I stepped you your toes bowtie, I apologize. My point was that the way your statement read to me, that there was a championship before Jeff Gordon took the wheel of the 24 car. The combination of all of the individuals working as a TEAM (ie Gordon, Evernham, Crew, Car Builders, etc) made the team a championship team. Nothing was given to them. They EARNED every bit of their success. Always remember, there is no I in Team. :cheers:
 
i don't think jr owes jg a thing,

I will take nothing away from jg he has done alot for the sport, but to say jr owes him,
i think not, jr owes his old man.
 
Exactly Majestyx, but when it was put together Rick Hendrick put together a championship team, anything else was unacceptable, that was my point. He was smart enough to know and has been around the sport long enough to know that Ray Evernham could get it done. I'm sure Jeff was the only question because of age and lack on experience, and we all know how that went. :D
You didn't step on my toes but my post had nothing to do with Jr's equipment or ability, my statement was about Jeff and his team. If Jeff wasn't put into a championship team he would not be a four time champ.

Drinks are on me. :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
 
Well,well,well...this is interesting!

First Whizzer, the article was a bit surprising in a few ways.But it is so fun watching Bowtie argue that I forgot what they were!

Second,rarely to I agree with my old buddy Bowtie....but this is one of them.Hendrick motorsports was a force before Gordon ever came along.Everyone remembers Tim Richmond.Refered to among the non-NASCAR blinded as the 'failed JeffGordon experiment'.The seat was ready and pre-approved before Jeff ever stabbed Davis and Ford.

Third...Gordon fans and Earnhardt Sr./Jr. fans are very similiar in their over-sensitivity.I love that!!! :lol:

And last:

You Earnhardt/Gordon fans fight amongst yourself while Matt and Roush walk off with the title! :cheers:
 
Originally posted by 97forever@Jun 19 2003, 01:40 PM


Second,rarely to I agree with my old buddy Bowtie....but this is one of them.
I couldn't wait until you got here. OLE' BUDDY cheers. :cheers: :cheers:
 
You have to play with the hand you've been dealt. I did and you see what happened. It was all I could do to keep them off until you got here. :wacko:
 
I know buddy....but for God's sake,that Whizzer is a TOUGH one,man.Old,smart and mean as the devil with a hangnail!
Actually you did pretty well on your own....now let's just try not to provoke him further!!Maybe he won't even see these few exchanges! :lol: :lol:
 
Originally posted by 97forever@Jun 19 2003, 02:05 PM

Actually you did pretty well on your own
I don't quite know how to take that. :huh:

but thanks.
 
I can't believe it !!!! I made a faux paux and nobody caught it?? GEEZ, youse guys are laying down on the job.

97Forever, where did the Gordon stabbed Davis thing come rom.That is such a well documented story I thought all the mystique had been cleared up by now by the anti-Gordon clique.

If I recall the first portion of the discussion, Bowtie felt Jiffy Gordon stepped into a championship car. My question is, what made it a championship car? Tim Richmond drove the 25 that went to Schrader, not Gordon. In seeking definition of what Bowtie considers being "handed a championship team", he implies the 24 team was already a championship winner when Jiffy stepped aboard. Not so. Jiffy drove his first race on November 14, 1992, at Atlanta. I remember this date as it was Richard Petty's last race culminated by his ending his career by going out in flames. All the hoopla surrounding Petty and his last race and Gordon in his first race was overwhelming to say the least.

The 24 team was foumulated when Gordon signed on with Hendrick Racing. Ray Evernham was hired at the behest of Jiffy, not Rick Hendrick. The championship quality began then, not before. :D
 
Originally posted by majestyx+Jun 19 2003, 10:37 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (majestyx @ Jun 19 2003, 10:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--bowtie@Jun 19 2003, 09:08 AM
good article, but I disagree with one thing, Gordon did come from sprint cars but, he was handed a championship team when he came into Nascar.
I didn't know that the 24 car had won a championship before Jeff Gordon took the wheel. hmmmm. [/b][/quote]
LMFAO,the #24 team didn't even one single win before Jeff Gordon got there!!! ;) :D
 
Welcome back Whiz!

Ok,one at a time,for those who may not know the story:

Davis and Gordon is a big sticking point amongst the anti-Gordon crowd,of which I don't really consider myself by the way.But their are a few interesting points about the whole matter that make Jeff seem,if true, a little less than honorable.The way I understand it---and this is from Bill Davis' point of view, is that a verbal agreement,a gentlemans agreement was made between three parties:Ford Racing,Bill Davis Racing and Gordon himself.Now all of this is well documented,of course...the plan to take the driver and team of the old Baby Ruth Ford and move it up to the Cup level....with Gordon as the driver.Ford had been a 'mentor' of sorts to Jeff at various times in his young career,and Davis already had a history of 'conflict' with the Martin's of Arkansas(Mark and Julian).

Now what occured next depends on one's pre-conceived notions of Gordon as much as anything else.Attemptes to sanitize the whole affair have distorted what was published back when it occured.In a nutshell,Hendrick,with Chevy's backing,made Jeff an offer he couldnt refuse...and Gordon flew.Leaving Ford and Davis reeling a bit.(Kyle Busch syndrome!History repeats)Of course shortly thereafter BDR and Bobby Labonte made the move to Cup...mainly to thwart the Gordon threat.Too little and too soon.Davis failed.The rest is history....or to be more accurate the rest is REVISIONIST history.With an honorable young driver doing what he had to do,on the one hand,OR,biting the hand that fed him on the other.Flip a coin.

Now that should help set the stage for the second part of the debate:The car that Gordon stepped into.I am of the opinion that Jeff Gordon,Ford killer,was put into the absolute best available leading edge car of any 'rookie' driver in history.The best financed and the best researched and tested,prepared and established.In other words a car that was designed and engineered to carry Jeff forward...with a LOT more factory support and backing than any car before or since.

A 'championship' car?Semantics and word games.The car Jeff was dropped into was designed and intended to be that from the start,REGARDLESS of whether or not the car had won a championship prior to Gordon...it certainly was intended to be a top contender from the start.Of course,Richmond DID drive the #25 rather than the #24...but the philosophy of the two cars/teams was the same.Take the Hendrick/Chevy R&D department(and a former employ serving as NASCAR inspector)and beat the Fords.Oh yeah...and beat Earnhardt while you are at it!

Now some can call this doing their homework,some can say it is excactly the GOAL of any team to have the ride be a contender from the start.But the Gordon/Evernham team took it a bit further.The driver picked the crew chief,the factory had vested interest in the driver,the dollar amount was incredible for a 'start-up' team,etc.The fact is this team was pre-determined from the very start to do excactly what it has done:Take Nascar by storm and generate interest in the sport at the same time.Tim Richmond and project 'demographic expansion' may have failed due to Tim's sad death,but project JeffGordon didn't.

A few facts,a little speculation....... :lol:
 
Opportunities arise, doors open and those alert know when to seize the moment. As I understand it, both Ford and Bill Davis Racing failed to have the young driver under contract. Seems to me, someone dropped the ball.
 
Originally posted by peglet@Jun 19 2003, 08:26 PM
Opportunities arise, doors open and those alert know when to seize the moment. As I understand it, both Ford and Bill Davis Racing failed to have the young driver under contract. Seems to me, someone dropped the ball.
Even if BDR would have had Jeff under contract for WC, contracts are made to be broken, at least in professional sports that is.
 
And,ironically enough,almost an opposite situation to the Kyle Busch scenario.Roush apparently had Kyle under too MUCH of a contract!
 
Originally posted by 97forever@Jun 19 2003, 08:37 PM
And,ironically enough,almost an opposite situation to the Kyle Busch scenario.Roush apparently had Kyle under too MUCH of a contract!
& Nascar voided that one. :wacko:
 
I never said that the 24 was a championship winning car. But, Hendricks Motorsports has more years of R & D than alot of teams would only dream of. Think back at some of the drivers that went through Hendricks. Geoff Bodine, Ricky Rudd, D.W., and the afore mentioned Tim Richmond for example. One could say that the 24 team was destined to be a champion without Gordon or without Ray, but we will never know. Rick Hendrick and GM along with Dupont sunk more money in that team with the old dirt track saying "If you can't outrun them, outspend them" and you see the results from that in Jeff Gordon stats. Now days since big dollar sponsors are on more of the cars than ever before, and young hot shoes are climbing into big dollar cars the difference between Hendricks Motorsports and the rest of the field is shrinking. That is evident with the number of race winners in the past few years.

As for Ray being hired by Jeffy and not Hendrick, Rick still had the final say in that because Jeff was a rookie driver only, not a business partner.

and the rest they say is history. :D
 
Are you guys trying to say that noone in the world was capable of outspending Rick Hendrick? If so, that is preposterous. The goal in any business is to make the smartest investments. If I was an owner, I would do the same thing. Get the best equipment and team I could afford and then get the best driver I could afford. If others could not afford to compete, that is not my fault. Junior has been handed as good, if not better equipment and sponsor support than Jeff ever had and he still hasn't won one championship.

I think the goal of the teams is different. The 8 team is designed for marketing, the 24 was designed for winning and then marketing. If Gordon had the same success Junior has had, noone would pay any attention to him. Gordon won early and often, thus DEMANDING attention. Junior's last name makes him the marketing success he is.
 
I did not say that no one was capable of outspending Rick Hendrick, but at the time no was and he took Nascar by suprise. I agree 4x, that was very smart business and I would have done the same thing. I am definately not questioning Jr's equipment or Sponsor. When the 24 team was built in 1992 there was just a handful of teams capable of winning races much less championships and that is all different today. That is why Roush and Valvoline, Yates and Ford Motor Credit and other teams and sponsors have split since that time, owners know that to compete they have to have more money from their sponsors.
 
Originally posted by 4xchampncountin@Jun 20 2003, 06:39 AM
Junior has been handed as good, if not better equipment and sponsor support than Jeff ever had and he still hasn't won one championship.

I think the goal of the teams is different. The 8 team is designed for marketing, the 24 was designed for winning and then marketing. If Gordon had the same success Junior has had, noone would pay any attention to him. Gordon won early and often, thus DEMANDING attention. Junior's last name makes him the marketing success he is.
Comparing numbers at the same time in there career, Jeffy won 9 races and his first championship in his third year. Junior has won 7 races in his first 3 years and is challenging for a championship in his fourth year. Yes, jeffy's numbers are better, but not by much. These numbers are incredible for any driver. I think it is getting harder and harder to win races and championships. I guarentee that if you tell Greg biffle he would have 7 wins and challenge for a championship 3-4 years from now he would jump all over it.
 
The terms of a "gentlemens agreement" between FoMoCo, Davis Racing and Gordon are pure speculation although there is a general concensus there was a "gentlemans agreement" of some kind.

Rick Hendrick did not contact Jeff Gordon before finding whether or not Gordon had a contract. The contract information was provided by a Hendrick employee who knew Jiffy personally.

The reports were the so-called "gentlemens agreement" called for Davis to secure a full-time sponsor in order to give Jiffy a full-time ride in the Winston Cup Series. Davis did not have a sponsor, Ford did not step up to the plate with financial assistance and Davis either could not or would not guarantee Jeff a full-term contract in the Winston Cup Series without a sponsor.

Under these circumstances, the "gentlemans agreement" went out the window, broken when Ford did not back Davis as promised and Davis, with no sponsor or guarantee to Gordon of a contract with a Winston Cup ride, did not fulfill his part of the deal and the "gentlemens agreement" was moot.

Since this is still controversial and no one knows the terms of the original "gentlemans agreement", the uninitiated must decide for themselves who did what to whom and who broke the agreement.

But I digress as my initial thought when starting this thread was to see how fans might react after reading an article that states how Jiffy Gordon, being the most loudly booed and jeered driver in the series is compared to Junior. The article compared similarities of those who condemn Gordon for being a sellout to the DINKS, Yuppies and wine and cheese crowd, doing the tour of the "Big Apple", and making appearances on the major late night shows to Junior. The writers point being, here is Junior doing the same thing while being praised and Gordon being criticised. And what happened?? The original topic got lost in the crush. Oh well, better luck next time. :cheers:
 
I am going to admit that I just actually read the article, and IMO this writer doesn't know what he is talking about.

Quote
"Yet Little E seemingly has escaped without a scratch of nitpicking."
The writer must mean from the rest of the media, because there are plenty of Fans that have plenty to say.

Quote
"Junior has profited handsomely from the draft Gordon created by crashing through NASCAR barriers to tap into an unknown market from east to west."
Jeff was able to break that barrier, because of the success that Dale, Sr had in the so called known NASCAR market (wrangler, GoodWrench, remington, Realtree, etc).
 
Scratch either and they both bleed Chevy orange...reason enough for me not to like either! :lol: :cheers: :lol: Still a good post,Whiz.
 
Originally posted by Dinoforthe3@Jun 20 2003, 09:12 PM
I am going to admit that I just actually read the article, and IMO this writer doesn't know what he is talking about.

Quote
"Yet Little E seemingly has escaped without a scratch of nitpicking."
The writer must mean from the rest of the media, because there are plenty of Fans that have plenty to say.

Quote
"Junior has profited handsomely from the draft Gordon created by crashing through NASCAR barriers to tap into an unknown market from east to west."
Jeff was able to break that barrier, because of the success that Dale, Sr had in the so called known NASCAR market (wrangler, GoodWrench, remington, Realtree, etc).
Very good !!! And exactly the point the writer was making !!
Dale Sr. had begun to make inroads into "acceptable" untapped markets. Jeff Gordon took the entire endorsement thing to a level higher than Earnhardt, Sr. did, and Junior took it to higher levels yet. The writers point was, why was Gordon criticized by Earnhardt fans among others, for doing the same things the father and son team did.

Don't be giving Senior to much credit here as his endorsements were for fishing boats, guns, dungarees, etc., all conventional and acceptable commodities within the hardcore and redneck branches of the NASCAR community.
Gordon came on the WC scene in '92 and immediately began endorsing everything from lawnmowers to toilet paper (merely a figure of speech). Gordon was criticized by media and fans who considered him to be a sellout to the wine and cheese crowd.
Junior came on board and followed in the exact same footsteps of Gordon expanding the sponsorship into previously uncharted product areas with Drakker Noir as one example.
No back lash from the media but applause for having the intestinal fortitude to take such a "bold" step. There was plenty of backlash from
anti-Earnhardt fans, the result not the result of what Junior endorsed but because he was an Earnhardt. :mellow:
 
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